How can I get my sil to stop using pampers and those hideous smelly orange nappy bags?

[alhambra]

that's it really. Gorgeous new baby, lovely family. Very right on in so many ways, so I was totally shocked to see them using VASELINE, PAMPERS and those repulsive orange nappy bags that do not biodegrade in 600 years. I didn't say anything, as thought - aw, they are still getting used to things - but then I thought, no somewhere along the line they have made a DECISION to do this. I really want to say something but a)obviously it's not my baby and b)I remember when I had dd1 and my sister tried to make me take all her old manky reusable nappies and I rebelled, although only to Moltex.

Only have the one!!!

No shares in vaseline, but I have this stubborn side!

but in many cases unless you can afford collection service disposable nappies use less resources than reusables when take in to account washing and drying it is just they use different resources

... until you're a GRANNY, that is, twiglett!

Not sure if this has already been said, too many threads to read but Moltex, while their manufacturing process is more sustainable, also end up in land fill. (which is what the original poster objected too) And from what I've read, don't biodegrade any better than big brand nappies because the conditions in landfil are not right. So the OP implying that she was superior using the 'eco' friendly disposables is mislead. She's leaving one big dusty carbon footprint herself, as we all are. While I use the so called 'eco' friendly disposables myself, I'm aware that all it's doing is easing my own conscience, it doesn't make me superior.

i think you are being a bit mean to your sil,,, i bf, use re-usable nappies, my wonderful sil is pregnant, and i tihnk will do neither, and i will be there to support her with any of her choices. Being a mum is hard enough without sowing doubt. and if anyone asks me about non-disposables i say there are lots to choose from and we have saved a fortune...incentive enough as children are v. expensive.

Aloha PLEASE tell me you don't eat that vile devil's cream

oh god interfering in-laws, poor woman she has my sympathies

I would have been really grateful for information about other types of nappies, especially when my first was tiny - i didnt have a clue. I used pampers and orange nappy sacks as i didnt know any better.

I agree that which nappies and other bottom bits a parent chooses to use are totally up to that parent, however knowledge increases those choices.

There is a big difference between forcing your own choices on another (with all the FFS-ing and interfering that this is likely to be felt) and offering experience and information.

There is not really any need for all or nothing thinking that using cloth nappies means they absolutely must live in a yurt, never watch tv or let their child drink a friut shoot at a party. Gradual small changes is what most people can manage.

To the OP, i would have been grateful for this discussion from a caring family member, but at the end of the day the choice would have been mine.

Ok - just crawling out from under stone - no actually been at SIL's all day looking after niece whilst sil has hair cut. Tonight am babysitting niece whilst sil and bro go out. (Supportive SIL emoticon).
Right. OK.
I think some of you might have imagined that I was going to stand there hectoring and lecturing a lactating, weeping, bleeding, hormonal new mother about the evils of pampers. Clearly that would be insane and umsympathetic. Whilst there may be environmentalists who would do that, I wouldn't. As I said, I HAVE SAID NOTHING. The baby is not brand new either, she is 4 months, and I still havne't said anything.
But I am an environmentalist, that is what I do, and I feel hypocritical not saying anything. It is all about how, finding a moment. I am SO aware of the issues of being a new mother which is WHY I HAVE SAID NOTHING.
AS for it not being my business, I totally disagree. How on earth are we supposed to get carbon emissions down 90% by 2030 if we just let things pass? It's very British, and mealy mouthed, not to say anything, but the fact is that we are in crisis, and I love my niece and want her to have a world to inherit. And you have to start small, and it is SO EASY To use reusable nappies.
Pannacotta has done a good job of presenting the arguments, and I thought someone would trot out that survey. IIRC it was actually sponsored by P &G or someone, and was based on a family of 4 kids who tumble dried their nappies at peak electricity prices. Not wildly convincing, although I agree it's important to interrogate.
As for being judgmental, I posted on the environmental thread because I wanted to talk to other people who are interested in the environment, who might understand why I feel the way I do. And youse lot who just jump in for a bunfight, well that's fine because that's part of the sport of mumsnet, but it's a bit pot and kettle. Although I loved Aloha's poignant paen to vaseline.
Still at least I got an environmental thread into active conversations for 24 hours, surely that is a first. .

FWIW, I thought you got a very raw deal on this thread, alhambra. Some bizarrely angry responses! All sorts of sublimated resentments against in-laws, environmentalists, people who've been unsupportive in unspecified ways...

only read the op, skim read the thread, and alhambra's latest post.

What I would say is that I totally agree that reusables are fab. I switched to them for ds2 and love them. I love the nappies themselves and I love using them.

But.

If anyone had tried to make me use them for ds1 and dd there is NO way I would have done - it was something I had to come to myself. Dh did suggest it with ds1 and I just couldn't imagine being able to, I got really stressed about the idea of it. But, once I realised with ds2 that I could do it, I got really excited about it. Now I know I've put loads of disposables into landfills, and I'm not proud of that. But I am quite proud of the fact that ds2 isn't putting any in there.

So, I think trying to persuade her might actually have the opposite effect (it would with me). Could you maybe buy her a couple as a present, maybe saying something like 'don't know if you've come across these, thought you might like some just in case you want to try them, I really like them' and leave it at that. No grief about polluting the planet!

Also agree alhambra got a v raw deal on this thread, I cannot see why people have been so angry and outraged with the concept of pointing out environmental options to close family...
Also agree that it is important to keep up the eco debate, which means talking to people about the choices they make and the impact they have.
I use a combo of cloth and Moltex with my DS and would have been quite open minded had I used Pampers and someone pointed out to me there were other possibilities which were more eco friendly.
We all have a responsibilty to try and be more eco aware, whether we accept this or not, for future generations if not our own...

Alhambra, I think the main problem was the tone of the post title and your original post, if you had put it words like in your last post not as nearly as many peopl would have jumped on you, but as I keep saying, you can;t always read these messages properly.

If you do decide to say something, good luck i hoep it goes well, however I still think that leading by example might be better. if she is as clued up as you say, if she sees you using them she may well ask questions which is what happened between me and my sil.

I also dont think that there was any need for any of the insults that started flying round, though I may not have agreed with you initially, I don;t think that people name calling helped anyone either.

Anyway, enjoy the rest of the weekend.

SIt may be better for the envirronment if she didn't use pammpers and nappy sacks. But the baby is her child and she should be allowed to make her own decisions. also she will be feeling vunrable at the moment and may getvery upset if you tried to stop her using these things.

alhambra, you've put it much better in your last post.

I think tortoise is right though: she has to make the decision herself, for her own reasons.

Unless she's a hermit living in a cave, she'll have heard of reusables. When the new baby fog lifts a bit, she might well start thinking about this herself and knowing that you use them, she might come to you for advice..... problem solved.

But it has to be her idea.

Also PMSL at Aloha's staunchness in the face of the angry pitchfork-wielding anti-vaseline mob.

Glass houses and all that, until we are perfect ourselves with regards to our contribution/ destruction of the environment we really shouldn't be pushing someone else to do what we think they should. I'm sure she has enough to worry about without having to justify using vaseline FGS.

Perhaps some people are contributing in other ways.

Alhambra, I wish I had posted properly earlier when people were being really unnecessarily angry and vile - still think it is the use of the word duty - hate that word - that got people's backs up, but thought it was really the ugly face of mumsnet with people clearly not reading the op properly and being really arrogant and judgmental themselves whilst accusing you of same. Had you done something to offend all these people in an earlier thread? Trying to find one in the archive, otherwise don't understand.
Of course you can't MAKE her stop using pampers, but I suspect you were being slightly ironic. You can go in softly, with a leaflet or green magazine, and you can gently steer the conversation. It sounds as though you are way ahead of most of us on the green stakes and it is obviously really important to you - I don't see it as interfering at all - it's just how you do it.

is this still going on?
i would have been greatful and open to suggestions.i use cloth now but with first 2 children had no idea,i used what was available in local chemist(pampers or huggies).if someone had told me then more about cloth or even something like moltex,id have been so greatful.i cant say whether i would have taken on advicce but it would have been good to know options.

I remember when I was pregnant with my twins (my first babies) that I was determined to use reusable nappies. As a polymer chemist I'm very aware of the fact that most polymers are not biodegradeable due to most being cross-linked in order to retain their structural integrity. To address this, I have carried out research in the past (personally as well as well as funding PhD and post-doctoral students) on creating biodegradeable polymers through the use of reversible cross-links but there is still a lot of research required.

After my twins were born, I was totally overwhelmed and clueless about what to do with one baby let alone two. Despite my good intentions, I went straight onto disposables. There is no way I could have coped with having to wash a bunch of nappies everyday for two babies that required changing six or seven times a day and even more when they had gastric problems.

Unless a person uses no polymers at all (including contact lenses, electronic equipment [they contain polymeric parts], cars, public transport, CD and DVD cases etc, acrylic clothing or carpets, nylon tights), then to judge someone for using disposable nappies is being sanctimonious.

Of course we should all do as much as we can to reduce waste. It is just that, imo, picking on things like disposal nappies is an easy and visible target.

As a final thought, has anyone notice that eco friendly cleaners like Ecover (I think that is the name)come in plastic containers?

Well I am one of those mums who started off with great world saving intentions at the birth of my first. Bought all the reusables and switched to disposables after a day. I just couldn't be bothered with it all. Yes I understand the logic behind it but IMHO parents are never going to have a complete turn around back to using washables. Disposables are too convenient. I agree that there are more bio-friendly options but they are more expensive. I put all this to my local nappy tzsar at the council and suggested that the council do more to encourage use of the more bio-friendly ones by providing recycling wormeries, subsidies like they do for re-useables etc. but nothing has happened yet. I do many other things trying to be green but re-useable nappies just too much hassle

Thank god for Aloha. I was beginning to think I was poisoning my son for using Vaseline on him when his nose/mouth is sore from a cold. I use it as well when I have a cold sometimes.

As for nappies - I use pampers and probably also sometimes use orange nappy sacks as the bio degradeable ones are pointless if you are going to put a non-biodegradeable nappy in it. On the whole I don't use nappy bags actually but do if ds does a particularly bad poo while we are out and I have to take it home with me.

I did look into re-usable but in the early days of ds's birth it would have killed me off and anyway my pnd meant it was the last thing on my mind at the time. Then later when I could have made the switch I was put off by

1 the intial investment (ds only child so I wouldn't be able to use them again).

2 The fact that it all seemes sooooo complicated and frankly rather dull to get my head around (all that tots and wraps and fleece stuff). None of it made any sense to me and I just wasn't interested enough to get my head around what to buy.

On a (hopefully) more helpful note to the OP. You could try offering information (without making it sound judgmental) .

You could start with a little lie eg- say something like. 'Oh I remember in the early day how hard all the nappy stuff seemed and I used disposables for a while (even if you didn't) but I switched to (whatever you use) as it was (list the reasons)

In the end though your sil may have different priorities to you and may ignore you. Is it really that big a deal for you as you seem to think she is an OK person except for this obviously terrible lapse in judgement?