Anyone putting any plans in place in case we leave?

[ThroughThickAndThin01]

I've just checked the EU referendum current polls and it's looking very close at the moment.

I wondered if anyone is putting plans on hold, or will change any plans they have if we leave?

Personally, I am wracking my brains to think of anything which will directly affect me. Although I wonder if there will economical turmoil and whether to plan for an interest rate rise (our very high mortgage). Which will in turn affect Dhs business.

If we remain, I'd imagine it's just business as usual.

Anyone have any thoughts?

Do watch "Europe: Them Or Us" if you haven't already. It's a fascinating history of Britain's relationship with Europe.

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b077nrb1/europe-them-or-us-1-an-island-apart

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b078cwf7/europe-them-or-us-2-voice-of-the-people

Spring, and the EU should give the UK a special unique deal because....?

Turkey has a deal because Turkey wants to join the EU. So does Albania.

There is no reason the EU should give preferential treatment to the UK once they are out.

Free trade isn't free.

In all fairness, most Europeans will be relieved to see the UK go, exactly because of people like you Spring.

UCL, the LSE et al recieve far more funding from the UK than the EU. Why would their academics put their reputation at risk for this?

Who mentioned academics? Who mentioned reputations? Not me.

Obama is the worst president? Well that gives an inclination of your political standing.

Lol. You presume to know my political standing - you don't.

UBS has zero credibility?

In terms of this debate - yes.

Yet Boris, Gove, IDS, Farage and Galloway do?

Putting words in my mouth. I hold no torch for any of those.

But its clear that your own argument is to go "project fear"

Nope. Think of it as Project Reality.

I bow down to your superior critical thinking skills.

Cheers. if you could just convince your mates, I think we'd get on great.

Do watch "Europe: Them Or Us" if you haven't already. It's a fascinating history of Britain's relationship with Europe

Please do.

It's refreshingly shocking for the BBC. It tells the truth.

Spring, and the EU should give the UK a special unique deal because....?

We are the 5th largest economy in the world and they buy more from us than we sell to them.

Turkey has a deal because Turkey wants to join the EU.

Turkey has a deal because Turkey threatened to flood the EU with migrants.

So does Albania.

Wait until your hard-earned taxes are propping up the Albanian mafia

There is no reason the EU should give preferential treatment to the UK once they are out.

There is no resaon why they shouldn't.

Free trade isn't free.

Damn right it's not. It costs us £350 million a week + the cost of implementing EU law + the costs of uncontrolled EU migration. It's an expensive luxury that we don't need,

In all fairness, most Europeans will be relieved to see the UK go, exactly because of people like you Spring

The REMAIN side don't seem like nice warm, welcoming people to me. They seem very keen on personal abuse

Ireland is accepting refugees from Syria. If NI leave the EU, they will still be an easy target, for refugees to get over the border. It's not going to stop refugees getting in. I wonder how the people of NI feel about so many people from the UK, claiming Irish passports/citizenship, especially with their past history and the troubles, even if it is all in the name of 'Brexit'? I think UK have too much to lose by exiting.

Ladybird
My FIL is German. He's no great fan of EU so I was quite surprised by his opposition to BREXIT. Until he gave his reason. Peace in Europe since 1945.

It's something that I find missing in the debate here - countries who trade don't war. Perhaps a slightly simplistic statement but he's a child of the war and saw personally the devastation caused.

I feel European. I've lived longer in mainland Europe in my adult life than I have in UK. My kids have dual nationality so we'll be OK. I'll possibly take German nationality if the vote to leave wins.

Thinking about it actually - I was just writing 'I fear for my country' when I realised that my UK home is Scotland. In the event of Brexit, Scotland will have another referendum and this time they'll vote for independence. We could then see a shift of financial services industry, and capital/jobs to Edinburgh, assuming we return to EU.

I don't fear for Scotland as much as o fear for England. And Wales.

Springing

Turkey has been in talks to join for years, way before the refugee crisis.

Albania is NOT in the EU. But it seems to be a model for a post-Brexit UK. Gove's words not mine.

They should, they shouldn't, who knows. It's all very wishy washy. Project fantasy.

Yes, I am not very nice. I used the word fantasy. It hurts, I know.

Just saving as much money as we can at the moment, in case of hard times ahead if we vote to leave. Don't know what the impact will be on interest rates, jobs, so many things really. It's very worrying.

We both have British passports, but luckily, we do have residence rights in two other non-EU countries, so at least we'll have options if things get really bad.

However, I'm really struggling not to resent those who might potentially take away my dd's right to EU citizenship.

Well this thread turned into a childish name calling waste of time

Absolutely nothing.

Beatrix, I am very critical of the EU too, I think the current leadership is short sighted, they lack vision and courage. It's frustrating. But we can't go back, instead we need to change the current leadership so that the EU institutions will be used to advance the European principle of peace and solidarity in Europe. I think the current European enlargement was a mistake, too many countries weren't ready. Also some Eastern countries are selfish and veto everything. But what do you do? Break up the Union is not an option, we must reform from within.
I agree, this point is totally missing from the debate. I wonder why, maybe they fear the British public is not interested? I can see from your post and those of others that instead there is an interest in it. I think the remain campaign would benefit from taking the debate to a higher level of discussion.
My DH is Scottish! He wants independence but favours Brexit. I pointed out the contradiction. He wants out but would happily move to an independent Scotland that is inside the EU that to me sums up the contradictions of the Brexit arguement.
I think the issue is, most Brexit supporters want out regardless of statistcs, etc. They see it as a campaign for "independenc"". Like for the Scottish referendum, people wanted independence and would have voted yes even if they had been worse off financially. I wish the Brexit campaign was just honest about it instead of fabricating excuses and a scenarios that are far from reality or even plausibility.
I did watch the BBC documentary,it's very good. The newsnight debate was very disappointing. The only sensible person there was the guy from Siemens. The PR lady couldn't mention one reason why her business suffers from a lack of bespoke trade agreement with India.

You know the thing I'm always amazed is how people who want out of Europe are all hoping that nothing will change for them.

Spring (bit you're not the oly one btw) is hoping to be in the same position than Turkey. No visa needed to travel, free movement of goods towards Europe etc.. In effect keeping all the advanatges of being in the EU wo all these awful issue assiociated with it.

And then on the other side, people who are voting for Brexit never say a word about

• what do they expect to happen to the EU citizens living in the UK, a lot of which have family, a house, children born in the UK etc...
• what do the expect to happen to all the Brits living in the EU

All the talks pro-Brexit is about controlling immigration, immigration where EU citizens are all included. Just see the reaction re Polish people and how many would be relieved that they cvouldn't come here as they wish. But somehow, there is never a talk about about what would happen to all the German, French, Spanish etc people living here.
There is never a talk about how the UK is going to look after its borders if agreement such as the one at the French border is scrapped, ie that France isn't involved in trying to stop migrants to come in the UK (and stay in France btw, with all the issues coming with it!!).
There is never a talk about what would happen is the EU is getting really pissed off by the UK attitude and decide to get tough.
Or that, actually, after a NO vote, ecomomic realities hit hard and agreements between the EU and the UK actually means we end in a staus quo where things are the same but the UK has no say at all now in what happens in the EU. Read there, no visa needed to come and live in the Uk for EU citizens or no taxes at entry between the UK and the EU.
I have heard British people livingin the EU saying that it wouldn't matter to them because they have lived there for so long that they would be allowed to stand over anyway. Really? No one is thinking that the UK is kicking out EU citizens, they will get upset and will not want to see Britons staying? If they are not... then we go back to the staus quo where actually nothing changes re immigration from the Europe.

And that wo even starting to talk about how the secret services collaborate atm and won't anymore, or not to that level, (ISIS anyone?) etc...

I ahve to say. I have said before that I'm looking at getting a 'forced' british citizenship. But I'm also very aware that the solution migyht well be moving away. Both for immigration type of issue, because I will be made to feel even more unwelcome (and I'm not from one those countries that are not welcome here. The opposite) and for ecominic issues.
In effect, ,my DH, who is british, will join the ranks of the ecomonic immigrants that Bristich people see as such bad people just there to take from this country what isn't theirs. Oh the irony.....

There is never a talk about how the UK is going to look after its borders if agreement such as the one at the French border is scrapped, ie that France isn't involved in trying to stop migrants to come in the UK (and stay in France btw, with all the issues coming with it!!).

The 1993 Sangatte Protocol and the 2003 Le Touquet Treaty aren't connected to the EU.

In effect, my DH, who is british, will join the ranks of the ecomonic immigrants that Bristich people see as such bad people just there to take from this country what isn't theirs.

From what I've seen, the argument is that economic migrants should be able to apply to live in the UK from around the world, rather than just in the EU, and to look at each case on its own merits.

openeurope.org.uk/today/blog/what-would-brexit-mean-for-immigration/

"the UK could potentially adopt different immigration policies to alter the mix of imported skills, nationalities and enforce border control, such as a new visa regime or rules on intra-company transfers. This is broadly the position Douglas Carswell takes on the issue (no, I'm not a UKipper!)

"Perhaps the greatest failing of the immigration system is that it discriminates against precisely the sort of people who, in a world of increasing labour mobility, we might actually want to attract." - Douglas Carswell, The Times, 24 February 2015

UK immigration laws are ridiculous. Does anyone really believe that they'll be better without the restrictions of EU?

We have a situation now that British citizens with a non-EU immigrant spouse are being forced to emigrate because the family income is not over an arbitrary set target and their spouse is being deported. Without the EU protection, this would presumably apply to anyone with a spouse from France, Germany etc.

Added to this, that EU citizens have to work in UK for 3 years before they can claim any benefits.

If we were to stay in UK, and my DH were to lose his job, we'd be stuffed basically.

What a lot of foamy ranting there was last night.

With lots of shouty BOLD type

Maybe MN should provide green ink for the ranters.

Piglet
It's actually quite handy for helping to decide which posts to skim over. There have been some interesting posts about the actual effects that BREXIT could have on people, in between the politics.

I agree with Beatrix, it's not ranting, it's a debate. A debate is always only as good as the people debating it! Or we can be all British about it and pretend there is no referendum (my husband, who's British, has decided he doesn't want to discuss it at home, makes me angry!!)
I am glad I was proved wrong and there are people caring about the idea of a united Europe, there's hope for us all!!!

FlyingScotsman, I agree with the points you make. I think many Western European citizens will move away (especially if the financial services move to, say, Germany). They will be replaced by Commonwealth citizens.

Do you know that non-British EU citizens resident in the UK cannot vote in this referendum, However, non-British Commonwealth citizes resident in the UK can. What a massive conflict of interest.

Bold type has been used to denote clearly where a quote is being made, that's all.

I know lady
I also know they wanted to stop any British citizens living in the EU to vote too...

Springing
So, I disgust you, do I?
Instead of slagging me off, why not ask why I think this?
The Tory party have already cut payments to the disabled, and those dying of cancer, and are altering and cutting the payments even further. Thousands of people have already died of their illnesses within 2 weeks of ATOS declaring them fit for work, and cutting their income, and it is getting worse. Without Europe, we would have no hope.

I am not fit for work myself, and have no personal income at all; we survive on my husband's company pension. What can I do for my friends? I can't pay their bills or take them all into my home. I hardly venture out of the village on my own. I try to provide comfort where I can, the occasional cake or bit of fruit, but my friends shouldn't have to rely on the charity of friends, they should have the support of the social welfare setup created in the middle of the last century. One of our group died of suicide born of desperation last year.
Anyway, one less friend to worry about - she died of her condition last night.

^^ PEAK Project Fear ^^^^

You must be a great friend to stand by while your friends commit suicide.

People who express ridiculous hyperbole like that simply disgust me

Yes, hysterical rants that blame the Tory government for everything while conveniently forgetting that Labour introduced ATOS into the benefits assessment role do disgust me
Yes, posts that claim that the EU us our saviour also dismay me as the evidence I saw of very ill people living rough on the streets of Athens, their suppurating wounds being covered in flies, in a European capital, in the last decade, also suggests to me that the EU is NOT your saviour.

And yes, Buttered, when you repeatedly resort to personal abuse in a childish at remit to conceal the paucity of your argument, you have lost the debate. You may win the referendum through sneaky underhand dishonest project fear, but you lost the moral high ground threads ago

I tried debating with you sensibly for a long time but I don't have the patience of a saint.