To think that Boris didn't actually want Brexit to happen

[hownottofuckup]

And that something else was afoot entirely?
Possibly with David's support, or knowledge at least.
There's been quite a bit about the divide between him and his family (not that that means much necessarily)
His propaganda for leaving was ridiculous in the extreme (£350 million a week for the NHS?)
His reaction since the results were announced
I can't help but wonder if he seriously misjudged the voting populace and this was never his intention at all. More a tactical move with a view to securing something else entirely, purely for his own personal gain.
You could never really accuse Boris of being in touch with the 'common people' after all.

I think they should scapegoat Farage, say his deliberate campaign lies = fraudulent campaigning, result void, vote again.

Of course I understand this won't happen, but before people leap on me about democratic decisions having already been made. I'm not convinced that voting on the basis of deliberate lies is especially democratic but I understand that is the broken system we have, but I'm not convinced it's the great democracy that some think we have.

How are the Leave-supporting Tories going to force it exactly? Cameron has said he's not doing it, and they have no leverage with him now he's going. Boris will have to play a very careful hand. And he's already said there's 'no rush'.

Also the vast swathes of the UK where people are absolutely adamant it needs to be started ASAP.

People genuinely want to leave! How can you just ignore their wishes and their vote? You can't and expect to be PM.

Each of the parties has more Remain-supporting MPs than Leave ones. So they can't count on winning a Commons vote over it. And it's debatable whether one is needed to invoke (or not invoke) Article 50 anyway. This is all unprecedented so totally up for grabs.

Couldn't agree more about Labour's utter failure here Dinosaurs (see also the Scottish independence referendum).

I am little concerned about the otter deterrent though, Thegirl. Otters are lovely

And thank you Elspeth for articulating what I couldn't about the knock on effect throughout Europe. I fear the remaining EU will want to make an example of us.

Agree with Elspeth, the pressure will come from within. Boris and Gove weren't the only MPs voting for leave.

Look forward to seeing Boris squirm.

Handsomegroom, otters are renowned eurosceptics, you don't deserve a vote with such ignorance about the issues.

How are the Leave-supporting Tories going to force it exactly? Cameron has said he's not doing it, and they have no leverage with him now he's going. Boris will have to play a very careful hand. And he's already said there's 'no rush'.

Exactly.

People genuinely want to leave! How can you just ignore their wishes and their vote? You can't and expect to be PM.

This is the million-dollar question/paradox that Boris, as a secret Remainer, is no doubt wrestling with as we speak.

With such a narrow victory, you're ignoring a lot of the 'wishes of the people' whichever way you jump. Plus an election can't be forced without cross party support before 2020. That gives Boris time to stall and then move towards a compromise 'look, this is now a better option!' position. If the economy has avoided disaster in the meantime, he can say it was all for the best.

Thegirlinthefireplace Surely They won't try to stop us if we ask to stay after all. Us running to them with our tail between our legs saying actually we were fools and want to stay would suit them perfectly as it would be a massive deterrent to otters and makes the EU look like saviour...

Of course. But that won't happen, since no government would be foolish enough to ignore the will of the people. So the UK has to leave the EU.

Which leads us to...

ElspethFlashman Norway is out and it's functioning. Maybe not as smoothly as the Leavers would have you believe....But it manages ok. So I imagine the EU will say "you voted to be like Norway, so we'll graciously let you have the freedom you so ardently desired".

Again, the EU would absolutely agree to this too. Do you know why? Because Norway is a member of the EEA, which means accepting every single rule in the Single Market, including free movement of persons, without having any say in making those rules

The EU would love for the UK to be part of the EEA: they'd have to follow all the same rules, and shut up forever about what those rules are.

How's that for "taking back control"?

The UK electorate has been played and fell for it, all because Boris fancied a promotion.

I'm surprised people are only realising it now.

If he'd appeared with a big grin shouting "we won, fuck off Cameron, I beat ya" you'd be saying he didn't approach the result with gravitas. Boris couldn't win whatever he did.

What Dinosaur said, many people seem to under the illusion we have already left - we haven't even given our "notice" (Article 50 of Lisbon Treaty) yet. We are still a fully fledged member of the EU at this moment in time and until that Article 50 has been triggered. We could still turn around and say we have changed our minds - they don't have to take us back - we haven't yet left. They (being the 27 other countries) will likely be majorly pissed off with us as a nation for some time (after all it is not just the UK who has seen knock on effects in 24 hours). I am not sure what the grounds are for being evicted from the EU but I don't believe this would be it - we may find ourselves in some sort of trouble, sanctions, whatever (but then again we may not but we have caused a bit of a shitstorm in Europe) - but I don't believe we can be forced out on these grounds.

Wouldn't be the first time the Tories (or any party tbf) pissed off millions by breaking a promise...

I thought I was the only one who thought he looked like he was absolutely shitting himself yesterday.

It was extremely unworthy of me yesterday, but I was pleased that he got booed and heckled leaving his house. Cheered me right up.

Boris saying "no rush" to invoke article 50 is very telling.

Surely if he was that keen on leaving the EU he would be champing at the bit for it to be invoked immediately?

I think it means that he didn't really want this to happen and is shitting himself, trying to find a non-existent way to backtrack out of a campaign he didn't really believe in but cynically joined anyway.

"we won, fuck off Cameron, I beat ya" you'd be saying he didn't approach the result with gravitas. Boris couldn't win whatever he did.

Great to see you're examining the subject with such depth.

Thegirl.

Yep quite ricecrispie - and being part of the EEA means having open borders & free migration.

M'wah ha ha ha ha

It really sucks to be Boris right now.

But it was Cameron's fault that there was a referendum in the first place. The whole thing is a bloody mess.

We haven't left yet, so surely if a miracle happened we could just stay. The miracle, for me, would be Boris Johnson accepting full responsibility for lying to the public - in my opinion that would mean we could have a second referendum.

I hope he doesn't stand in the leadership campaign. Surely he has no credibility and we would look even more of a laughing stock if he became Prime Minister!!

It's interesting that Boris hasn't been on Twitter since Thursday.

Can anyone point to the articles mentioned above where he said we should stay in Europe?

There's a regular meeting in Brussels on Tuesday isn't there? Or Monday? Cameron has to be there.

Apparently he's going to be accosted on all sides by other leaders and Foreign Ministers who will be telling him in very blunt language to GTFO. He'll need a stiff drink after that.

I have approached the subject with great depth. However, mitzy you've done exactlyas you've been doing for the past few month selectively hearing what you want, ignoring the rest of the quote. Still at least you haven't disappointed me, defeat hasn't improved your argument.

Did anyone see the MEP Hannan basically saying we'll still be in the single market and trying to explain that it's OK as we'll have freedom of movement (ie still have EU immigrants without limits coming into the UK to work under treaty rules) but the big important distinctions is that they won't be EU Citizens with the right to vote and study?

Could have made that point a TEENSY bit clearer in the run up to the vote.

'I have approached the subject with great depth.'

You're such a card!