Would like to chat about Less

[WhitegreeNcandle]

So, I’ve just read Patrick Grants book Less and found it really thought provoking. I’ve never bought from places like SHEIN but I had been trundling along thinking I was doing ok. Since reading it I’ve realised how much tat we are surrounded by and I don’t want to be a part of it any more. I hadn’t realised how insidious it’s become really. It’s not just the quality of stuff it’s about how the economy could work on a quality scale.

Would love to just chat about easy swaps to make. Preferably cheap ones and it is a more expensive lifestyle I think. I went into our local refill shop yesterday and found there is a local company who do cleaning refills. Manufactured within 20 miles of where I live, reusable glass bottles etc.

Great thread - thanks for starting and hoping for great tips. Swapping shower gel for soap is an easy win - no plastic and a better product

Oh I haven't read that book. I do try and buy second hand and things that last. I am noticing how much plastic packaging I throw away though and decluttering so just things that got past their useful life very quickly.

i found it shocking how much has changed in the last 40 years. If I think back to my childhood in the 80’s apples didn’t come in plastic bags that can only be recycled at a store. We certainly didn’t have as many clothes as we do now and what we had was better made.

We've started using smol refills and I've really noticed a reduction in the number of handwash and washing up plastic bottles going to recycling.

I also miss the times when you could buy unpackaged fruit and veg or get meat from the butchers easily. With both of these things, you could just buy what you needed instead of being restricted by a plastic pack size.

Thank you for the book recommendation OP, I will have a look at it.

+1 for smol!

Thanks for the smol recommendation. They look similar to the local company I’ve found so will try my local one first. I need hardcore washing capability though as a livestock farmer so will try it if my local one doesn’t come up to the job!

Today’s purchase needs to be black tights for DD school. I’d previously have Amazoned it but am trying to avoid them now after reading how little tax they pay in the UK. I can get to M&S, primark and next easily. Any advice as to which is best? Or any good online ethical children’s (well teens really) brands?

Well, the little local refill store that I’d found this week announced its closing last night! That’s a shame. There’s one near my kids school so might try that. It has no parking though and only open 10-4 so really annoying times.

I think if you're putting a 'really noticeable' amount of plastic bottles in the recycling, you could probably also think about how much product you're using.

I use what seems to me like the right amount, but then I see people on here talking about what sounds like to me huge amounts of cleaning and laundry products, toiletries etc, eg they're buying these things every week.

To me they last a couple of months at least so to get through a bottle of anything in a week or two a lot must be uselessly going down the drain or you must be cleaning things that don’t need it.

Also a lot of these 'greener' solutions like glass and paper are very energy intensive to produce and recycle and are heavier so take more energy to transport.

So it's not always a case that alternatives to plastic are a better option, it could well be that, as long as its not dumped in the sea, plastic is the most sustainable choice.

I think there's a lot more that big business can do to reduce waste, rather than rely on the public to responsibly deal with things they never wanted in the first place, for example if you buy a single item from a lot of online retailers you have to try really hard to avoid being sent multiple brochures forever more.

Likewise junk mail through the door, all printed on high quality paper and all totally unnecessary. Plus you only need to look at a website to then receive endless marketing emails even if you never bought anything. They all require storage and internet traffic which again uses lots of energy.

@Bjorkdidit one of the other points in the book is not just treating the planet right, it's treating people right too. So instead of using Amazon that pays less tax try and use local businesses. That really struck a cord with me.

I don't buy anything from Amazon, DH buys loads, really annoys me. I often search on there, but then look for that product from a local store, it's often cheaper!

I don't buy from mass market online clothes stores, have very few clothes, which last for years. DD's buy mostly from Vinted.

We are not by nature a high consumption family, probably because we both had older parents brought up during the war.

If I look around my house most things are very old .... We are actually terrible at spending money and keep things way beyond their expected life span.

I think the key is just to buy less. Modern living is constantly pressurising to buy, buy, buy. To be that perfect looking, shiny, new person, with all the mod cons.

I am an advertisers/influencers worst nightmare. Completely don't care about "stuff".

You can sometimes get bundles of kids tights on Vinted.
I read this recently and am trying to buy UK made clothing for Christmas presents (waiting to see if a particular colour comes back into stock at Community Clothing). I used to buy from People Tree but they don't trade in the UK any more. Basics from Earth Wardrobe are good.

Charity shops often have loads of tights I find. New ones normally in baskets.

We used to use Smol but gave up because it became so difficult to get the laundry pods out of the packaging.

We now use laundry sheets - they come in cardboard packaging, just pop one into the washing machine and they work brilliantly.

We are lucky because, where we live, we have a fabulous greengrocer/deli along the road and an independent butcher a 10 minute walk away. I take my own bags/tubs for purchases.

This is an excellent idea for a thread, @WhitegreeNcandle ,thanks for starting it. I noticed you said you’re a livestock farmer so it reminded me that it’s so important flot those of us who eat meat to respect the animal and use the whole carcass including the less popular cuts. Not only are they highly nutritious but they can produce wonderful food. I’m following for more tips.

I've read the book which I bought second hand in a charity shop (Patrick would approve).

It's not about swapping from shower gel to soap, or taking a reusable bag when you go shopping.

It's more about the recent phenomenon of having loads of stuff for every occasion and a new wardrobe of clothing every 5 minutes. Patrick's background is clothing and that's what he concentrates on - there is lots of discussion around manufacturing, repairing and relative quality of clothing now and in the past.

His ethos is very much buy good, buy once. He also says he appreciates that not everyone can afford to drop £100 on a shirt, but discusses the consequences to the environment on 10 shirts at £10 each. Things like having a wardrobe of reliable staples which last for decades and can be mixed and matched with other things. Repairing things, putting new soles on your shoes. Living the way our grnadparents used to live.

I agreed with a lot of what he said, my user name probably indicates what I think of cheap Chinese websites flooding the market with tat. I buy a lot of stuff second hand already and am not particularly interested in fashion.

@EveryKneeShallBow (every tongue confess him...King of Glooooory, now...!)

Funnily enough DD has chosen to go to a pancake parlour for lunch today for her birthday. She was explaining the concept to 80 year old Gran which lead to a discussion in childhood differences (DD is 11). Gran was telling us about how one of her favourite meals as a child was Ox tongue - DD was flabbergasted!

@SheinIsShite I think that's what I was trying to say - it's not always about buying different, just buying less and buying it better. Not just the quality but the process and company ethos.

I bang on about it in farming all the time - we struggle to compete with imported meat/eggs because our labour costs are so high, quite rightly we have to pay a fair wage. In fact, I'd argue we should be paying more than NMW but that's what the supermarkets base our costs on. Other countries just don't have the H&S, food safety auditing requirements that we do. I always buy from UK farms where possible and I shockingly hadn't really thought about other items I buy.

After buying fancy expensive clothes wash for years, I’ve gone back to basics and now used boxed own brand clothes wash.

I was looking for low scent & I have found cheap, effective low scent powder in a box, no plastic, cleans well & it lasts for ages.

I’ve found dishwashing options harder to come by. Fairy lasts the longest. Seems to be the best choice.

We use bar soap. A cardboard box of 8 goat milk soaps from Tk max will last us over a year of showers.

I strongly agree with the "use less" mantra. I don't understand how people manage to go through gallons of cleaning product a week! I'm also not above leaving packaging at the supermarket checkout if I think it's unnecessary.

I also think it's very easy to get tied up in small changes that are not effective, whilst ignoring the elephant in the room. I also see lots of people (not necessarily on this thread) becoming all evangelical about less or similar things - and then immediately buying up the entire contents of smol/descending on their local refills shop etc. I wonder how many of them actually know what to do with bulk bought kidney beans?

Im about to read this book. It was our book club suggestion and I'm really pleased (although I think it might have been a veiled dig at a couple of our shopaholic members..)

On the household goods thing it's not just swapping the packaging and buying refills but thinking about whether you really need the product. 25 years ago there were no 10 different cleaning products for kitchen, bathroom, floors etc, you used the same for everything. (We use diluted Stardrops which is fab). Nobody was buying laundry disinfectant and there was no scary advertising about germs on the carpet.Nobody used one of those plastic puff things in the shower, they either used nothing, or a towelling facecloth.

It's taking a second to think - what benefit is this really adding to my life?

I’m half way through the book and it does make you think . I’ve never been one for buying cheap clothes , nor have I needed a new outfit every Saturday night . I’ve always bought fewer clothes but better quality. The question of ethics in a lot of things is difficult because millions of people have to buy cheap clothes and cheap food so it will be produced . IME it’s a lot of younger people buying £10 dresses all the time because they have social media pictures to take and there’s a pressure to wear different things . Tbh I think this horse has bolted .

Exactly. How many of them have bought a load of matching jars from B&M or similar to show off their unpackaged kidney beans or cleaning products on social media?

His core message in Less is twofold

1. Buy good, buy once if you can afford to. Or at least buy as good as you can afford with the intention to keep it until it falls to bits with no chance of repair. Like our grandparents did.
2. Stay out of the compulsion to buy endless stuff which is hugely damaging to the environment. Not just clothes, just think the seasonal section in Home Bargains or TK Maxx.

On the refills thing - we have a shop doing that round here and it is lots more expensive than buying standard. I eat oats every day and like the posh ones from the Co-Op or Waitrose which are about £2 a box. British-grown oats. The refill shop is about 25% more expensive.

Patrick's book was fascinating and so well written. The research that went into it must have taken him years.

The most amazing facts for me were that about a third of clothes produced are never bought and just go straight to waste. The waste of the earth's precious resources is just awful and utterly unsustainable. Another shocker is how, in the last 100 years quality has declined and in the last 10 years it has fallen off a cliff.

He was preaching to the converted with me. I have a tiny house, little stuff, grow my own food wherever possible, keep hens, drive an ancient van and ride a bike my dad found in a hedge in the 1980s.

My hobby is running vintage market stalls selling household stuff like old linen, kitchen tools, art, mirrors china etc. I buy it at car boot sales, auctions, junk shops and find it at my local recycling centre or in skips more often than I can say. Some stuff is 'free to collector' outside houses or on local social media. It is AMAZING what people will throw away. Why?

My top tip (not as a marketing ploy honestly) is to get old stuff. Older things are free/a bargain 99% of the time and almost certainly will be much better made than anything you can buy now. An Argos bedside table will cost £40 and last 3 years. A vintage one will cost £20 and will outlive you.