Would like to chat about Less

[WhitegreeNcandle]

So, I’ve just read Patrick Grants book Less and found it really thought provoking. I’ve never bought from places like SHEIN but I had been trundling along thinking I was doing ok. Since reading it I’ve realised how much tat we are surrounded by and I don’t want to be a part of it any more. I hadn’t realised how insidious it’s become really. It’s not just the quality of stuff it’s about how the economy could work on a quality scale.

Would love to just chat about easy swaps to make. Preferably cheap ones and it is a more expensive lifestyle I think. I went into our local refill shop yesterday and found there is a local company who do cleaning refills. Manufactured within 20 miles of where I live, reusable glass bottles etc.

Wow, this never even occured to me and it's so simple. Thank you.

I do the same , it also means you can get more rubbish to fit in your wheelie bin because bags leave gaps between themselves and the bin. ( think how footballs would look if you could see through the side off your bin ) but loose rubbish fills all the gaps.

I wonder how many of them actually know what to do with bulk bought kidney beans?

Make loads of ramja, obviously! I do a bag of beans' worth once a year so we have an instant curry in the freezer for whenever we want one.

Same with lentils for daal.

For those saying to avoid Primark, Primark are actually working really hard to be more sustainable and to support their growers and garment makers. The majority of their clothes contain recycled or sustainably sourced materials, and they're working towards 100% by 2030.

Have you read the book that we are discussing? Because your comment seems a bit off topic. You can’t make a T-shirt that retails for under £5 without someone being exploited along the line. The book explains how.

@narniabusiness it’s also the quality factor I think. Primark hems come undone after just one wash. I’ve been inspecting seams since reading this book and I had no idea (or had never noticed) that places like primark just overstitch two bits together whereas my Barbour shirt has a fancy double sewn flat seam. It’s lasted three years so far and I wear it at least twice a week!

I've not had that experience with Primark clothes.
I agree that they are not going to last like your Barbour shirt. I think there's a place for trying to improve things at the Primark / M&S price points, as well as encouraging people to buy really good quality clothes.

If you're worried about space in your landfill wheelie bin, you'd be better off thinking about how to reduce the amount you throw away.

Ours is emptied fortnightly and is rarely more than one third full.

Re Primark. You can’t improve things at that price point. For £5 you get low quality fabric stitched quickly by someone paid a pittance. The garment doesn’t last long before it looks tatty. It is then worthless. No charity shop can sell it and it goes to landfill. That’s what ‘Less’ is trying to explain.
Contrast with our hypothetical quality shirt. It provides a decent wage for those involved in its manufacture. It lasts longer without looking tatty. Should the original owner not want it anymore it can be sold and someone would be pleased to buy it.
But it takes a whole book to explain this which is why I asked whether you had read it.

I use an Amazon wish list for books I want to buy as I read a lot of reviews. Then I go to actual bookshops to buy them and delete them from the list. Feels like sticking it to "the man", although the man doesn't notice.

Have you seen Patrick Grant's website? - massively overpriced dull clothes.

@Mischance Have you read the book???

They’re not meant to be exciting.
They are meant to be well made basics of quality materials that will last, made in the UK in factories that pay their staff properly.
Which is exactly what they are, I have several things which I wear all the time and they are wearing brilliantly. Given how well they are lasting they have been very decent value.

You are like the opposite of people who go and look at things in bricks and mortar shops and then buy them online more cheaply on Amazon.

This is a wonderful thread. Thanks OP.

Well exactly. They are designed to be the antithesis of "fast fashion". Basics like Breton tops and work trousers which are going to last forever. And expensive because they are well-made and pay the staff who make them a fair wage.

I understand why they are expensive of course. But expensive is a luxury that many cannot possibly afford.

And well made and ethically produced need not mean dull, as these garments are.

You haven’t said whether you’ve read the book Mischance so I think you probably haven’t. Expensive is a luxury that many cannot possibly afford’ is a concept that is discussed at length. Briefly it is a waste of money to buy cheap shoes as they need replacing regularly as they wear out. By contrast the expensive shoes can be repaired and last for years. The problem comes if you can never save enough money to buy the expensive shoes in the first place and are trapped in a cycle of buying cheap shoes that are constantly having to be replaced.
There is another issue at play too, and that is the quantity of clothing that we have come to believe is necessary. A crew neck wool jumper on that website is £80. That’s a lot more than a jumper in M&S made of synthetic fibres. So if my clothing budget for this A/W is £80, am I better off adding 1 quality jumper or 3 cheaper ones to my wardrobe? The book ‘Less’ argues that it is preferable to buy just 1 for many reasons. The book is well worth reading.

One more point - the book has lists of manufacturers of lots of different products. So he would agree that there are other ethical producers out there.

We all know that cheap shoes wear out quicker and need replacing and that buying quality in the first place and repairing is the ideal .... none of us need a rich celebrity to tell us that! Nor do we need to boost his income by buying his book!
But not everyone can do that cos we are not all rich enough to buy the quality pair in the first place!
He is on another planet .......

Fast fashion isn’t kept afloat by the people who can only afford one pair of the cheapest possible shoes. It’s the people buying many pairs who do have a choice and are choosing to buy quantity rather than quality, with all the associated costs to the planet.

I really think you need to read the book @Mischance because you haven't really got the message at all.

The book is not preachy. It is not telling you what to buy and what not to buy. It's more about why quality of everything has gone down in the last few decades, why people have bought into this idea of a stuff explosion and fast fashion, and how we are losing the skills of repairing and making which we have had for generations.

Yes it is about buy good and buy once where possible. But also being aware of the issues around fast fashion and recognising it as an issue. No Primark is not ideal but if you have no other budget, then buying a cotton t-shirt from there and keeping it until it falls to bits and then using it as a cleaning rag is better than buying multiple t-shirts each season. Also discussions about how nobody needs wardrobes bursting with clothes, if you are interested in having less, then you do that by purchasing key basics which last years on end which you accessorise or mix and match. Rather than a "haul" from an online retailer every 2 months.

I am not prepared to line his pocket by getting the book. I am sure that all the points he makes are entirely valid - I do not doubt that for a moment - but they do not tally with the lives of many.

He has made his living out of fashion - out of selling clothes to people and now he is telling them to buy less for the sake of the planet! A good piece of advice, but he can afford to give that now his customers have made him comfortably off!

He bought a bespoke tailors in Saville Row. I am sure his customers did not stint themselves in the quantity of unnecessary clothing they bought - but they bought quality because they could afford it. It is why he is now rich.

It has taken him a long while to see the light ...........

If you make your living out of fashion you cannot tell people to stop enjoying having lovely (and fun) clothes - that is what fashion is about - it is not about need. I bet his wardrobe is stuffed with clothes he does not need .......

I share the abhorrence of rampant media-led consumerism that is wrecking the planet in clothing as in anything else. And I do not shop at Shein or any of the other unethical producers. But then I worry about how these downtrodden workers will feed their families if we all indulge our consciences and do not buy what they produce .......

Being an ethical consumer is a complex business in this global world.

Patrick Grant's net worth is not publicly disclosed, but his businesses had revenues of approximately £75 million annually in 2018.

He has made all this money from selling people clothes that they do not necessarily need, but want. He is in no position to tell anyone else how to spend their money.

Now I have nothing against him - he seems a decent guy and is of course rather handsome - but he would not be my go-to for ethical consumer advice. He is now making more money out of this book!

The book goes into a lot of detail about the failure of his businesses, which is quite unusual and refreshing.

Of course you don’t have to read it if you don’t want to, though I don’t know why you keep going on about not wanting to give him money- libraries exist- but I wish you would stop representing the book as something it’s not.