Our children will be conscripted into a Euro army run by unelected bureaucrats controlled by lobbyists.

[bkgirl]

So here's the thing.
I can't stand Farage and his racist cronies. I do like Europe, I like the idea of a european union and us all working together . However unelected bureaucrats have more power than our MEP's so democratic - it certainly isn't. The EU definitely wants a Euro Army and controlled essentially bu these officials who we can't unelect is CRAZY. Our kids, boys and girls are likely to be conscripted to fight in wars for the benefit of the people who pay the lobbyists. It's like the biggest con in history. Our ancestors who fought for democracy would be furious.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36565036?SThisFB

Col. Bob Stewart is a really balanced & principled man.

His testimony re the move toward a European Army and its consequences combined with Lord Guthrie switching sides is something I would not personally disregard easily.

That's the trouble, isn't it Mango? There are decent, principled and well informed people supporting not each side. As I said earlier, how you weigh them up is a matter of priority and balancing risk.

What about national service. It is pretty popular in the UK. You up for that?

Actually would you SUPPORT a euro army?

It depends what month you ask him though Quriana at the beginning of the year he thought we were safer in.

Principled and decent and well informed doesn;t mean you can foresee the future. They don;t know and there are plenty of well infomred people on both sides (decent and principles are somewhat less germane to me in deciding than just plain old well infomred).

The UK if In would be effectively blackmailed not to use it's veto.

I think the UK would use it's veto (blackmail or no) as it would be political suicide for any british leader. And as you seem to be ignoring - there are more countries against than for so it's not uk vs the rest of Europe.

Bk, are you asking anyone specific or just generally?

Either way - I'm against an EU army and think the best way to prevent it is remaining within the EU. I am also against conscription in almost all circumstances.

TBH a few weeks ago I would have been IN but then changed when I looked at the way democracy has been perverted and have become concerned at the way the are rushing TTIP through. The power of corporate lobbyists really scares me.
I looked at Diem 25 who are pro IN but frankly I don't hold as much faith as they dothat we can re democratise the EU. What incentive is there for unelecteds to relinquish their power? I like the idea of it and if the EU gave it in writing as a contract before the ref - sure I would sign up for remain. Sadly they won't will they.
Anyway, for the sake of argument - I think the following is great if enshrined in law.

Democratise Europe!
The EU will either be democratised or it will disintegrate!

Our immediate priority is (A) full transparency in decision-making (e.g. live-streaming of European Council, Ecofin and Eurogroup meetings, full disclosure of trade negotiation documents, publication of ECB minutes etc.) and (B) the urgent redeployment of existing EU institutions in the pursuit of innovative policies that genuinely address the crises of debt, banking, inadequate investment, rising poverty and migration.

Our medium-term goal, once Europe’s various crises have been stabilised, is to convene a constitutional assembly where Europeans will deliberate on how to bring forth, by 2025, a full-fledged European democracy, featuring a sovereign Parliament that respects national self-determination and sharing power with national Parliaments, regional assemblies and municipal councils.

We call on our fellow Europeans to join us forthwith to create DiEM25 and to fight together to democratise the European Union, to end the reduction of all political relations into relations of power masquerading as merely technical decisions; to subject the EU’s bureaucracy to the will of sovereign European peoples; to dismantle the habitual domination of corporate power over the will of citizens; and to re-politicise the rules that govern our single market and common currency.

We are inspired by a Europe of Reason, Liberty, Tolerance and Imagination made possible by comprehensive Transparency, real Solidarity and authentic Democracy. We aspire to:

A Democratic Europe in which all political authority stems from Europe’s sovereign peoples
A Transparent Europe where all decision-making takes place under the citizens’ scrutiny
A United Europe whose citizens have as much in common across countries as within them
A Realistic Europe that sets itself the task of radical, yet achievable, democratic reforms
A Decentralised Europe that uses central power to maximise democracy locally
A Pluralist Europe of regions, ethnicities, faiths, nations, languages and cultures
An Egalitarian Europe that celebrates difference and ends all forms of discrimination
A Cultured Europe that harnesses its peoples’ cultural diversity
A Social Europe that recognises freedom from exploitation as a prerequisite for true liberty
A Productive Europe that directs investment into a shared, green prosperity
A Sustainable Europe that lives within the planet’s means
An Ecological Europe engaged in genuine world-wide green transition
A Creative Europe that releases the innovative powers of its citizens’ imagination
A Technological Europe pressing new technologies in the service of solidarity
A Historically-minded Europe that seeks a bright future without hiding from its past
An Internationalist Europe that treats non-Europeans as ends-in-themselves
A Peaceful Europe de-escalating tensions in its neighbourhood and beyond
An Open Europe that is alive to ideas, people and inspiration from all over the world, recognising fences and borders as signs of weakness and sources of insecurity
A Liberated Europe where privilege, prejudice, deprivation and the threat of violence wither, allowing Europeans to be born into fewer stereotypical roles, to enjoy even chances to develop their potential, and to be free to choose more of their partners in life, work and society.

Thanks Jassy, it was an open question. I just wanted to see if the thought of a euro army just concerned me or if any other mums would actually welcome it.

The wealthy 1% want IN. The rest of us want OUT.

My crane, the opinion polls seem to have slightly different maths.

The polls seem very close. It guess it will depend on who bothers that day.

Yep. It all comes down to the 10% (as in GEs really) and I'm terrified that we'll sink to the lowest common denominator stuff again in the last few days to try to sway them.

Is this 'EU army'/'conscription' nonsense the new scaremongering that is doing the rounds?

There's a reason for asking - because I've seen it before.

A friend of mine put up a Remain poster in her window, and she had a letter put through her door that included this unfounded threat. She sent to me because she found it rather out-of-place, unwarranted and rather creepy.

(p2 of letter attached - I didn't put up p1 because of personal details on it)

Juncker can't make it happen.

So claiming that Juncker wants an EU army is scaremongering.

Is it wrong that my immediate reaction to that letter is 'gosh, I wish someone had told the Serbs they were a Muslim country before the Balkan war, that would have saved a lot of bloodshed'?

I wonder what Sylvia lectured in. It does not appear to have been something research-heavy.

There have been muttering a if an EU Army for a while now.

I left the forces last year, and over the last 10 years of my career the cost cutting and stripping of resources & manpower were appalling.
All segueing nicely into the 'need' to combine resources (ie armed forces) within the EU.

I was in the RAF, the rot set in properly when Blair got in and the Strategic Defence Review of 2010 was atrocious.
We lost the Nimrod & Harrier force overnight and the Typhoon was not fit for purpose when it was rushed in. It took over from the Tornado in the Falklands not even signed off to fire live missiles, because the govt didn't want to lose face by pushing back the take-over date.

There was talk of a European Quick Reaction type force for a while, but I've no idea what direction that has gone now - that would be an EU joint force which falls short of an actual 'army', so who knows if they could sneak that through.

If these former heads of the Armed Forces are warning caution then I'm listening, because they are no longer serving so don't have to toe the party line anymore.

Thanks for that MangoMoon.

That fits with what I read. It just worries me. saw this too :(

While a British Brigadier is in charge of the force during the UK's period of command, he takes his orders from Brussels, not from the UK's operational headquarters.

Read more: www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3602683/Invasion-EU-army-Worried-Euro-tanks-park-lawn-Minister-late-here.html#ixzz4ByZyFiep
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Juncker wanting an EU Army is NOT scaremongering. It is a fact. The documents are published openly.

June 2015:
ec.europa.eu/epsc/pdf/publications/strategic_note_issue_4.pdf

Quote from this document:
"Military, economic and strategic considerations all add up to one inevitable conclusion: if we need to do more with less money, gradually increased defence integration is our best - and only - option. President
Jean-Claude Juncker made a point of reinforcing Europe in security and defence matters in his campaign for the Commission presidency. In his Political Guidelines presented to the European Parliament in July 2014, he stated that “even the strongest soft powers cannot make do in the long run without at least some integrated defence capacities” and named integrated defence capacities, more synergies in defence procurement and permanent structured cooperation as the way forward. His forceful call for a European army as a long-term project of willing Member States has kindled a necessary debate.The real question now is where and how to start."

Regardless of the "Well Britain has a veto, so it won't happen" argument, this is where the EU wants to go.

Also we might have a veto, but that just means it will never be explicitly proposed.

Still it is pretty clear where things are going.

Take a look at defence procurement, if we want new vehicles they have to be European. We are allowed exceptions but only a certain percentage.

Half of the important military systems run on GPS. The satellites are already up and running, no known problems with it. Unless you are the EU hierarchy that is. They want and are funding their own satellite system, merely because GPS is owned and operated by the US.

In other words they want to be able to go and fight where the Americans disapprove to the extent that they would deny use of their own GPS system. If anyone can come up with a plausible scenario where this would be necessary I'll be all ears.

Check out our aircraft carriers that have no aircraft. Also the only warships laid down under the last labour government.

Bit big aren't they? Especially considering we have no where near enough frigates and destroyers to escort then.

Odd then that other EU nations seem to have focused on frigates and destroyers, though they don't have anything to escort.

They are due to be in service for 50 years, hence they represent a degree of future planning not inherent in other systems. The rest of the navy hasn't been planned around then, though look further afield in the EU and it all starts to make sense.

If warnings of EU military ambitions had happened a few years ago then people might have had reasonable reason to scream scaremongering.

All the ducks though are lining up, and even the EU president being explicit about their intentions.

If someone wishes to give me a list of things that the EU has wished for but never achieved then it would be a short list, and anything on it more than likely in the process of completion.

The only difficult thing to accept is that our political class have conned us for forty years, merely taking whatever small steps they can get away with or hide but always towards an EU superstate.

Sure an EU army itself is a big step into the abyss , though if you look closely you'll clearly see that we have shuffled towards the edge and never taken a step backwards.

Spinflight thanks for your thoughts even though they are depressing. It sounds then completely plausible that the requisitioning for the Euro army is well under way.
God help us.