First Brexit employment casualties

[Stopyourhavering]

dd graduated this week, happy times.....phoned this morning to say that 2 of her friends, who had also graduated ( business/law degrees) and been offered jobs had been telephoned by their prospective employers to say that because of Brxit, they were now basing their headquarters in Berlin rather than UK and would no longer be employing them......I fear this is just the start....I am so angry and upset for our youth. My ds and dd2 are so angry and feel betrayed....I wish 16 &17 year olds had been given a vote as I feel they had a better handle on the repercussions of Brexit

None of the large US /Swiss investment banks have said they will move their entire operations out of London, so the previous poster has misunderstood a little peehaps. They do however need to continue to have a trading presence within the EU to enable access to the other 26 countries within the zone. So staff who work in either FX trading or the affiliated support services, like my husband, do face the very real possibility of having to move, as I had previously posted. Although the process of withdrawing from the EU is lengthy, the need to continue trading is immediate, so we are expecting to hear next week whether our family have to move to Dublin or Frankfurt. And yes, there are people who work in banks who are not on unbelievable salaries with privately educated children. My husband is a software developer at one of theinvestment banks, I'm a teacher, I'll have to give up my job as well and very much doubt there's much demand for a German teacher in Frankfurt. My son was about to start his GCSEs here and I have no idea how he'll get on switching school now. It's all up in the air and very worrying, but please be reassured none of this is a figment of my imagination or over-stated.

So the Official Vote Leave produced a letter with concrete proposals in.
Why then, since they won the Referendum are Gove, Johnson and all the other signatories out there now publicising this? Instead of playing cricket in Johnson's case and doing God knows what else in the other's case.

I would particularly like to see action on this one:
For example, the UK is set to pay out between £7 billion and £43 billion by 2021 in tax refunds to big businesses which have successfully used the European Court and EU law to escape taxes lawfully imposed on them in Britain.

I hadn't noticed any particular keenness on any Tory Government to tackle tax avoidance by large companies, so why should we believe this promise? If there had been action on tax avoidance, then the disaffection with recent Governments might not have been so great.

My husband works for a French investment bank. We're currently based in Paris.

Word is that London operations will be scaled back.There were already 233 redundancies back in May. At the moment we have the choice to return or stay here because he's fairly senior, so we're going to wait to see what happens to the UK.

I'm very glad to have the option to live in France I must say.

You will be able to teach German or English as a foreign language in Frankfurt.

Perhaps there's a windfall ahead for operators of private jets then Prawn.

You would definitely be able to teach German in Ireland.

This was the exact reason I voted remain. DH's company is owned by American's who have their European HQ in the UK and 3 other sites. They import a lot of product from Belgium and export 40% to Scandinavia. We knew there would be a risk they would move to an EU country. As yet they haven't said a thing, which worries me greatly.

I'm hugely angry at the uninformed idiots who voted leave that are either backtracking or voted as a protest and didn't think it would happen or any other stupid reason I've seen spouted. This does not include people who did their research and made an informed choice. I respect their choice. But I am bloody angry when I see people who have gone "oh fuck, I voted leave but I didn't realise X, Y and Z would happen, whoops, wish I could change it now" bit fucking late you dickhead!

prawn that may well be true for the most senior managers - I can well believe it, actually, as I work for a company which basically has a London office only because some board members live in London. But you can locate some senior management in London while moving the rank and file elsewhere.

And that's the point. 3 or 4 senior people will live in London (probably paid "tax effectively") but bugger all for everyone else

I agree some senior managers are keen to stay in London but they do not add up to the business. The UK in itself is a significant market so there will have to be some things here but not as much as now- and any new developments/new businesses opening - why would a global bank put them in the UK?
Reduction in business= reduction in corporation tax and reduction in income tax, reduction in employment direct and indirect.
I work(ed) at big global bank- i didn't speak to anyone who intended to vote leave - people said that however they thought about it personally and more generally - it would be a self-destructive move from a City employee standpoint. Turkeys voting for Xmas

I'm a teacher, I'll have to give up my job as well and very much doubt there's much demand for a German teacher in Frankfurt.

N21, there's lots of demand for German teachers in Germany at the moment because of the many refugees having to learn the language. Even quite a few retired teachers have gone back on a part-time basis.

I worked for a build consultancy supporting the developer industry. I've seen on here quite a few people say they're putting their home extensions on hold. So this plus the builders who'll tell us "sorry, can't afford you anymore, but how about you give me a 50% discount and I'll see what I can do? I blame this Brexit thing - losing work left right & centre, but still got to keep my boys working to feed their families". Happens every time. I give my job 2 months max.....

I am a vote Remainer and have no doubt over the next few years, we are in for a really bumpy ride economically speaking. I hope that it's not going to be as bad as I fear.

One thing I wanted to ask about: if you visit Luxembourg, there is a street of tiny ancient houses by the river on which, if you look closely, there are signs for multinational companies: Amazon, Google, etc. The companies obviously don't do much work from these, they're only big enough to fit maybe 10-20 employees. They're something to do with getting around taxation or legal rules.

So, if London is already full of ambitious, well trained, well educated people, with an infrastructure and vibe that appeals to them, wouldn't it be easier to just set up a presence like these somewhere in the EU?

Zurich is hardly an exciting place to live - how have they remained a banking centre, outside of the EU?

Is there any hope for London along those lines? I'm sure the UK government is going to bend over backwards to do whatever it can to keep the City going. Might it be feasible?

Also, London is so god damned expensive as a place to live: it must add a huge overhead to keep your average, non-senior employees working here? Why didn't they move them all to Frankfurt before this? Was it just the English language advantage?

Is that why Hong Kong and Singapore are such large finance centres - English and proximity to Asia? Could London end up positioning itself like Singapore?

In a way, I can imagine the City somehow finding a way to survive this, and it being other sectors - manufacturing, etc - that take the really big hit? And then the Tories will use it to turn us into the neoliberal, ruthlessly free market paradise they've always dreamt of?

I remember seeing in a documentary about the 2008 financial crisis that many banks chose London to do their really dodgy derivatives trading because we had even fewer regulations than the US. The EU has tried to regulate the financial sector and the City had resisted. Could our English language advantage, time zone proximity to Europe and lax approach to regulation mean the City survives?

And if it does, is it something we'd actually want?

Lynmm63 I assume you voted leave with the same intellectual and rational analysis?

N231, I wouldn't take a GCSE starting child abroad. I have known 2 or 3 families who did that at the wrong time (it's fine if children are 3 or 4 and can adapt) and it's not gone well. I do have a friend who moved when the children were young but then sent them all at 16+ back to the UK to do A levels and for university after having completed schooling to 16+ in Germany but they were bilingual children as they moved there at a very young age. Moving a 14 year old might ruin his life chances no matter how good his German is. It is too much of a chance at a vulnerable age.

It might be sensible if you stayed here and continued teaching and your husband commutes back when he can horrible though that may be whilst he looks for a different job in the UK (usually IT does give you a bit of choice over jobs).

No, it was the access to the EU markets advantage on top of speaking English, plus London has a bit of cachet and does not have a sausage named after it. Plus the lack of seriousness about regulation.

But I think you are right to think that the little cabal that has now taken over the Tory party has a glint in its eye at the prospect of waving goodbye to workers' rights and environmental protection.

HSBC to move first 1000 jobs to Paris

I think HSBC has announced a move to Paris affecting 1000 UK staff IF we leave the single market www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36629745.
I cannot see this referendum result meaning anything other than we have to leave the single market. We can't keep free movement of people which Norway and Switzerland are subject to and say honestly we have followed the will of the people in the referendum.

Brian Appleyard and Dominic Lawson speak eloquently in the Sunday Times this morning.

This thread, dominated by bankers and bankers' wives (who seem to be financial experts by marriage) explains so well why the majority of the populus who chose to vote rejected the status quo.

Juncker's sourness represents his fear at the break up of the ec and his undemocratic project. Merckel is coming out as far more reasonable. I think she actually respects democracy having seen the alternative at close hand.

bankers' wives

yeah, that's the way to win an argument ...

I'm an economist with over 25 years of industry experience, not a "banker's wife".

We can't keep free movement of people which Norway and Switzerland are subject to and say honestly we have followed the will of the people in the referendum.

The people want to have their cake and eat it.

We are not going to get the 'will of the people' regardless of what we do.

This is because Leave campaigned using 'glittering generalities' in addition to outright lies deliberately, meaning that every single person thought they were talking to them and attached their own meaning to what Leave meant.

You can see that just from what people thought about immigration. There were Leavers saying Australian system, there were Leavers saying stop all immigration, there were Leavers saying illegal immigration amnesty, there were Leavers saying actually its not about immigration at all we will need to keep that - its about the economy and democracy instead.

You simply are not going to be able to keep people happy whatever solution is proposed.

This is why so many Remain voters were asking for 'the plan' before hand as it was obvious that this mismatch and lack of consensus was going to be a toxic mess to deal with.

Leave can not deliver on what they promised because they promised the moon on a stick.

Fuck knows how we deal with it, in the best interests of the whole country and avoid civil unrest.

Misti,

If you are an economist, then you can read carefully and understand. I did not say solely bankers' wives, but it is startling how many posts in this debate start something like 'my dp is very serious at 'some name' bank...,'.

Larry, I know of redundancies not in finance. There are lots of similar things to do with research and development.

Also in terms of bankers and 'bankers wives' (god lord sexist much), there are bankers and there are bankers. Not all people who work for banks do anything to do with finance, they might be paid a pretty average wage, and they might be aware of things you are not.

They make up a large part of the tax payers in this country. Its true no one likes the other type of bankers. But there is still an element of don't bite the hand that feeds you too - that being the former group of bankers rather than the latter.

Taking out a huge part of our economic core is really dumb however much you dislike banks. You may as well shoot yourself in the foot.

You do not need to be a banker or bankers wife to realise this.

Low, Larry, low. So you've stopped denying the claims now though? That's a start.

I'm not a bankers wife for one. I work in a much less well paid industry and I'm the sole bread winner in my house. I'm not immediately at risk, but fuck knows.

No one's asking you to feel sorry for bankers, but what they are asking are for you to consider the implications of a widespread exodus of big business (including, but not limited to the financial services) for everyone in UK. And it won't just be London that loses jobs. Manufacturing will also be hit.

That's a huge amount to lose in income tax, corporation tax, VAT - and that's what funds our country.

Red,

Why sexist? Banking is sexist, especially investment banking (worked in it for many years), so there are more bankers wives than bankers' husbands, especially on a main female forum. In addition, test my claim by reading the thread, see how many posts start in the way I describe.

I really think you should read Brian Appleyard especially on how this is a direct consequence of 2008. I remember talking to banking acquaintances in 2009 telling me that they could not afford to work for nothing (meaning a basic of 200,000 ish but no bonus). When I pointed out that people on 40k had their tax increased so that they could stay employed, they just did not get it.

I was and am a big fan of capitalism, but what we have is an entrenched elite enriching themsrlves at others' expense. lol at ftse and pension funds: no return since 1999. Look at top salaries, rising at 2x inflation or more. Look at growth in Asia and U.S vs growth in Europe. European GDP since the birth of the EU has nearly halved from 30+% to 16.5% of global GDP. And that includes the UK. This is not necessarily a club I want to remains member of..,