Our children will be conscripted into a Euro army run by unelected bureaucrats controlled by lobbyists.

[bkgirl]

So here's the thing.
I can't stand Farage and his racist cronies. I do like Europe, I like the idea of a european union and us all working together . However unelected bureaucrats have more power than our MEP's so democratic - it certainly isn't. The EU definitely wants a Euro Army and controlled essentially bu these officials who we can't unelect is CRAZY. Our kids, boys and girls are likely to be conscripted to fight in wars for the benefit of the people who pay the lobbyists. It's like the biggest con in history. Our ancestors who fought for democracy would be furious.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36565036?SThisFB

What nonsense is that? Conscription is not going to happen for the UK in an EU army. It will be a reality for other countries such as Denmark that already have it though. However an EU Army is going to happen. Make no mistake about it. We have such weak air and sea capabilities we will be sold on this as a great way to not be reliant on America.

Conscription will never happen. Even those countries which still have it, like Denmark, usually have a whole raft of opt-outs for conscientious objectors and those who prefer to do community service instead.

Modern armies are high tech professional beasts, not WW1 conscript armies of cannon fodder.

I recall a conversation with a high ranking police officer I had in the early 80s.

He explained in some detail how our police force, it's values and traditions, were very different from those on the continent.

You will never see bobbies carrying guns on the streets of Britain was the gist of his confidence.

There is the absolute possibility it might happen in the future.

:) yes, and the Sun will explode in the future.

There are "experts" both sides.

The truth is that nobody knows for sure what will happen. As far as military experts go, the middle east campania have been so great that I'd dismiss most and any so called military expert.
On the economy, the same. Who saw the last recession coming and who handled it well?
So far the stock market is plummeting in expectation of a Brexit. What does it mean?

Campaign

Yes. In time of war or near war the EU assumes dictatorial powers.

I'll ask again if you can point me to the wording of the law that says this, please.

I saw the recession coming last time and I see it coming now. I think it's already started but it's on a small scale right now. In another year I think the economy here in the US and in Europe is going to look very different and not for the better.

Exactly what the triggering event is I can't tell you. Right now the alarm bells for me are homes doubling in value which then sold within days on the market. Now the top end price wise are not shifting. Anything north of $2.5 million is just not even getting a viewing. This is because bonus pools were significantly smaller this year compared to prior years. Also I'm seeing the number of advisory projects decreasing significantly. My employer has been coaching people out with a bad performance review. They will do anything to avoid the bad morale of laying people off.

I also consider any General from the British Army who has retired to be an expert.

I also consider any General from the British Army who has retired to be an expert

Yeah but which one? They aren't all saying the same thing.

Retired British Generals might be experts on the British Army, but they aren't experts on the EU constitution or International law.

What on earth are 'dictatorial powers'?

I think most people knew that the last recession was coming. It's predicting exactly when a recession will occur that is more difficult.

I can say with absolute certainty that there will be another recession.

want2be of course there'll be another recession. There's always been recessions. I have lived through three in my working life alone

And saying "something is going to happen. I'm not sure what or why or when but something will happen" is hardly a ground-breaking prediction is it?

Which generals agreed to send British troops to Iraq without proper gear?

Clearly that was the 'wrong' ones Lweji 😂

Generals that were still serving and had to to the job in hand at that time Lweji.

Generals who can advise the incumbent PM & cabinet 'in the strongest terms' that they believe a decision to be wrong - but ultimately are there to do the job they are ordered to do.

Retired very high ranking Armed Forces personnel have a lot of experience & are very informed, they still retain very close links with the currently serving.
When retired, they are not curtailed in giving their real opinions & beliefs.

Also worth bearing in mind that they may be being a mouthpiece for those still serving who are unable to voice those concerns themselves.

When retired, they are not curtailed in giving their real opinions & beliefs.

And there isn't even consensus among this group.

Could it be that this is a very complex issue with no easy right or wrong answer? Gosh.

Of course it is Jassy - if it was a straightforward right or wrong answer we wouldn't be having this debate at all.

Obviously.

Mango, unfortunately that idea seems to have passed a great many people by.

Agree Jassy

Regardless of outcome, I hope that this whole thing will see a shake up in our politics.

My belief is that most people on both sides are genuinely decent and the referendum has allowed people to talk about all the things that are wrong with the EU and be heard for a change.

An EU Army is a straightforward thing. A right or wrong question. Armed force cannot be used by the democratically unaccountable.

So for those who appear to support it why does the EU need an Army?

The immigration issue could backfire. If the UK leaves but maintains agreements with the EU, so that UK citizens can migrate to the EU without major restrictions, or at least travel, it would mean that the same would be true for EU citizens to the UK.
And the net migration result would be what the anti-immigration people wanted to prevent by voting out.

Ups, sorry, wrong thread. There are too many already.

Armed force can be used by anybody who has power, democratic or otherwise. All you need is the support of the armed services.

If the EU governs by consent it can only act with the consent of its members. If the EU governs by force it can really do whatever the hell it likes whatever people vote tomorrow.

Whether or not anybody wants an EU army is irrelevant.

Sorry, Spinflight, any update on which bit of legislation enables dictatorial powers in/near time of war?

When all our children are rounded up and forced into the EU Army, will they supply the tinfoil hats or will the mammies have to make them?