Hand holding please - About to throw my whole life overboard.

[MissGarth]

Tonight me and DH are leaving an organisation that is basically our whole life- all our friends are there, we spend all our free time there, we use our gifts in a voluntary capacity there and the long term plan was that the organisation would be our employer, in a field we have wanted to work in all our lives.

And now we are leaving.

Can't say more about the organisation until we have told them.

I feel so sick and so frightened.

We have no doubt we will be cut off from all our friends and never hear from anyone again. It is going to be very lonely. There are lots of people there we genuinely love.

I'm also frightened about what they will say about us when we leave. We know of other people who have left and they all seem to have left after extremely poor/ shockingly bad behaviour...which we now realise, of course, is crap.

Thank God for DH.

i am not quite sure what you have left/ escaped from, but you sound very strong op.

It sounds like you've done completely the right thing. A church youth group sounds a lot like a youth club to me.

You've been very brave, but don't feel you have to rush into any decisions about whether to meet up or not.

OP, you are obviously very apprehensive of them. Don't go to the meeting, they will mess with your head and you have been incredibly strong to make the break. It takes real guts.

Just remember- nothing upsets a control freak more than not having control.

Don't give it back to them.

OP, I've been following your thread and just happened on this today.

I just wanted to add my support, and reiterate what others have said. I think it would be very upsetting for you, and a retrograde step to go for a 'face to face' meeting with these people.
You've said your piece, in the letter, and they know your position. They may not agree with it, and they may feel you have the wrong idea. That is fine. That is their prerogative. You know what you know, and you know how it made you feel to be around these people. nothing they will say will change that, but they might say things that make you feel so wretched that you give in, just so they don't feel bad, or think badly of you.

MissGarth, what they think of you is not what matters. What matters is what you think of yourself, and you should be proud of standing up for your principles and taking the stand you did. They will move on without you, and their situation may or may not continue as it is. That is no longer your concern.

I know you believe in God. If it helps, I am sure that God is supporting you, and helping you through this. Doing the right thing is never easy (lots of examples in The Bible to support this!), and I wondered if it would help you and your DH to see this current problem as a bit of a 'test' , that you need to get through. The emotional blackmail these people are currently trying to put onto you is just another part of God's 'test' for you

Please don't ask me why He's choosing you to test...I regularly get told that God chose me to bring up my (wonderful but 'testing') autistic son. In my heart, I always answer 'I wish He'd blooming chosen someone else then!' Hold on in there, OP. It will get easier with time.

OP you have been amazing. Under no circumstances have any more contact of any sort with these people. No emails,letters, calls or meetings. Just go.

Good luck and go well.

Keep thinking of that emigration metaphor. You can't go to their meeting if you've moved abroad. You're a new person now, not the old person under their thrall.

The stuff about his wife being upset is emotional blackmail and guilt tripping. Block it out. Make it powerless.

"If he genuinely feels upset because we have left then I think he would have been upset however we left, whereas if he is upset he can't manipulate us then they would be more upset about it being a letter."

You are exactly right. This is NO different from an abusive ex saying "I'm thinking about suicide since you left me, we need to talk, blah blah." It's all an easily done act to put you in your place. I wouldn't think there was any specific reason to believe that the wife has ACTUALLY been crying her eyes out. He is trying to guilt trip you.

You've done the hard bit, don't put yourself in suspense waiting for more contact, just say no thanks.

MissGarth I have some idea of what you're talking about.

I nearly got 'recruited' into what was essentially a cult when in my early 20's but there were some cracks beginning to show in this particular organisation, which combined with my new-found cynicism for everything (at the time) stopped me from taking that step.

A few years on I heard that those of us who left were badmouthed and criticised openly. I also heard (from trustworthy people) tales of adultery and EA relating to one of the 'leaders' with some allegations also of financial fraud.

For years I felt a void. Then nothing. I'm now happy, and follow a different faith path that asks nothing of me, doesn't require me to "look up" to anyone or take any instruction from anyone, but to be responsible for myself, like an adult.

I hope in time, you'll find peace and reconciliation with yourself. Always trust your gut feelings, and always do what is right for you. Biblical quotes can be easily manipulated to make people feel guilty, or inadequate, because they can be taken totally out of context.

You have had some great advice here, MissGarth. And, everyone is saying the same thing.

You've got out, now stay out.

Every time you reply to them or meet with them keeps you in there a little bit longer. Prolongs the agony. Stops you and your DH from moving forwards. It doesn't help them. It doesn't help you. It does, however, give them the opportunity to mess with your head and make you doubt yourselves.

There is no kind way to end this relationship, only a clean way.

Don't look back.

Lots of people have problems with making 'endings'. It's why relationship breakdowns are hard, leaving even bad jobs etc. You are working your way through an ending so of course you are conflicted.

That's a very good reason to just leave it as it is with no further contact. Make the best ending you can.

This is a situation where there is from what I have gathered a person of questionable moral authority that is being allowed within an organisation to have contact with a group of minors while under a ban from such contact. This group cannot be something you want to belong to. The person involved is ignoring a legal order, and no matter the circumstances should not have taken that decision and cannot be someone you want to associate with. For breaking the order if nothing else.

I know you don't like to think of anyone being upset, but that is an easy excuse to manipulate people with. You and your DH have also been upset by this and you are only responsible for your own emotional well being.

Goodness, poor you OP. They have nothing to lose from a meeting and everything to gain. Presumably you feel you have all relevant information and have decided, not lightly, that this is the best way forward. If you meet with them or enter into correspondence you'll end up being bullied and feeling crap. You're quite right to compare it to an abusive relationship - if your friend had just escaped from one would you encourage her to sit down and "hear his side"? no of course you wouldn't!

OP, remember they have no right of reply. You have stated that you've left and that is that. It is not for them to try and convince you to stay, or tell you you're wrong, or make you feel guilty. You have been so brave so far. Don't have a meeting with them.

You have both been incredibly brave. The difficult bit is done. Do not see them again - you left for good reason and that hasn't changed. There is nothing they could say to change your mind so the meeting is pointless. I wish you and your DH every happiness in your new life together.

Absolutely. You don't owe them anything. You have told them you are leaving and returned your keys. End of. If you engage in conversation, there is a risk they will use whatever you say against you (just as your mother said). Or, try to make you feel guilty about things that are not your responsibility.

It won't be easy but the longer you stay in contact with them, the more painful it will be.The less said, the less there is to misinterpret or twist. The less said, the better.

You know what you need to do. Eventually, when they realise they can't manipulate you, they will go away. Don't give them any reason to think you might reconsider your decision. While they think there is a chance, they will just keep chipping away. You don't need that.

Stand firm. Know your own mind. Read these posts when you are feeling vulnerable. Be strong.

Oh OP can I just say that ou and your DH sound so lovely. Really caring.

It sounds to me as if you've done the right thing, not only for yourselves, but for the group.

This must be so painful for you though

But definitely don't go and see them. Because nothing they can say will change your mind . And nothing you say will convince them that they are in the wrong. So nothing they say or think or believe about you matters. It doesn't matter.

What matters is that you are happy that your decision is right.

Good luck to you and your DH in rebuilding a happy and full life again togetherx

Just wanted to add my support, OP. You are so very courageous and principled. You also sound lovely

I think I would send a text, email or recorded delivery letter (so you have a copy) advising this man that you do not wish to have any further communication with him and that if he does attempt any further communication you will view it as harassment and inform the police.

And then, if he does attempt to communicate again, contact the police on 101 and tell them everything.

You don't need to go for a meeting. There is nothing to discuss. Your decision to leave is a unilateral one that only you and your DH can make. It's simply not a situation to which any sort of negotiation or compromise applies.

I agree that what you need is a clean break, a bit of space to let the fog clear in your head. You don't need these self-serving people trying to justify themselves to you - they've already tried to manipulate you by suggesting that what you're doing is wrong or somehow cuts across social norms, hence this man saying that it "changes what he thought about you". Absolutely it has; it shows him that you won't blindly swallow whatever line he chooses to feed you.

If you don't engage, they can't try to manipulate you any further. Why do you owe them a right of reply? You must believe that you are correct about the allegations against them, otherwise you wouldn't have see fit to take your concerns to the authorities.

The feeling that occurs to me is that, with so much hate and control present, this was not a true church.

I am not really a Christian, but I believe in god and don't believe that this sounds like a place where he would be present.

Have just caught up with the thread after a dog walk and just wanted to say I really appreciate the support and feedback. I am definitely not going to contact them today now.

I'm quite surprised how uniform the feedback is, tbh I did expect a lot of people to be shocked at my behaviour in only sending a letter and to tell me I had behaved badly.

It is hard to have a proper perspective when you are so close to it. Thank you.

Stay strong MissG.
You made your decision for the right reasons and explained it to them. There is really nothing that would be better said face to face except his emotional manipulation

Just to put another perspective - he is experiencing massive discomfort (or cognitive dissonance) at the moment. What he has always lead you and everyone in the group to believe including himself (i.e. that he is a loving, caring, spritual leader who has no need to concern himself with the legalities of child protection and that you and dh are faithful and obedient followers) does not match up to the evidence in front of his eyes.

He has 3 options here -

1. Accept to himself that what you have said in your letter is true. Change his actions, come clean to his followers and step down or
2. Refuse to accept the evidence in front of his eyes and instead paint you as the ones in the wrong. Or
3. Make it all go away by persuading you to retract what you said before too late (through charm, threats, pleas and emotional blackmail -whichever works best on you.)

Of these options 3 is by far the most preferable to him (least discomfort) so all his energies will be expended in trying to make that happen for the next few days. Next will be option 2. But what will sadly never ever happen is what should happen, option 1.

Hang on in there.

MissGarth, You have done nothing wrong. The fact that the feedback you have received on here is so in agreement, tells you all you need to know.

You are clearly a lovely, caring, sensitive person. You are bound to ruminate on this and wonder if you could have / should have done things differently. They will make you doubt yourself because it is what controlling people do. They don't like it when others take hold of the reins and make decisions for themselves. It takes away their power!

These people are not going to like your decision. The way you communicated it really doesn't matter a jot. You did what you needed to do. The fact that you were fearful of their reaction and felt that the best way was to write a letter, speaks volumes. Having a normal, reasonable conversation with people like that just was not an option!

Don't waste another thought on it. Think about your crocheting instead...much better use of a thought!

MissGrath, sometimes we have to make decisions that are uncomfortable because they are the right decision. I had to make one just this week, which if I had seen another way, I would not have made, but it was the only right thing to do.

Regarding this:

"I do feel very sorry for his wife, though, I think she must know deep down what he is like but I really hate the thought I have caused her so much pain. She is a very lovely woman and it isn't her fault."

You have not caused her pain. If she loved her husband, she would accept what he has done and the restrictions that have come about as a result of that. She would then support him in refraining from contact with children even if he felt he was innocent, or reformed.

If he was an upstanding person, he would accept the penalty of his actions and do everything in his power to stay within the confines of that penalty.

They have caused you pain and sorrow. They have made you choose between the organisation and your own morals. They have stolen the organisation from you, by making you walk away because they wouldn't follow safeguarding requirements.

Shame on them.

Hi, sorry I was out this afternoon when you needed help.

You wrote this earlier

If he genuinely feels upset because we have left then I think he would have been upset however we left, whereas if he is upset he can't manipulate us then they would be more upset about it being a letter....is that right?.....

Absolutely right. Nail on head, you are getting there. He is upset because he has lost control, his wife may be upset for different reasons however, but that is NOT your fault. Your decision may encourage her to seek liberty too.

The glaring injustice here is that you should never have to ask to leave anything, only a prisoner or a slave would have to do that.

Any advisor on leaving abusive relationships will say just leave. Get your self out of there and go no contact.

There is a reason for this.

this was an abusive relationship. You know why he wants to see you and you know why the advice is always GO NO CONTACT.