Anyone putting any plans in place in case we leave?

[ThroughThickAndThin01]

I've just checked the EU referendum current polls and it's looking very close at the moment.

I wondered if anyone is putting plans on hold, or will change any plans they have if we leave?

Personally, I am wracking my brains to think of anything which will directly affect me. Although I wonder if there will economical turmoil and whether to plan for an interest rate rise (our very high mortgage). Which will in turn affect Dhs business.

If we remain, I'd imagine it's just business as usual.

Anyone have any thoughts?

Springing, a couple of weeks ago you were saying you thought we should leave the single market altogether. What's changed your mind?

The 72 times quoted by Peter Lilly, seems to be thought to be 55 by every other source.

It also, as has been said before takes a lot out of context, the UK is on the winning side of a vote about 90% of the time for example. The 55 times also comes from 1996 and makes up 1.9% of all vote since then.

Supermum, why do you think the deal Norway and Switzerland have is better than being in the EU, out of interest?

Also the economy here in the US is showing strong signs of overheating. Bank bonuses were low this year and the big banks have already started doing layoffs.

buttered I think it covers the issues I am concerned about. Some of the laws introduced by the EU have been good but there is no reason why we can't keep those. The EEA is not a bad option IMO.

It will have a bad effect on the economy, mortgage rates, prices, etc. We're already badly off, so that will be a killer.
I can imagine the government getting rid of a lot more employment rights, so job security will go right down (not great now).
I was hoping to send the DCs to study on the continent as can't afford UK university fees. That is unlikely to be possible.
My work will also be v badly affected, not sure if the business will still be viable.
Being stuck on this small, horribly right-wing all that matters is the rich, island, without any right to emigrate, or for my dcs to emigrate, is something I find hugely depressing. Scotland will win independence (keen to stay in the EU). The Tories will be in power forever.
I want to kill myself now.

Supermum, which issues are you concerned about?

The scientists are pretty adamant that they want to stay in, A4.

The EU has this tendency to throw £millions at our Universities and seems to be particularly fond of funding policy and research units that invariably confirm the EU is wonderful. I will be very happy to see that funding, which is actually UK tax payers money, put to a much better use.

Try the fullfacts.org for some more information
I prefer my information to come from independent sources.

But to be honest, it kind of seems like some people think it's only worth being in the EU if we get our way every time, and then don't think there's anything hypocritical about saying we're being "ruled by Germany" or "dictated to by Brussels bureaucrats"

The EU could agree with the UK on every single vote and I would still want to be out of the EU.

Information sharing. Right now people such as my brother are able to work with other EU military persons and share information with no issues. It all sounds quite efficient actually.

This country is proud of its scientists and after Brexit there will surely be a drive to support them in the UK.

Large science funding programmes such as the EU's research and innovation programme "Horizon 2020" are open to countries outside the EU. Georgia joined Horizon 2020 just the other day.

Some quotes from Harmonisation, EU style, is bad for innovation Matt Ridley, The Times, Feb 16

"The flagship science collaborations of Europe are not confined to the EU at all: they include countries such as Israel, Switzerland and Turkey. CERN’s accelerator crosses an EU border."

"There are about 25,000 lobbyists in Brussels, representing the likes of Big Pharma and Big Green, and they are often in the room when rules get written that erect barriers to entry against irritating new competitors."

"The way in which Volkswagen, using carbon-dioxide emissions as a cover, got the rules rewritten to suit diesel engines and discriminate against petrol engines, despite the fact that nitrogen oxide and particulate emissions from diesel were far higher and more dangerous, was only the most visible such scandal."

"Sir James Dyson was amazed to find that Brussels set energy ratings for vacuum cleaners without testing them filled with dust, because this suited the German bagged vacuum cleaner manufacturers that he threatened."

"Look at how the use of biotechnology in agriculture, with its proven ability to cut pesticide use, has been stymied by green politicians from certain implacably conservative countries."

"Then there’s the “precautionary principle”, formally written into EU thinking and widely interpreted to mean that only the harms, not the benefits, of new technologies must be considered. This has repeatedly prevented the displacement of bad technologies by better ones."

Yes, I think the information safe harbour is EEA-wide.

But what negative things about our EU membership are you concerned about, and do you think that being in the EEA would resolve them?

The UK is outvoted more than any other member

ukandeu.ac.uk/explainers/does-the-uk-win-or-lose-in-the-council-of-ministers/

A4, look at what has happened to Switzerland's EU science funding since they started trying to restrict free movement. The free movement issue is the real biggie. It is a deal breaker if you really want full access to the single market.

A4, look at what has happened to Switzerland's EU science funding since they started trying to restrict free movement. The free movement issue is the real biggie. It is a deal breaker if you really want full access to the single market

The way the EU treated Switzerland is not a good advertisement for staying in the EU. Quite the reverse.

It's just an example of how you can't expect to be able to make your own rules and still get all the benefits of being part of the club. That's all.

Spring from your source:

"put the other way round, the UK voted on the winning side 97.4% of the time in 2004-09 period and 86.7% of the time in the 2009-15 period."

"Nevertheless, there are some important caveats against inferring too much from this evidence. First, overwhelmingly the Council decides by consensus, as very few votes are taken, and even when votes are taken the UK is on the winning majority side almost 87% of the time."

Also it states that the UK has become far more oppositional since the election of the Conservatives in 2010:

"In short, the official voting records of the EU Council suggest that there has been a significant shift in the positions on the UK in the Council between 2004-09 and 2009-15. "

This doesn't represent marginalisation of the UK at all.

It's just an example of how you can't expect to be able to make your own rules and still get all the benefits of being part of the club. That's all.

Switzerland is in the EEA - that's the club it belongs to. . Switzerland is not in the EU club. It has a bilateral agreement wit the EU.

The EU had better be careful. People don't like having to vote time and time again until they give the EU the result it wants.

The UK is outvoted more than any other member

ukandeu.ac.uk/explainers/does-the-uk-win-or-lose-in-the-council-of-ministers/

Switzerland isn't in the EEA. It has a series of bilateral agreements with the EU. It broke the terms of those agreements and had its funding cut as a result.

lemonitoba

Britain isn't a "right wing country" just because the Tories are in power at the moment. List of British Prime Ministers We can vote for a different government at every general election, but we can't vote out the EU. No, the Tories won't be in power forever I'm not keen on the Tories either, and I don't believe Cameron and Osborne's spin about a "reformed EU" that hasn't been achieved.

The EU is home of the "all that matters is the rich". Corporate lobbyists influence policies that will benefit themselves against smaller competing businesses. Only 6 per cent of UK businesses trade with the EU, and smaller businesses would have more chance to thrive if we left the EU.

People have studied, worked and moved abroad before the EU existed and this will surely be the case after Brexit too.

I don't think this country has an appetite for rights to be removed. The UK has a strong history of human rights, dating back to the Magna Carta of 1215. Legislation such as the Abortion Act 1967 and the Equal Pay Act 1970 were introduced long before we joined the EU in 1992. The UK's own Equality Act of 2010 would continue after a Brexit. The Domestic Violence Act and the Employment Protection Act were passed independently of the EU, and the Divorce Reform Act was passed before we joined the EU.

We send millions of pounds to the EU each week and the smaller amount we get back is only for spending as the EU sees fit.

Switzerland isn't in the EEA. It has a series of bilateral agreements with the EU. It broke the terms of those agreements and had its funding cut as a result

You're quit right. I was wondering how we got onto the subject of Switzerland.

I like your vision of the UK, A4, but it isn't really consistent with a country that votes in the Tories. And if Scotland goes independent - which I think they almost certainly will if we leave the EU - then I can see us being stuck with the Tories for decades.

Spring, I've just quoted you excerts from this article that say that you shoudln't take this evidence too much into account.

"Nevertheless, there are some important caveats against inferring too much from this evidence. First, overwhelmingly the Council decides by consensus, as very few votes are taken, and even when votes are taken the UK is on the winning majority side almost 87% of the time."

It also states that the UK government has been more willing to vote against council movements since 2009 which indicates that the Conservative Government has been more oppositional.

The whole point is that we should not be in an organisation that is handing us laws to implement that we have voted against.

So you don't think we should be in the EEA then, Spring?