Nigel Farage-staying in the EU risks more sex attacks

[BritBrit]

Nigel Farage says the sex attacks we have had across Europe by immigrants most notably in Cologne could happen in the UK.

Does he have a point? The EU have no idea who they have let into Europe or where they are. We have also had illegal immigrants sneaking into the UK we don't keep track of. More importantly other EU nations are able to issue their own passports which would give immigrants the right to enter the UK if we are in the EU, what power do we have to control the passport office of other EU nations?

news.sky.com/story/1707208/farage-staying-in-eu-risks-more-sex-attacks

I know Cologne quite well. That area by the station is seriously dodgy - widespread drug dealing, drunks hanging around. Not excusing the actions of the people who did this, but that was an epic policing failure.

It still has literally nothing to do with the EU though.

This is the case for Norway and Sweden, which have higher immigration than us

Have you seen the Swedish rape statistics? Their uncontrolled immigration programme started a couple of decades ago. Have a google around at the societal impact of that.

My Swedish friends aren't telling me that their economy is thriving. They tell a very different story about the results of an open-door indiscriminate policy that balks at integration and turns a blind eye to misogynistic practices that are incompatible with western equality.

The regressive Left sneering at these issues and attempting to smear all who denate them as thick racists has been a key cause of the rise of the far right across Europe.

I meant Switzerland. Being outside the EU, which as noted means they have higher, not lower immigration.

Leaving the EU could make this worse, but it's hard to see how it would make it better.

Anna, Brexit won't chuck out all those people with bad attitudes to women. Or who come from "cultural backgrounds" that have bad attitudes to women. I'm Irish descent - anyone going to chuck me out because of vile paedophile priests or terrorist scumbags? Hate the crime. Investigate the crime. Support and believe the victim.

AnnaForbes - where does your figure of 14000 children raped come from? Couldn't find a comparable figure anywhere.

The sex attacks (which go much further than Cologne) are absolutely appalling. That the media tried to cover them up is far worse. Such misguided minimisation is unforgiveable.

There is a particular culture of this in I think North Africa predominantly. There it is almost accepted (or certainly very little help is offered to victims). Forgotten the specific name - begins with a D (someone will help).

What needs to happen is that we need to be aware of the risks, understand them and plan for them. But there are far greater risks to women and children already in this country - from people you know.

Following the Farage logic - "no matter how small this risk is, it is too great. Therefore we should cut off all possibility of this happening by leaving Europe."

The equivalent is "the risk to women or children being around people they know is too great. Therefore they should never leave the house. Alone. With no-one else there. Only then can we know they are safe."

Mrs B I know the area too and I agree it's always been somewhere I scuttled through, particularly at night. I've felt threatened by the look of the characters lurking about.

But NYE was completely different. There were coordinated sex attacks where women had to literally run a gamut of men who pushed their fingers into their vaginas and anuses and groped their breasts.

It's a terrifying phenomena and has been substantially documented across the MENA works, especially post-Arab Spring.

Gangs of men who feel that uncovered, unaccompanied women in public spaces are fair sexual game are a rising threat across Europe.

It's happening in streets, in refugee centres, to Eurooean and immigrant women alike, as long as they are 'provocative.'

By which we mean enjoying the hard-won freedom to work, travel and go about their business independently and without recourse to a male protector.

It's so sad that those freedoms have become political capital.

I am beyond disappointed in the Labour Party (who should be protecting my rights to equality) embracing this mysoginy by suggesting women-only carriages and sanctions segregated meetings.

Wake up, women.

Given the perpetrators comes from MENA, how does leaving the EU make a difference?

It's the issue of uncontrolled immigration by young men of that region posing as refugees, then demanding refuge in Sweden/Germany, being given a passport and therefore access to the UK that's a concern.

And given the complete lack of prosecution and subsequent criminal records for tarrush gamea we have absolutely no way of protecting ourselves from such sexual abuse.

It goes without saying, and yet it still has to be pointed out, that of course not all immigrants are a sexual threat.

But the idea of knowing the background and qualifications and professional ability and intentions of my potential neighbours is more attractive than opening doors to unaccountable and huge numbers of men who might not like the fact I am independent, uncovered and reek of perfume.

Since when have we had uncontrolled immigration? If you don't want refugees then say so.

Because when simone from MENA is granted asylum in Germany or wherever else in the EU they then have the right to move to the UK.

The thought of being in a union with turkey horrifies me. Women's rights will be thrown in front of the train so the men at the top can keep clutching to the notion that growing GDP is forever possible and a good outcome.

Turkey isn't joining the EU anytime soon. And if you don't want to have refugees in this country, then say so.

taharrush - that's it. Thanks Mooing Cow.

Lightbulbon women's rights are far more at risk from leaving:

www.tuc.org.uk/equality-issues/tuc-womens-conference/international-issues/europe/women%E2%80%99s-rights-risks-brexit

Plus beyond all the assumptions about impact of immigration, you are assuming that once we Leave we suddenly take control of immigration in a more effective way. Not so - potentially we'd join the EEA and still be in the same position as well as having less impact on decision making. Plus our borders would move to Dover etc.

I hate having to make such negative arguments about remaining so for balance here's some more fun, positive stuff: weareeurope.org.uk/10-things:
10 Things To Be #INfor:

1. Freedom
2. The Climate
3. The Countryside
4. Women
5. Being Global
6. The right to choose who I love
7. The Music
8. Border-Free Travel
9. Science

10. Peace

Since when have we had uncontrolled immigration? If you don't want refugees then say so

I never claimed we had; I was referring to the uncontrolled immigration we've seen in Europe since last summer.

Regarding refugees, I think there are more sustainable and humane ways of helping people in their own regions than encouraging criminals to recklessly transport those who are fit and solvent enough to make the journey.

But that's not a popular view as most conversations seem less about the practicalities and more about the personal heartbreak and public empathy of those involved, plus a rather patronising Disney-fying of all refugees as saintly victims.

Mooing - sounds exactly like the kind of a approach David Cameron (and I'm no Tory) has been working at. When he's not simultaneously been plotting the destruction of Britain with all his Remain stuff.

"Because when simone from MENA is granted asylum in Germany or wherever else in the EU they then have the right to move to the UK."

No they don't. Approx 1-2% may eventually, in many years time, get German passports. Then they can move to the UK. but by that point they will have established lives - and proven they have - in Germany, so they're unlikely to want to.

My South African friend has indefinite leave to remain in the UK. This doesn't give her the right to move to Germany or anywhere else in Europe. She still has to get visas to go to most places. Same for Syrians in Germany.

Mrs Blackthorn, thank you for your sensible post.

Reasons to Leave

1. Freedom - to make our own laws via democratically elected governments who we can get rid of, to decide in Britain where our taxpayers money should be spent, to make our own trade deals around the world, to live a peaceful and forward-looking life without interference from Brussels, to control our own destiny instead of being swept along into a United States of Europe.
2. The Climate - times have changed and nearly everyone recognises that we need to take action on climate change, renewable energy etc. Climate change needs to be tackled globally, not primarily in EU countries.
3. The Countryside - most farmers want to vote Leave. The EU has introduced some positive legislation on the countryside, and this will stay in place after we leave. There are many country-lovers in the UK and it may well be that had we not joined the EU, we'd have come up with similar laws anyway. As with climate change, we'll have more global influence after a Brexit.
4. Women - the UK has created legislation to benefit women many times, both before we joined the EU and independently of the EU. For example, the Abortion Act 1967, the Equal Pay Act 1970, the Equality Act of 2010, the Domestic Violence Act, the Employment Protection Act and the Divorce Reform Act.
5. Being Global - once we leave the failing EU, we can make our own trade deals around the world, accept non-EU immigrants on an equal basis to those from the EU, and (why has this hardly been heard?) stop being part of the EU's protectionist condemning of African farmers to poverty.
6. The right to choose who I love - the UK is one of the world's most tolerant nations. Who is stopping you from choosing who to love?
7. The Music - If we leave the EU we can fund our own musicians directly instead of letting the EU decide how this is done. Creative Europe says of their funding: "The programme finances cross-border projects, including platforms and networks of cultural operators; it no longer provides operational grants to single organisations, which should be encouraged to diversify their funding sources." In any case, the EU's own website makes it clear that "Article 8 of the Regulation No 1295/2013 establishing the Creative Europe Programme stipulates that countries other than EU Member States may participate in the Programme."
8. Border-Free Travel - that has its downsides of course, for example it causes discrimination to those coming from outside the EU. People lived, worked, studied and travelled around Europe well before the EU, and will do so afterwards. Many non-EU countries manage to have clean beaches; there's no reason to think we wouldn't have legislated for this by now. And as for "no roaming charges" being a reason to remain, words fail me!
9. Science - Scientists for Britain are challenging the validity of the two studies claiming that UK scientists favour a remain vote. Additionally they say "There is no doubt that the UK Universities line is to support UK membership of the EU, but given that the vast majority of HE funding comes from a determinedly pro-EU government, it would take a brave vice-chancellor to go against the establishment view. You just need to look at what happened to ex-BCC chairman John Longworth to understand the implications of going against the government position in the current climate. In terms of the general view of scientists, however, we believe that the case is far from clear." Here's their response to the pro-EU letter that was published in the Times.

10. Peace - NATO has kept the peace, not the EU. What are these wars that Britain would supposedly have taken part in, had we not joined the EU?

I'll respond to this point by point.

1. Freedom - "to make our own laws via democratically elected governments who we can get rid of, to decide in Britain where our taxpayers money should be spent"

No we don't. Nearly twice as many of our members of parliament or unelected as elected (the Lords). Conversely, every single member of the European parliament is elected by proportional representation. EU is more representative than our own institutions!

1. The Climate - "Climate change needs to be tackled globally, not primarily in EU countries."

This is simply nonsense. It's by being in the EU that we can press three trade deals for other countries to meet the same high standard that we have. Outside of the EU we will not be able to do this.

Moreover, Those who are campaigning to get out are exactly the same people who say we need to get rid of red tape - such as environmental standards.

1. The Countryside - most farmers want to vote Leave. The EU has introduced some positive legislation on the countryside, and this will stay in place after we leave.

There is no guarantee that it will. and in fact all the funding the car to go to farmers and the countryside isn't guaranteed either.

"As with climate change, we'll have more global influence after a Brexit."

Seriously how? It's illogical.

1. Women - "the UK has created legislation to benefit women many times, both before we joined the EU and independently of the EU. "

And the Leave campaign is being supported by people (Farage, Boris) who regularly campaigned against equalities legislation and women's rights. Makes you think that they're suddenly going to change their mind about this now?

Quite simply I don't trust any of these people to protect my rights.

1. Being Global - "once we leave the failing EU, we can make our own trade deals around the world"

Probably worth producing we have now, making all those poorer. Great idea!

"accept non-EU immigrants on an equal basis to those from the EU"

You seriously believe that Farage et al are doing this because they genuinely want to see more African and Caribbean and Asian people in the country rather than people from France and Germany?

"and (why has this hardly been heard?) stop being part of the EU's protectionist condemning of African farmers to poverty."

Thought you said you wanted people in the UK countryside to be better off? No you want them to be undercut by African farmers. you can't have it both ways.

1. The right to choose who I love - "the UK is one of the world's most tolerant nations. Who is stopping you from choosing who to love?"

What has been in the EU to do with this in the UK? Conversely you legislation does protect the rights of gay lesbian people in other countries that have less mature attitudes.

1. The Music - "If we leave the EU we can fund our own musicians directly instead of letting the EU decide how this is done."

The overwhelming majority people working in the arts and creative industries are in favour of Remain. Because enables them to live work and travel to other parts of Europe.

1. Border-Free Travel - "People lived, worked, studied and travelled around Europe well before the EU, and will do so afterwards."

I remember my dad having to queue for half an hour or 45 minutes at the airport because he had an Irish passport. My grandad had to get a bisa to go and work in Germany . Why would we want to go back to that?

Is less opportunity to do everything that we can do today. How is that a positive?

1. Science - "There is no doubt that the UK Universities line is to support UK membership of the EU, but given that the vast majority of HE funding comes from a determinedly pro-EU government..."

You quote a fringe group of scientists; the vast majority of scientists are in favour of remain. Because they get the funding that because science and its by its very nature requires cooperation between people and institutions. Being outside the EU only makes it harder. That's bad for science.

10. Peace - "NATO has kept the peace, not the EU. What are these wars that Britain would supposedly have taken part in, had we not joined the EU?"

More BS. My grandmother lived in Nazi occupied Paris. Her father fought at the Somme. That neither my father or my generation have been called upon to fight our neighbours is testament to the power of the EU in championing and enabling peace in Europe.

NATO is the institution that coordinates bombings and invasions. The EU is the one that ensures countries emerging from dictatorship have established the rule of law and human rights. Preventing aggression and making everyone in them safer and more prosperous.

Hmmmm. The majority of the farmers I've spoken to are voting leave, the majority of fishermen, the majority of small business owners - they all believe that CONTROL and DEMOCRACY is something worth voting for - if women's rights are suddenly kicked to the kerb, the government will be voted out in 2020...democracy in action. GMB Union's Tim Roache latest sexist quote "Priti Patel, surely a contradiction in her name" - nice.

"Wages will go up if we Brexit" (source: Lord Rose, Remain campaign leader), "we will thrive outside the EU" (source: David Cameron, speech to CBI 2015).

Do we want to be shackled LONG TERM to the slowest growing economy on the planet....it's like running with a parachute on. Why not enjoy being nimble, as the 5th largest economy in the world, and doing business with economies that are growing all over the WORLD?. JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs want to stay shackled - wonder why, it's easy for them to lobby Brussels and get the "regulatory regime" that works for them...and we all know how that ended.

In 2014 the EU presented us with an unexpected bill for E2 billion - David Cameron was "angry at the sudden presentation of the bill...it's an appalling way to behave and I won't be paying it on Dec 1st"....and of course he paid it. How big will this years bill be given the migrant crisis funding needs? I bet we'll find out in early July if we remain.

We are 1 of 28 voices, soon to be a larger number when Serbia, Albania et al join. As one of the richest nations and with 5 more poor nations joining, how much is our EU weekly membership fee going to grow?. We are one of the few nations that pays in - all the others take out. Youth unemployment in Greece, Potugal Italy, Spain...it's a crime....how can people think the EU is a success??

We are victims of our own success. Our economy has been doing better than most other EU countries, we have a higher standard of living and more freedom so people want to come here. Unfortunately, when they come in large numbers those standards tend to slip.

In the long run the EU will be a levelling exercise and admitting more and more poor countries for political reasons can only have an adverse effect on life in the more prosperous places

The majority of farmers you've spoken to may not be representative - the majority of farmers surveyed by the National Farmers Union are in favour of staying in (unsurprisingly - farmers get a lot of money from Europe, and a lot would go busy without it).

www.nfuonline.com/news/eu-referendum/

Wages going up isn't necessarily a good thing - it makes every single thing you buy more expensive. Want to pay £25 an hour for childcare? That's what could happen if we no longer have the option to bring people in from Europe to do care jobs. Would you still be able to work if you had to pay double your current childcare bill?

"How much will our weekly membership fee grow"

It's guaranteed not to for the next 15 years. We have a veto thereafter.

"Europe is the slowest growing economy in the world"

It demonstrably isn't. www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/02/europe-s-10-fastest-growing-economies/

"Why not be nimble as the 5th largest economy in the world"

1. we're 5th in large part because we are in the EU. 2) stay or leave, because of growth in Asia we'll fall down that league fast in the next few decades. We have far more clout in a union of 500m in those circumstances.

"We're the only nation that pays in, all the others take out"

This is simply wrong. Germany and France both pay more than us. Per capita we pay less and get more than almost half of member states.

How can people think the EU is a success?

I value peace, prosperity, opportunities, my workers rights, clean air, the food on my table...

I think on these comments made by Nigel Farage alot of the critics of the comments have explained how we can stop other EU nations issuing their own passports out to refugees/immigrants & under EU law once they have an EU passport they can come to the UK & all their family even if non EU citizens get the right to come to the UK

Applauds Mrs Blackthorne

Can I just say on the climate issue - this is one aspect where the EU really has been a leader and worked incredibly hard to help bring together the Paris Agreement last year. The UK would always have to form coalitions on that topic, could never go it alone.

BritBrit am afraid I dont understand your last post.