To think that Boris didn't actually want Brexit to happen

[hownottofuckup]

And that something else was afoot entirely?
Possibly with David's support, or knowledge at least.
There's been quite a bit about the divide between him and his family (not that that means much necessarily)
His propaganda for leaving was ridiculous in the extreme (£350 million a week for the NHS?)
His reaction since the results were announced
I can't help but wonder if he seriously misjudged the voting populace and this was never his intention at all. More a tactical move with a view to securing something else entirely, purely for his own personal gain.
You could never really accuse Boris of being in touch with the 'common people' after all.

I believe Cameron thought he was doing the right thing.

I really can't agree with that. Promising it was pure expediency for him.

The other EU members won't take the UK back. No way. The door has been slammed shut.

Maybe I'm just being too optimistic/naive but I don't think so. First of all, we haven't left so we don't need to get taken back. Second, although the rest of the EU is putting pressure on publicly for us to sort ourselves out and go asap, I suspect that in private they don't think that at all. My take is that they'd rather have us in than out and are hoping we can find a way to stay.

Of course he wanted Brexit. He spent a decade campaigning against the EU as a Brussels correspondent with The Telegraph. He knows better than anyone what he was campaigning against.

I think he was just trying to look Prime Ministerial (he needs to win over at least some of the 48%), and not come across as smug at having won.

I can't help but think Mrs merkel would be lenient if DC cosied up to her and said we're changing our minds, will you help me style this one out This properly made me laugh. Thanks for giving me a bright spot in this mess.

I think he was just trying to look Prime Ministerial (he needs to win over at least some of the 48%), and not come across as smug at having won.
In that case he failed.

But we aren't out of the EU yet, as far as I understand, not until Article 50 is invoked. Perhaps DC has actually done a wise thing in giving a 3 month breathing space. A lot could happen in that time.

mama, www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10052646/Quitting-the-EU-wont-solve-our-problems-says-Boris-Johnson.html

Boris always wanted two votes.

He intended to the first would propel him to a good position in the cabinet, possibly PM, with a view to renegotiating with the EU.

As a plan it had risks but he rolled the dice.

Now he has to deal with the consequences.

It never ceases to amaze me at how supposedly intelligent people believe the gov and ministers give a hoot about us commoners.
They are in it for themselves, their fat friends and their businesses/ shares and investments.
It has always been the same, nothing changes.
I have a very low IQ and can see this, what are the intelligent people's excuse?
All these calls for only well educated people being able to vote is a joke, there are so many academic idiots on these threads.
Has anybody ever considered that we could have been manipulated into a leave vote, as was the plan all along?
Lets face it creating a divide has been their intention from the start.

I understand that staying now would be politically difficult. but is there any legal means by which we can be forced out? genuine questions. I don't think there is but it is a while since the EU Treaties and I were closely acquainted. and if there isn't, and they tried to force us out anyway, they would quite possibly trigger their own constitutional crisis which wouldn't work out too well. Better to treat us as the prodigal son, surely.
Am trying to keep the flame of Euro hope alive in my heart - probably better to move on :(

Yeah I think his dislike of the EU was very real. It goes way way back.

But I think the Leavers thought it would be a bit less dramatic. It all got a bit real on Friday with the pound plummeting and the credit rating being downgraded etc.

Maybe Boris didn't think the rest of the world would view it so negatively. Almost as if the rest of the world hadn't been reading his pamphlets - how very dare they!

It wouldn't surprise me if the LEAVE campaign was deliberately flawed so that if the result of the referendum went that way it could be 'appealed' on the basis of that.

It's clear that a lot of voters were misled in regards to immigration and where the EU savings would be spent (if any). LEAVE campaigners have already admitted that.

Also factor in that some people have now openly said it was a protest vote and hadn't really wanted to leave the EU and the small margin by which LEAVE won, it's a flimsy basis on which to start such a huge chain of events.

3 months of reports of how bad it's going to be (even from the publications who supported LEAVE) to face how it will really be out of the EU and we'll all be grateful when parliament vote not to invoke section 50 and decide not to start negotiations just yet.

I said that to DH yesterday then saw the guardian running an article saying the same today. It's cheering me up a bit.

I also just heard on another mnet thread that a few weeks ago he stood on the steps of his bus in Cornwall & promised that Cornwall wouldn't lose a penny if the country voted out. Which has me weeping with laughter. That's 60 million a year you have to find just for Cornwall boris - 60 million a year.

Surely They won't try to stop us if we ask to stay after all. Us running to them with our tail between our legs saying actually we were fools and want to stay would suit them perfectly as it would be a massive deterrent to otters and makes the EU look like saviour...

Norway is out and it's functioning. Maybe not as smoothly as the Leavers would have you believe....But it manages ok.

So I imagine the EU will say "you voted to be like Norway, so we'll graciously let you have the freedom you so ardently desired".

Don't forget the UK has been loudly euro critical for decades. John Major had an awful time with it. And the EU remembers. Some EU nabob commented yesterday that the UK have been causing trouble in the EU for years. Everyone is sick of it.

So nobody is going to be clamouring about the prodigal son coming home.

Well I do think he's had his eye on Number 10 for years. But if he didn't want Brexit, and thought he could manipulate the moronic public, he's even more of a moron.

All the reports in the papers today of DC allegedly saying "Why should I have to clean up their shit? " has me in suprising agreement with him.

A) He's still the Prime Minister.

B) He started this! It was his big election promise! He doesn't get to sulk because he was a twat of a PM and no-one trusts him, which helped it all backfire. He and Osborne have backtracked and lied throughout the past six years and then they smirked at each other in the House of Commons like they were untouchable. I actually can't blame people for voting Leave as a protest vote against him. If I was more financially stable I might have been tempted myself!

C) He said that he would be there - whatever the decision - to make the transition. Another lie.

It's not just Boris. It's Michael Gove. Iain Duncan-Smith. Probably our next political 'dream' team. All we need is for Nigel Farage to jump ship to the Tories and the nightmare will be complete.

You're right OP, but not sure about the collusion with Cameron. BORIS def saw this as a way for self-promotion. Has anyone seen the Robert Redford film The Candidate?His team don't expect him to win but they say "you're losing too badly, step up the game." And he does, and he wins, and the final shot of him is of him thinko g ohhhhhjjjj fcckkkkkkkk. And that is Boris and Gove.

The look on his face was that of a deer caught in the headlights yesterday. I do think he wanted UK out of the EU in theory but now it's real, it might well be that he has woken up and is thinking it will be a bloody nightmare trying to ensure that some good comes out of this for the UK. What a total bloody mess. And I honestly don't blame Cameron for not wanting to be the one to wade in and begin the long and tortuous process of endless negotiations, deals and cutting services and benefits even further.

Yes, both intelligent but over this, neither Cameron nor Boris have been as clever as they think they are as a pp said. As for what Boris believes, it depends on what's to his advantage. Anti Europe when writing stupid bendy banana newspaper articles, then pro Europe as mayor of a major multicultural city, only to turn anti Europe again when he thought it was his route to Cameron's job. Now he's staring down the barrel of having no excuse not to take the job he wants, but knowing it'll be hell and make him hugely unpopular once he actually has to deal with it all. Reap what you've sown, Boris!

As for 'no way back, the door's shut' - not at all. We haven't gone anywhere yet, and no other EU state, whatever they say, can force us to act on Article 50. Bet Boris is now desperately trying to plot an escape route.

......quite want to see that film now......sounds good.

Unfortunately Boris, you reap what you sow!

I didn't mean to suggest they would be clamouring for us to stay, just that they won't try and force us out if changed our minds and decided we wanted to stay.

Also factor in that some people have now openly said it was a protest vote and hadn't really wanted to leave the EU and the small margin by which LEAVE won, it's a flimsy basis on which to start such a huge chain of events.

It is, and I wish someone would have the guts to stand up and say it. Plus I believe it was made public knowledge beforehand that the result was not legally binding.

Apart from it being political suicide to simply ignore it, though (even though part of me thinks Cameron has resigned already and therefore has nothing to lose and should just do it), ignoring it would drive more people to vote for UKIP next time round and almost certainly get them more MPs. Which is a fairly frightening prospect in itself.

But there will be plenty of Leave politicians who will force Article 50 to be enacted. The pressure will come from within.

And obviously the pressure is already coming from the EU.

And tbh the global markets don't like this "one foot in one foot out" limbo one bit.

It'll have to be enacted.

Us running to them with our tail between our legs saying actually we were fools and want to stay would suit them perfectly as it would be a massive deterrent to otters and makes the EU look like saviour...

I think that's a very good point. I know the rest of the EU won't be 'clamouring about the prodigal son coming home' because it values the UK's presence so much per se, but it would be a very useful example to be able to make.

I like the Guardian article linked above about Boris. Agree with every word.

Boris has never really wanted to leave the EU, I would be willing to bet on that. He backed Brexit as his ticket to get to No. 10. He really probably wanted Remain to win by just a narrow squeak so that he could still oust Cameron yet wouldn't have to implement his non-existent plan for what would happen in the event of Brexit winning.

Boris is an arse who has bitten off far more than he can chew, or than he ever wanted in the first place. I don't have any sympathy for him, and Cameron may have made an astute move by resigning yesterday and throwing him to the wolves if he (Boris) does win the Conservative Party Leadership campaign.

If Boris does become PM later this year I think he will find it a poison chalice.