Interesting proportions for such a left-leaning site. I logged on expecting an avalanche of 'yes' and abuse for the few 'no's.
Tbh, I think no has been far more vocal on MN.
I personally think that a lot of yes lot have got to the point where they can't be arsed to argue. There is a lot of 'facts' that can't be argued with because they are simply in the realms of nonsense or prejudice. As the saying goes, 'you can't argue with stupid'.
I definitely think debate has been stifled by the presence of certain posters on the subject. I think a lot of people deliberately avoid EU threads like the plague as a result, out of simple frustration. (Its not the first time or only place MN has had a problem of this nature).
I have avoided debates, as Remain is predicting the Apocalypse but Leave believe in Unicorns and Fairies. There is no middle ground, yet this is where the reality is. The dynamic is boring and actually not encouraging debate, just a screaming match where no one is listening and there is very little honesty going on either. Both campaigns are as hideously bad as each other.
The propaganda is appalling, and is far more damaging to public confidence and democracy in general than the actual vote will ever be. The active encouragement and stirring up of anti-European and Islamic sentiment is particularly nasty and will out last the outcome, and its not a legacy that anyone should be proud of. The media should be ashamed of themselves at the moment as they are either too scared or powerless to challenge some of the crap being spouted effectively, or they are actively pushing this crap themselves. There is no proper accountability going on due to the Election Rules meaning if you are critical of Leave, then they are screaming bias or you can be accused of being a government puppet.
I fear that regardless of the outcome, we are about to lurch to the right and current UKIP are going to look liberal by comparison. If Remain win, UKIP will become more vocal and virulent if Leave get close to 50%, if Leave win, then it will be seen as an endorsement of anti-EU and Islamic feeling and this will become more acceptable. I don't think Great British and The Great British Public as a whole are going to Win whichever way they vote. The only people who will Win are the leading politicians who will capitalise whichever side they are on and will have taken full advantage of a period of completely useless shit filtering and bullshit detecting by media outlets due to the suspension of normal rules applying.
Nicola Sturgeon is seemingly the only person who has come out and made comment about the hideousness of it all. Which is frankly laughable and ironic, given what happened with the Scottish Referrendum and her part in that.
We DO need a national debate on migration and the causes of migration. That's NOT what we are having. We are having an outpouring of blame and nationalism rather than looking at practical ways to solve problems and cope with the situation. Remain are as guilty as Leave on this score as they are responsing to this narrative rather than controlling it or changing the angle of it. The very idea that immigration is a tap that can be turned on and off is ridiculous and both camps are guilty of suggesting the flow can be controlled by domestic policy.
We DO need a national debate on the future of Europe. We actually need an INTERNATIONAL debate on the future of Europe WITH other countries not on our own. Regardless of whether we are in or out. We have far more in common with the public of other countries than we have differences, yet that's all that is focused on, and its only the voices of leaders that we are hearing. This is also not happening. Instead the Right is Rising elsewhere too.
As for the Boris v David bullshit. I'm not sure which I find more insulting or delusional. Both have managed to go down in my estimation during the cause of this campaign. Which is quite an achievement.
Its like an horrific crash car you know is on course for a full scale collision going in slow motion that you can't stop. You know what the mess is going to be at the end and there is not a lot you can do to prevent it, as there is too much momentum behind it.
How will I be voting?
Does it really matter?
Not a lot will change either way. A twatty politician who is in it for himself will win. The poor will loose. There will be more immigration. The French and Germans will still influence British policy. There will be lots of red tape. The NHS will still be dying on its arse. There will still be a housing crisis. Nigel Farage will still have a face that you want to punch for its smugness alone. Bigots will still be bigots. Lefty liberals will still be lefty liberals. And to cap it off, Trump will probably win the US Election and either screw us all or blow us all up.
It will probably come down to which campaign I hate less on the day.
Its a shame we have nothing positive to vote for. There is plenty positive that could be stressed by both camps, but no one wants to.
Which says it all to me.
/Rant