First Brexit employment casualties

[Stopyourhavering]

dd graduated this week, happy times.....phoned this morning to say that 2 of her friends, who had also graduated ( business/law degrees) and been offered jobs had been telephoned by their prospective employers to say that because of Brxit, they were now basing their headquarters in Berlin rather than UK and would no longer be employing them......I fear this is just the start....I am so angry and upset for our youth. My ds and dd2 are so angry and feel betrayed....I wish 16 &17 year olds had been given a vote as I feel they had a better handle on the repercussions of Brexit

I'm not a bankers wife either, what with being a highly qualified professional who is also the main breadwinner. So thanks for the insult.

People who work in an industry tend to know things about that industry. Because we actually speak to each other. So if people with those links are letting you know that there are redundancies afoot,and plans to relocate, you'd generally do well to listen.

Now, it all depends on the final outcome - perhaps there will be a speedy resolution anf we'll end up like Norway (which would be shit as compared to our current deal), but if we don't, or if this drags on interminably, we can anticipate a downsizing of the city, with all that entails.

Now, maybe Leave had a grand plan to replace 10% of the country's income. If so I'm all ears. But all I'm currently hearing from Boris, Gove and the like is a resounding silence. THERE IS NO PLAN. So unless the country somehow magically makes itself viable for manufacturing, other services, and other things that then global economy wants, then we are looking down the barrel at thousands of job losses, stagnation (as best), etc.

Larry, to be fair to you, those are great points - and I agree with you. And I agree with the analysis that this is a crisis born out of political indifference to the lower paid, the disenfranchised, the poor.

However, now that we've done it and Brexited, what's the plan to get the economic wheels turning? As the multi-nationals leave, taking their tax with them, what's going to replace them? What will ultimately fund the NHS, the welfare state, education and training, investment in local jobs, the things that are needed to keep this country going.

Two fingers up to the bankers feels great, I'm sure. But it's not a viable plan for growth.

I keep cross posting with people

People who work in an industry tend to know things about that industry.

Indeed. As do their partners, because discussions take place. My husband knows a fair bit about the manufacturing industry in which I work, because the poor bugger has been listening to me talk about it since 1989 . In the same way that I have a pretty good grasp of how the business model works in his, completely unrelated, business.

I am not a banker's wife but I probably know more EU than anyone on here. i will not personally lose out from this vote. it will be those at the bottom of the chain who voted to leave who will ose out ultimately. Dominic Lawson is very wrong in his views in the papers today and actually he didn't say what happens, did he? The one thing people want to know. What happens is presumably we have a budget now with higher taxes so another 2% on basic income tax which will hit many middle earners and bit cuts for those who use public services like the NHS and areas like Cornwall which votes to leave will lose their 60m subsidy from the EU.

You can be pretty sure that the UK's wealth creators and high tax payers will not be losing out.

In fact I can see a silver lining in the cloud as we might be able to push trhough needed change and reform on the back of this and perhaps remove the triple lock from pensions. We certainly are going to have to try to generate a lot more cash. If you kill the goose which lays the gold eggs you might well have to pay out less per week to feed that goose but you are sharing a much much smaller pie which means much less money all round.

Good grief, give LRry a break. He said quite clearly bankers AND bankers' wives. Perhaps he should have said bankers' spouses, but as far as I am aware no one has yet come on the thread to say 'my wife is a banker and she says...' Whereas plenty of women have mentioned their husbands.

That's not true, plenty of people have said: I do this/I work here or I worked there and Larry has chosen to dismiss that as 'bankers and their wives'.

Ridiculous.

Wealth creator is a word used very disingenuously of late. Wealth creators are inventors, those who create and run businesses etc, They are not managers and financiers. Most large mergers have been academically demonstrated to be wealth destroying.

As for tax paying, if you are paid a lot but produce little (in terms of goods or services) your wealth and tax contribution is based on others' losses; this is economics 101.

Does no one wonder how the lack of pension and stock market performance is correlated to increased senior managerial pay. This is the great scam of the last 30 years.

Paying tax does not make you economically virtuous, making something useful does. This has bee woefully absent in Europe, despite amazing scientific advances.

Misti,

Must remember to consult a doctor's spouse next time I am ill then.

larry

You're just being silly now. You're playing with the grown-ups in this thread, remember.

As it happens my husband works in a very technical, medical-related field. I could not do his job, although I know a lot more about it than I used to. But I understand the business model perfectly well, which is not the same thing at all as being able to do his job. Just as he has no training in economics but has a decent understanding of how large manufacturing businesses make decisions.

Larry, I think you're a classic example of a little knowledge being a dangerous thing

But we need to deal in the facts. UK is a service economy. Following Thatcher, successive governments have continued to choose this path. It makes up 80% of our economy ...

next.ft.com/content/2ce78f36-ed2e-11e5-888e-2eadd5fbc4a4

You can wax lyrical about inventors and manufacture and making things all you like. But this is not where our revenue comes from. For the millionth time, where is the big plan to make all that happen and generate the money that will lose as a direct result of Brexit? I'm seeing nada from the leave side right now.

I'd add, for the sake of impartiality, that my understanding of the business model in DH's field leads me to believe that in the short term it will be unaffected by brexit. This is of course not true of the city which will be the very first sector to see tangible impacts. My sector, manufacturing, will be in the middle: there will be an impact on hiring and investment but we'll probably make some extra margin in the short term because we mostly sell in euros and dollars.

Must remember to consult a doctor's spouse next time I am ill then.

You'll be fine....... My sister in law is a doctor. Fortunately for you, so is her husband.

(Indeed doctors do tend to marry within the profession because they have a similar lifestyle and set of common values)

I am a "bankers wife." My DH is upstairs on our home computer typing up two new job descriptions so he can hire two new team members. Just a tiny ray of hope. No hiring freeze at his corporate bank yet.

We need some leadership and we need to hustle. The future does look rocky right now.

I'd say, if we are pivoting away from Europe, we'd better build a third runway at Heathrow sharpish. Maybe shower money on the "northern power house" with some big infrustructure projects and some sort of enterprise tax zone breaks. I don't know. It's all stuff we could have done anyway, but now it is a matter of urgency.

Missing,

You are spot on about diversifying away from the se and finance. People witter on about it but, ultimately, the decision makers are in the se and closely allied to finance. Tony Blairs 'consulting' job at jp Morgan for 1mio plus for a few days work typifies the way influence is bought.

Laurie, why do you think I have a 'little knowledge'. Aside from being condescending, I suspect I know as much about how these things work as anyone else on here.

This might be useful:
www.ashurst.com/doc.aspx?id_Content=12909

Wouldn't it be great to see a Brexit analysis document as comprehensive as this from the Vote Leave campaign? This only covers banking, I hope they (Vote Leave) have done the analysis on all aspects of Brexit.

Can we just remind everyone that we will be zapping any troll-hunting on this thread. If you have doubts, please mail us rather than posting on the boards.

Saw this this morning...

news.efinancialcareers.com/uk-en/248265/london-banking-redundancies-brexit/?_ga=1.127560782.210965432.1466765893

Manon you have to be able to speak French or German to work in Paris or Frankfurt, even if you work for a British or American company. They may speak some English too, but the primary language will the country's language

I work for a large French company based in Paris and everyone speaks English. Some better than others, but all of my European colleagues speak English - it's our companies official language. So your comment is ridiculous. Have you never been aboard on holiday? - the whole speaks English especially in large cities and companies.

I saw on the news yesterday, that the large finance companies are looking to leave, why would they stay and risk their competitive edge when their competition is leaving for a stronger more stable country in which to sustain and grow their businesses. Unfortunately this would mean taking their huge wages with them and making thousands unemployed.

larry - "Wealth creators are inventors, those who create and run businesses etc, They are not managers and financiers"

People who run businesses are managers

And finance people quite often do create wealth. You don't seem to know much about what finance actually is.

"Most large mergers have been academically demonstrated to be wealth destroying."

Funny that is not quite how I remember my Corporate Finance class at MBA.

Have you ever had any formal education in this topic, out of curiosity?

"if you are paid a lot but produce little (in terms of goods or services) your wealth and tax contribution is based on others' losses; this is economics 101."

I don't think you have come within a yard of an Econ 101 textbook.

People don't get paid a lot if they don't contribute to a company's revenues because businesses are not charities. That is Econ 101.

Larry, I think Cote has evidenced my claim well. And apologies for sounding condescending, I'm not meaning to be a twat, but you are throwing around ideas that you clearly don't understand - with a lot of misplaced confidence.

If you think the finance sector doesn't produce 'real' wealth, I'd respectfully suggest the treasury, looking at the tax receipts, disagrees with you.

My father said he is going to be winding his company down, having to pay tax on entry for goods manufactured within the uk is going to add extra hassle, it'll be the final push towards his retirement. He employs 3 staff in a rural area. Don't think any of them are going to want to pick fruit & vegetables (other local work).

BigGreenOlives

Could your father not sell the business as a going concern? Perhaps those employees might club together to keep it running? (I note you say it's hassle of transfer to new systems he wants to avoid, not that the business is unviable)

The staff won't have the capital needed to buy stock, let alone stock on which import duty must be paid before it can come into the country before it is sold. Retailers changing the terms of business to 90 days make life very hard for importers/wholesalers who have to pay upfront before items are shipped.