The only way to get the EU to take the UK seriously is to vote to leave

[SpringingIntoAction]

Cameron tells us repeatedly that he wants to remain in a reformed EU.

Many others across the political divides also acknowledge the need for the EU to reform itself.

Some say that's why we need to remain in the EU - to change it from within.

I think the EU's refusal to engage with Cameron's plea for his EU reforms and the failure of his 'special deal' to achieve anything like the changes he originally said he wanted, show the EU is unwilling/incapable of reform.

I think the only way to get the EU to start taking our demands for reform seriously is to vote to leave.

They need to start imagining what the EU would be like without one of its largest funders - the UK. We do that by voting to leave.

How about, " And who do you think os paying for your pension, my dear?"

Accurate..

"She told me that the five other people ahead of her in the waiting room were all E Europeans."

Ah so she was there all week and took numbers? She was there for weeks on end and took numbers? Or this one experience, or two, can disporve the numerous studies that say otherwise?

Isn't it obvious that more people from abroad put pressure on our services. It's not necessarily the Europeans in particular but being in Europe seems to be a gateway for mass immigration.

I think it is high time the indigenous people are put first particularly with housing.

EU immigration isn't causing the housing crisis.

I find this determination to avoid the elephant in the room odd. Even Labour have finally admitted its a huge balls up - immigration! We have the NEW Blair book, giving us detail about the back room Immigration talks, the huge issue, blowing up in our faces etc.

Its all kinda out there and done, and its been a horrific experience for the UK.

I just don't understand how some posters can continue to fight it, and why they would want too?

Woodhill, yes, of course its obvious.

i do not know how the NHS survived Blairs assault on it. But then one could argue in some areas it has not survived because of the poor care some people have received in some areas.

Oh its so obvious, yet you can't prove it?

Yet the remain crowd can prove you wrong?

"People know" is a rubbish argument.

Thank you, I feel like I live in a parallel universe at times.

Why are certain areas full of sheds in their gardens illegally housing people.

If there are more people here then more affordable housing is needed and rental prices go up because available properties are more scarce due to more people requiring them.

We can crunch numbers, look at stats, and argue about whether immigrants add to our economy and our culture, and way of life.

Its an odd argument to have - when you have free movement of people, which is essentially what we have now.

Because we cannot control the "quality" - of the people coming to live here.

Quality meaning hard working - but socially adept individuals and families, who want to interrogate, and forge a good life here. Generally the sort of people who would go through a lengthy points process, and work hard at trying to live here, because they really want too.

In our system, no matter how many good people want to come here, and they do, you are also going to get very large numbers of BAD people who want to come and live here.

For this reason, its enough to shut down the whole free movement system.

We should never ever have allowed in one rapist, one murderer, any violent criminals AT ALL! Anti social violent people who have caused nothing but trouble, criminal gangs and so on.

Is free movement of people WORTH the flip side, free movement of criminals.

In my mind NO, Its not!

We had no issue with immigration before, and we wont in the future. We do not need, relaxed movement of people in the UK.

"Why are certain areas full of sheds in their gardens illegally housing people"

Generally illegal immigrants, not EU immigrants.

Why did hose prices rise so much betwen 1999 and 2004 without EU8 immigration?

Why did wages rise between 2004 and 2008 when EU 8 immigration had started and happened in a large way?

Why do a great number of different sources point towards EU migrants paying more than they take out?

"What people see" is tainted by their own pre conceptions and the media which informs them.

Generally illegal immigrants, not EU immigrants

A mixture of both and no way of counting either. People move in a transient way with no paper trail.

They don't hand over their details to their slum landlords, they hand over money.

Lurked, I wonder why you think we are facing a referendum at the moment.

Hint, its not about disliking Spanish Paella.

Yes I realise it's probably illegal immigrants but it still isn't right and I bet the people who own the houses with the sheds are not indigenous either but seem to get away with it.

Of course a lot of EU migrants are an asset but what about the unskilled.

Why do a great number of different sources point towards EU migrants paying more than they take out?

When the migrant is arrested, where is the data recorded that this person is a new migrant from the EU?
When the migrant appears in court after sticking a knife into someones face, where is his status and nationality recorded?

When the migrant is put in an ambulance after a knife fight, do the nurses, collect his data, and feed it where?
When the migrant is causing on going issues at the council, who is recording his data?

When the migrant is triggering neighbors to call the police, night after night after night - who is recording this data?

When the migrant turns up at hospital in established labour and with no notes, and no English, does the midwife, thrown into a difficult situation, gather data to be recorded somewhere? Is there someone with a calculator adding all this up? Under a government who notoriously did everything it could to NOT collect data? Under a government who did not do head counts so local councils were left Millions of pounds short to provide basic normal services to its people?
Id love to know who is supposed to be totting all this data up.

Id be very happy to consider your data lurked if I was confident that all of this has been noted, recorded and added to the stats, but I know it hasnt.

Can someone please wake me up when the referendum is over.

I'm voting to stay.

I am a little bit worried that even if we do stay this time round, the rest of Europe could decide they want their own referendum as to whether we stay or not and 95 percent of them vote for us to leave.

Oh Born free, I won't even entertain you, what a ridiculous name. What chains does the EU put you in ?

"I bet the people who own the houses with the sheds are not indigenous either but seem to get away with it. "

Evidence? Nah, none of you can evidence anything.

Yes I would also love an audit on council properties to see who is living in them and are they being sub let.

www.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk/reports/8-impact-housing-little-systematic-evidence-direct-and-indirect-impacts-immigration-house-pr

There you go, impact on housing.

www.getwestlondon.co.uk/news/west-london-news/beds-sheds-owners-handed-8000-9390702

The areas for this practice tend to be places like Slough, Hayes, Cranford, Harrow, Southall, Hounslow. If you google it this does happen. I have listened to phone ins on radio London about it.

I don't understand the small mindedness of people when it comes to immigration, it's pure stupidity.

I was walking through my economically booming, vibrant, multicultural city today and noticed only half of all people looked Anglo-Saxon. Without immigration many cities would be half empty ghost towns with boarded up shops and extreme poverty. Can someone tell me how this would be a good thing? British people aren't having enough children (something like 1.2 per couple). We need to import people. The population hasn't risen that much at all in the last 40 years.

Plus I want the option to move to other counties too. Why doesn't everyone want that?

Perhaps the British people would like more dc but cannot afford to because they are not eligible for affordable housing, have to work to pay high rents or huge mortgages.

If people want more children they usually find a way to make it happen financially. The people I know with no children don't have them because they don't want the responsibility; don't like children; haven't found a partner or can't have children.

While we're in the EU it's harder for people outside the EU to migrate to the UK, than those already in the EU. This doesn't seem fair or beneficial.

Strange that more than half of net migration is non EU then isn't it?

While we're in the EU it's harder for people outside the EU to migrate to the UK, than those already in the EU. This doesn't seem fair or beneficial.

It is unfair to give uncontrolled access to the UK to all EU citizens but clamp down on non-EU migration. We should be treating all potential immigrants equally and selecting them for the skills they could bring to the UK, regardless of which country they are coming from. There are plenty of accounts of British families who are unable to bring their Commonwealth relatives / spouses to live in the UK because of the increase in residency qualification for non-EU citizens. There are anomalies in the current system that discriminate against a British EU citizen to bring their partner to live in the UK, as opposed to a non-British EU citizen.

Cameron and May may say they wish to curb migration into the EU but the opposite is true as immigration has grown faster under Cameron than ever before.

Cameron wants immigration because all immigration is an economic stimulus. Immigrants = growth.
Illegal immigration is even better for Cameron as the Govt gets all the benefits of their taxes and does not have to support an illegal immigrant.

I just ignore him these days when he starts talking about immigration. If his lips are moving he's probably lying.

" We should be treating all potential immigrants equally and selecting them for the skills they could bring to the UK, regardless of which country they are coming from"

The UK government can always adopt a high skilled visa programme with global eligibility and/or significant personal tax breaks just like some other EU countries do in parallel with EU law (I have previously left the UK to be a happy beneficiary of one of these lovely arrangements ).

All UK problems do not stem from the EU.

Many stem from extremely poor governmental management and policy decisions executed in the UK...skilled workforce, benefits system, healthcare tourism, educational funding, infrastructure development and house building starts versus known and planned and actively encouraged population growth, financial services regulations, tax policy on oo versus investment property, airport security, border control to name a few (and yes many are interconnected).

I have seen the (very real and very serious) impacts of the poor UK government management of these issues randomly raised as attributable to EU membership by various people throughout the brexit campaign trail. It's just not true.

I would do nicely out of a brexit, I have to admit. My family will all maintain our movement rights through multiple passport s. I'll scoop a heavily discounted home in London (cash so I won't care about interest rates rocketing to offset gbp devaluation) and, crucially, won't have to live there until I retire so the economic fallout won't affect me.

That said, I'll be voting Remain simply because I think this offers the best future for the UK.