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Ethical dilemmas
Original poster

Hand holding please - About to throw my whole life overboard.

254 replies

MissGarth · 24/09/2013 13:23

Tonight me and DH are leaving an organisation that is basically our whole life- all our friends are there, we spend all our free time there, we use our gifts in a voluntary capacity there and the long term plan was that the organisation would be our employer, in a field we have wanted to work in all our lives.

And now we are leaving.

Can't say more about the organisation until we have told them.

I feel so sick and so frightened.

We have no doubt we will be cut off from all our friends and never hear from anyone again. It is going to be very lonely. There are lots of people there we genuinely love.

I'm also frightened about what they will say about us when we leave. We know of other people who have left and they all seem to have left after extremely poor/ shockingly bad behaviour...which we now realise, of course, is crap.

Thank God for DH.

OP posts:
Original poster
MissGarth · 06/10/2013 18:08

I had been told by him of some accusations...not the full story, obviously, but I naively believed him and didn't look into any further.

But then after it was all decided the order was uploaded onto a government website a couple of months later and when you Google this persons name the link to the full prohibition order comes up on page 1 of the google search.

Possibly it was published at the same time as the hearing and it just takes google a while to find things, possibly it takes them time to write everything up etc (it is a big document) i don't know...anyway it was some time after it was all decided that it appeared and we realised we had been told a lesser version of events if that makes sense.

I do know what he did, don't want to go into detail, but wasn't physical contact, think of a sexting type thing with a pupil. It doesn't really matter as the point to me is not what he did but that it makes him considered unsafe if that makes sense and so the church shouldn't just be ignoring it on the grounds that he says it was all lies...I think if the person is then they should try and clear their name and either stand down or cease unsupervised contact until they can as per the order. But the hushing it up thing and carrying on like nothing has happened is why we left.

OP posts:
MrsCakesPremonition · 06/10/2013 18:11

On my phone, I can block individual callers so that I simply don't get their calls any more. It is a useful step if you still want to keep your old number.

Please don't apologise to us for your strength of feeling - it sounds necessary and justified. I've been on MN for years and have heard a lot, lot stronger. So you go ahead and vent here if it helps you feel strong.

BillyBanter · 06/10/2013 18:16

An honourable person would step down so as not to bring the church into disrepute. You see it all the time (though I expect a lot of the time they are pressured into stepping down). They would put the church before themselves. He obviously thinks himself and his own position more important than child protection laws or the church.

Original poster
MissGarth · 06/10/2013 18:22

The funny thing is I do know more than ever that we did the right thing and that we were not confused by the devil in leaving....so I suppose it is silly to be upset...

I think it is mainly because we hold this elder in very high regard...he is in no way dishonest or manipulative, and we are sad that he thinks we have been led astray....

But it is daft to be upset really as I knew when I started this thread that when we left it would mean losing our friends.

OP posts:
RandomMess · 06/10/2013 18:43

I think it's difficult when you know other people have been mislead. I think I would consier replying to this elder possibly along the lines of "those allegations are proven and he is breaching the court by being in contact with children" with a link to the published findings.

You are still in a horrible position and you are not spreading gossip plus this elder has approached you and you are responding to that. It is so dangerous to leave this man in charge of a church.

All you can do is pray and pray and pray so you have peace about whether you respond to this elder or not.

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee · 06/10/2013 19:05

Would you consider replying along the lines of 'It was not a false allegation. It resulted in a prohibition order which you can see for yourself [here]. It was then lied about and covered up - we will not be a party to that, hence us having no option but to leave. We are sad to be losing the friendship of those, like you, who we looked up to, but we have to do what we know is right'

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee · 06/10/2013 19:07

There is nothing wrong with making sure people are as correctly informed about the situation as you can - if you want to. I know I would.

BillyBanter · 06/10/2013 19:10

that's a good reply. I'd maybe add 'we are not turning away from god, nor to the devil but away from one person whose actions we cannot in good faith ignore'.

BillyBanter · 06/10/2013 19:13

although replying might just get you tangled up in more toing and froing so not replying is also good.

Original poster
MissGarth · 06/10/2013 19:16

I will pray about whether to say more to him.

I think the suggested replys v good.

I do struggle with whether it is gossip, and are my motives pure in doing so, need to pray

OP posts:
Original poster
MissGarth · 06/10/2013 19:17

x post with Billy.
Yes I think that is also right

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MrsCakesPremonition · 06/10/2013 19:22

It would be gossip if you were volunteering the information to people who have no interest and no need to know.

IMO clarifying the facts to people who should be aware and who ought to be acting on that information, is not gossip.

RevelsRoulette · 06/10/2013 19:30

tbh, I'd just reply with a link to the order. It is a matter of public record, after all. I fail to see why he should be protected in any way.

LunaticFringe · 06/10/2013 19:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MudCity · 06/10/2013 20:10

MissGarth I would feel the same. I once went to a church where the person leading the service said something similar about people who had chosen not to join. I didn't go again.

There is no right path. There is no one path.

I find it very irritating when people think they have the power to "save" another. It is their ego talking. They have to convince themselves that their way is the right way.

It is much more healthy to question where we are and what we do. And we should do that regularly. Not blindly follow what another person tells us.

They were always going to have a spin on you leaving. And they will probably communicate that to others in the church, lest any other people start to question things as well. It isn't healthy but that is the way they are. It is so much easier for them to think that they are right and you are wrong. A black and white world is much easier to cope with than the various shades of grey that is reality.

Take good care and do not worry. You will find your way. Not their way. Your way.

Look after yourselves.

ChippingInNeedsSleepAndCoffee · 06/10/2013 20:11

It isn't 'gossip'. He has said that you are leaving due to 'false accusations', you are well within your rights to point out that this is not accurate.

Also, this is not 'idle gossip' this man should not be able to hide this prohibition order. For the sake of vulnerable children it is important people know about it.

Lunatic - I'm not clear if this person who has sent the text today does know about the Prohibition Order or just thinks that there has been a 'false accusation' against the other person. I think it's important that everyone who could stop this man having any contact with young people knows about it. The adults should be protecting the children, not sweeping it under the carpet and making out that The Garths are being taken in by the devil (or however you'd put it).

MrsHoratioNelson · 06/10/2013 20:13

Lunatic makes a very good point. The word "grooming" you used is also entirely appropriate. Coming at this from a non-religious angle you must do what you know in your heart to be the right thing. However you find it best to reach that conclusion is up to you, but clearly you have reflected very long and hard on what is the right course of action and made what, to me at least is the right decision, not least for your own sanity.

BettyBotter · 06/10/2013 20:15

Would replying potentially reduce the risk to any children?

MudCity · 06/10/2013 20:18

I agree with LunaticFringe. Not sure there is any point in continuing a debate with them. It just prolongs the whole thing and potentially makes things more difficult for you.

You have reported your concerns to the authorities which is the right thing to do and all you need to do.

LunaticFringe · 06/10/2013 20:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RandomMess · 06/10/2013 20:24

See I interpret it as the texter believing the lies they have been told and not actually being aware of the child proctection now in place.

LunaticFringe · 06/10/2013 20:31

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

QOD · 06/10/2013 20:31

My bil and family and SIL and family to to a church where one of the chaps, who does the adolescent prison visits, is a convicted, prison sentence served, paedophile

But apparently it's ok for him to do these visits as they're always supervised.

Twats

Original poster
MissGarth · 06/10/2013 22:39

QOD...there are no words for that one.

The elder definitely knows the order is in place, just believes it should be ignored as the person can't possibly have really done anything wrong.

Re contacting them, I keep finding myself going back to the emigration idea that I have already left the country so can't actually come back to talk to them....will sleep on it though.

OP posts:
MissBattleaxe · 06/10/2013 22:44

The past is another country. They do things differently there.

Don't look back.