Our children will be conscripted into a Euro army run by unelected bureaucrats controlled by lobbyists.

[bkgirl]

So here's the thing.
I can't stand Farage and his racist cronies. I do like Europe, I like the idea of a european union and us all working together . However unelected bureaucrats have more power than our MEP's so democratic - it certainly isn't. The EU definitely wants a Euro Army and controlled essentially bu these officials who we can't unelect is CRAZY. Our kids, boys and girls are likely to be conscripted to fight in wars for the benefit of the people who pay the lobbyists. It's like the biggest con in history. Our ancestors who fought for democracy would be furious.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36565036?SThisFB

do*

How do you unelect David Cameron?

He has at least one fixed term of five years, and a possible second.
I haven't checked, but I imagine that, as the European Commission can be dissolved, so can Parliament push the President out, as in other systems.

Your first link doesn't work, and the second can only push out Putin's agenda.

Considering that Trump has a chance of leading NATO, and Clinton is not without problems, I wonder if having an European only alternative to NATO would be such a bad idea.
I really doubt conscription would be accepted, though.

PS - are you claig?

Eh claig? No and now confused! :)

Jeez the idea of a big euro army controlled by Brussels frightens me. My son lives in Germany, he said it has swung massively right wing over the past 6 months.
TBF he loves the germans (wants to live there forever)but there are posters for the AFD everywhere and they are getting the support of a huge amount of people.

Trump is mad, hope he will never get in. HRC is deep in the pockets of the arms biz (as they are contributing to the Clinton Foundation) so yep that doesn't look great.
That said Nato has been a great force for good.

Apologies.
It was the Moscow thing...

Jassy none of us know the future. Just because one side or the other sells an idea better than another, it doesn't mean to say we are getting the best advice

Yep, that's pretty much my point.

If the EU were in a position to bully the UK into drafting its citizens into an EU super army against its wishes, they would be able to do so whether or not the UK was in the EU.

"Der Welt is quite clear that the European Parliament is indeed about to approve an EU army and override national vetoes:"
"The European People’s Party has just discussed ambitious plans to reactivate the EU at a meeting in Nice. This begins with binding majority decisions against the veto of individual countries – and continues with Europe’s own army and national border protection."
heatst.com/uk/senior-french-economists-german-paper-back-brexit-full-text/

"The EPP has been the largest party in the European Parliament since 1999 and in the European Council since 2002. It is also by far the largest party in the current European Commission. The President of the European Council and the President of the European Commission are both from the EPP. Many of the Founding fathers of the European Union were also from parties that later formed the EPP. Outside the EU the party also controls a majority in the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe." from wiki

Merrymouse. No, if we left they couldn't. If we stay they will.

Jassy you haven't made any remarks about the raft of things the EU are holding back. Do you find it acceptable? Surely you want to be informed? To make your choices on full and honest information. Think about trading standards! his isn't even a toy or a car, it's the future of our kids.

No, if we left they could. This is because:

1. If we leave we will still be tied to the Europe by trade, geography, foreign policy and finance, as we have been for millennia. Leaving the EU wouldn't make any difference to this - it would just change the meetings the UK could attend. The balance of power has been and always will be about more than bits of paper.

2. in this imaginary scenario where the rest of the EU had agreed to conscript their citizens into an EU army we are likely to have bigger international foreign policy problems than Brussels bureaucrats.

So Merrymouse I take it you are for a Euro Army? Really? Seriously?
I will give you one thing, you are no mouse! ;)

Why do you get that impression?

No, if we left they couldn't. If we stay they will.

Any country can leave at any time. I don't see a point in leaving because of a possibility that may or may not happen.
And in which case, if the UK government was really unhappy then they'd leave.

As for right wing scenarios, they could happen within the UK itself.

So if we vote remain and the Euro Army goes ahead and the UK veto is effectively bypassed. How will you feel? (I expect both to happen)

So if we vote remain and the Euro Army goes ahead and the UK veto is effectively bypassed

Explain how it would be 'effectively bypassed'?

Jassy you haven't made any remarks about the raft of things the EU are holding back. Do you find it acceptable?

Which things, precisely? And can you provide a link to information (unbiased as poss) on this?

I imagine a lot is being held back that is good and bad by all sides, just like in all elections.

Jassy "This begins with binding majority decisions against the veto of individual countries – and continues with Europe’s own army and national border protection."

and
www.politico.eu/article/brussels-presses-brexit-hold-button-uk-referendum-campaign-eu-legislation/
That was my point earlier - both sides are keeping things back but the EU withholding legislation is significant.
To be honest I don't trust of like many of the politicians and experts blasting us with their opinions. I want the unspun facts like what legislation, what agreements, what deals they are going to rope us in to and preferably what lobbyists have influenced them. None of which have so far been revealed, we just have politicians threatening lil' old ladies with their pensions. Lousy.

Again, I'm not sure what doomsday scenario you are imaging will cause every other EU government to agree that their citizens should be conscripted into an EU army.

However, in that scenario the UK can just refuse to take part. Of course you can come up with reasons why the EU would be able to force the UK to take part (they invade the UK? They threaten to stop buying tea?), however, an EU that was that powerful would be able to control the UK in or out of the EU.

I want the unspun facts like what legislation, what agreements, what deals they are going to rope us in to and preferably what lobbyists have influenced them.

Wouldn't we all?
But surely that misinformation happens in UK elections and government.

That strikes me as absolutely business as usual - just as we had in the UK before the indyref and before GEs (and to a lesser extent local elections).

But it also strikes me as a bit of a red herring. If you are going to be swayed by an individual piece of legislation or an individual budget that happens to be around the time of the referendum, there's a chance too much importance is given to that because it's current, rather than of particular importance. And where does it end, logically? Sight of forward legislation for the next 3 months post-referendum? 6 months? The life of the current Commission?

Can you point me to the bit of EU law that allows decisions currently reserved for unanimous decision to be switched to QMV without treaty change?

"The remorseless logic of a single European state means that the British Army will be no more and that our barracks will be filled with soldiers from a single European Army".

General Sir Michael Rose.

Is there anyone who denies Sir Michael is an expert?
Is there anyone who thinks we shouldn't listen to an expert opinion on this?

"Can you point me to the bit of EU law that allows decisions currently reserved for unanimous decision to be switched to QMV without treaty change?"

Yes. In time of war or near war the EU assumes dictatorial powers.

Scary?

It should be as the definition of "near war" is unclear however has deliberately not been limited to external aggression against the EU.

Just read the title.

There is the absolute possibility it might happen in the future.

Had to steal that line from Kate Hoey on Daily politics. I'm not sure exactly what it means.

Your expertise on this matter is what exactly?

How does your CV compare to Sir Michael Rose's?

This thread is just...ridiculous.

Repeatedly stating unfounded nonsense in the hope that people read and believe it.