Nigel Farage-staying in the EU risks more sex attacks

[BritBrit]

Nigel Farage says the sex attacks we have had across Europe by immigrants most notably in Cologne could happen in the UK.

Does he have a point? The EU have no idea who they have let into Europe or where they are. We have also had illegal immigrants sneaking into the UK we don't keep track of. More importantly other EU nations are able to issue their own passports which would give immigrants the right to enter the UK if we are in the EU, what power do we have to control the passport office of other EU nations?

news.sky.com/story/1707208/farage-staying-in-eu-risks-more-sex-attacks

"What happened was awful. But it has nothing to do with the EU. And indeed if we leave the EU we don't gain any additional control of our borders - we might even lose some to get trade deals."

You can't see a direct link between open door immigration and these attacks?

Leave the EU and we can do what we like with our borders, most likely secure and heavily enforce them.

I'm not sure any of your points make even minimal sense.

That the sex attacks happened is nothing to do with the EU - any more than that paedophile in Malaysia is the fault of the visa free travel scheme for Britons visiting MY.

It's not known where the perpetrators were from. Or how they got there. But having men around from the Middle East doesn't cause rape. Having violent gangs around with poor policing fails to prevent this kind of thing. Are you trying to say that men from certain places are more likely to be sexual predators? Because whatever way you dress it up that's simply being a bit racist.

And in any case, the UK isn't in Schengen so what does it have to do with Brexit?

"Leave the EU and we can do what we like with our borders, most likely secure and heavily enforce them."

We already control our own borders. We are not in Schengen. How will leaving the EU change this?

Men from certain places who consider women to be the property of and inferior to them, and who think uncovered women wearing perfume are slags and whores - yes, that will lead to an increase in sexual assaults.

Thank you Limer

Please don't silence young women by playing the race card. That is what happened in Rotherham and is now happening in a different way in Sweden France and Germany.

Many of the victims reported that the police looked on but wouldn't take action for fear of inciting a backlash or being thought racist MrsBlackthorn.

The EUs porous borders and it's unlimited right to abode within the single market most certainly are clear causes of this form of abuse. An asylum seeker who arrives on a Greek beach is able to travel anywhere in the EU once processed.

I suspect you are in a very small minority and your views come over as rather extreme.

"An asylum seeker who arrives on a Greek beach is able to travel anywhere in the EU once processed. "

Since this is not the case, please explain how having migrants in Greece makes women in the UK less safe.

A lot of these young men come from countries where respectable women have their genitals mutilated and stitched up. The digital rape is a punishment for being open.

Suggesting that all men from some countries think uncovered women are slags certainly sounds like an extreme - and overtly racist - viewpoint to me.

I have managed to work all across the Middle East while uncovered without being sexually assaulted once. Did I just get lucky?

Did I just get lucky?

Did the women of Cologne, Paris and Rotherham just get unlucky?

The point you are, I think deliberately, missing is that the police's inaction - which I hope you aren't attempting to deny - was truly racist and shocking.

Denying the problem, which is a real cause for concern on the continent, trivializes the brutal treatment those poor women received.

Also denying that this is a problem that the EU has both created and seems powerless to address puts more women at risk.

Frankly your position is far more extreme even than Nigel Farage's.

As I understood it, the sex attackers in Cologne weren't Syrian. In fact the Syrian asylum seekers were mortified and dismayed. I thought it was reported that the aytackers were believed to be Morrocans and Algerians who were almost certainly economic migrants looking to take advantage of the complete break down of border control in Europe.

And this is where the EU is a liability. Controlling its borders for the safety and security of its citizens is a basic function of the state. Without doing this the whole structure collapses. I think we were on the edge of chaos last summer and it was very scary.

We were. And it was. But since the UK isn't in Schengen how does leaving make women in the UK any safer?

"Did the women of Cologne, Paris and Rotherham just get unlucky?"

She doesn't appear to care.

You don't appear able to answer the question of how the UK leaving the EU might reduce the risk of any such attack happening here.

I think the argument is obvious MrsBlackthorn. We are all safer in our person when law and order is maintained. If the EU cannot control its borders and millions of unknown individuals enter and then are free to move around the vast Shengen zone, we are all less safe because the environment becomes more chaotic and less orderly. Yes, we are not in Shengen, but being part of the EU does put limits on how much we can close the door on the EU if it descended me into chaos.

There, I've made the argument. I don't think it will get that extreme, but I think that is the argument.

So. We DO NOT KNOW where the attackers in cologne were from - they may have been recent immigrants, they may have been German, Belgian, French, British for all that we know.

But, you know - it is the fault of immigrants.

We DO NOT take part in Schengen - therefore if those responsible want to travel here then our own border controls (which we have because we are not in Schengen) are in place, and would only allow people with passports to get here unless under a recognised refugee process (which has additional controls).

But, you know these big gangs of migrants are coming here to do the same thing.

These attacks happened in different European countries with different policing approaches and priorities. Local politicians have also been accused of orchestrating the cover up (and you know it was a cover up).

But, you know the same thing will happen here because nobody is watching for it.

Basically, a bollocks argument - there is no link between what happened in Cologne and being in the EU. It is bullshit. Even Farage (who initially made the claims) is trying to backtrack from it because he realises it is rubbish.

Also, I am sure his incredibly patronising and at times openly chauvinistic approach has endeared him to many, many people last night.

Are you shouting at me?

The suspects were not Europeans. We know that. In fact, here is a report from the Independent newspaper:

The vast majority of suspects in that case come from Algeria and Morocco and police statistics indicate that North African migrants are more likely to commit crimes than those from Syria, Iraq or Afghanistan, where the majority of refugees arriving in Germany originate.

www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/refugees-responsible-for-tiny-proportion-of-sex-crimes-in-germany-despite-far-right-claims-following-a6884166.html

So, just as I said, not asylum seekers, but men opportunistically migrating along with the asylum seekers when the borders broke down.

Of course our being in the EU did not create the migration crisis. No one thinks it did. Making a judgement about the EU's handling of this crisis and how it could potentially impact Britain going forward is an entirely logical thing to do when one is considering how to vote in the referendum.

Nope, emphasising points.

You didn't read that story did you 80kgirl? The story is that refugees are responsible for very few sex crimes. I would suggest you read it again - rather than cherry picking.

The migrant crisis - as you rightly state - has been badly mishandled by the EU (with some horrible behaviours along the way). But, and this is important in the context of this thread - there is no risk of the various people suspected of these crimes coming into the UK because we don't have an open border with the EU for refugees. These (suspected) economic migrants (that are suspected of these crimes) in to Germany, even if they were granted leave to remain would not have a right to travel to the UK.

Therefore, the risk posited by Farage (and supported by you) does not exist. It is spurious. Made up. Counterfactual. Rubbish.

Of course I read it. There is a distinction between refugees and migrants.

The point is that the EU looks very weak because it cannot or will not effectively control the latter.

Counterfactual rubbish designed to play on people's image fear of people who look different to us.

very disappointing to hear this becoming a central plank of a debate about our future in Europe.

Do you support an Open Borders policy? I know there are people who do. It's a principled ideological stance, but just not one that I share.

I am not sure anybody on here has suggested an open borders policy. It is not what we are discussing. What lots of people have said is that there is no link between the sex attacks in Cologne and being in the EU. If there is a direct causal link then it should be shown. "The EU are a bit shit at some stuff" does not create a link to "and therefore women will be attacked in British streets by gangs of migrants if we don't leave".

I'm not sure that the debate is just about migrants/refugees form Africa or the Middle East. We have absolutely no idea how many criminals from other parts of the EU are in the UK, we only seem to find out if one commits a serious crime like murder and then their background is investigated. I'm always intrigued by the checks run by carehomes (which supposedly employ huge numbers of EU workers) Obviously in the UK to work with vulnerable people we need DBS checks. Do the carehomes/agencies check the histories of each worker, do all countries have a similar system to the DBS one, are they all reliable? I would genuinely love to know. If not I would imagine moving to a country where your personal history is unknown and uncheckable would be very attractive to criminals.

I think if travel to the UK involved visas we would be far more likely to learn about criminal backgrounds and could turn people with such a history away.

Well, since pretty much everything Farage says is rubbish, you can probably discount this too.