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Ethical dilemmas

Do I tell?

253 replies

StarryCole · 29/05/2012 00:32

I have a moral dilemma. Please bear with me as I really need your strength to do the right thing. Last summer. We were at my PIL's house. Only family there and what I mean by this is my husband's parents and his siblings only. Summer BBQ. I felt it a safe environment. My son, aged 3.5, is very active, likes to run around the house and garden and playing with various members of family. I didn't think he was in any danger. I thought I knew my husband's family well, we had been together 8 years. I thought it was safe.

My husband's 15 year old brother, I will call him Alan, exposed himself to my son, It was an opportunist moment. My son alone in Alan's bedroom for a brief time.
We were all downstairs doing the family thing, it did cross my mind where my son was but I didn't think anything of it. Nor did my husband, whose brother it was. Imagine your son or daughter with your brother or sister, together playing alone in a room for the briefest of moments?.

Later on, my son told me Uncle Alan sat him on his bed. Uncle Alan pulled his trousers and underpants and exposed himself. My son told me this in enough detail and I was utterly shocked. It was enough for me to call the police.

Much emotional turmoil between myself, my husband and his parents. It was I that instigated the involvement with the police. Alan's parents were reluctant and very protective. They still are.

Co-incidentally, Alan was pulled up by the police on an seperate issue, at about the same time. The police was monitoring him because he was cruising websites of a NAPPY fetish nature and participating in 'chats' online. He came to the attention of the police as in one of the chats, Alan mentioned he had a toddler nephew, my son. My son was wearing nappies at the time. Till this day, I do not know the contents of the chats nor the actual sites he was on. I can only guess....

The police let Alan off with the privisio he does therapy. Alan being only 15 at the time, his mental state..the risks and being from a supportive home. The police do not view Alan as dangerous. Alan is back at school and living at home.

Fast forward 1 year to today, and my husband's other brother Roger (brother to Alan as well) and his wife announced they are expecting their first child.

My PIL's had sworn us to secrecy. Although we never promised to keep quiet if another member of the family had a child. It is both I and my husband's moral thinking, Roger and his wife ought to be told, to empower them to protect their child.

My PILs, particularly, my FIL has threatened me that if I said anything, 'a big thing would come between us' i.e., I would be ousted in their eyes. They don't deem Alan as dangerous and they don't want any 'trouble' least all by me, least of all as Alan is 'sitting his exams at the moment'. They are being very threatening and we had a heated and serious disagreement. They are extremely protective of Alan, being young impressionable and probably prone to depression.
Any mention of my son and I get 'he'll not remember in a few years', 'nothing worse happened, he's hardly been affected'.

I believe Roger and his wife ought to know for the right reasons. As a parent first and foremost and for the safety of their child. Roger and his wife are good people, very responsible. I'm sure they would understand and be mature about it, like we have been. Alan is a 'good boy' in every other respect and is taking therapy.

Both myself and my husband are being pressured and threatened by my ILs. I know my PILs will never forgive me in particular - even if I said and did nothing 'being the woman/wife'.

Please, let me know your views. What would you do? And imagine this in your own family. Your son/daughter and brother or sister.

Thank you.

OP posts:
sososohard · 30/05/2012 19:07

sorry, there wasnt enough irony in my post clearly, I know this as the parent of a victim.

StarryCole · 30/05/2012 19:11

Sososohard. Thank you for your response. Do you have a non-legal opinion? I'm open to all views in this free talking forum. We deliberately declined to press charges btw.

This is an ethical dilemma IMO. We're not here to vilify Alan but to do what's best.

OP posts:
sososohard · 30/05/2012 19:16

Well non legally, if I EVER find out that anyone knew about him and covered for him, then there will be murder.

And if anything ever happens to another child, that he has access to through the children he currently resides with, I will hold their mother equally responsible for the abuse.

As far as I am concerned she is failing her duty of care to her own children, as well as those children visiting her her home.

After all how many of us would allow our children to visit a house where there was a man accused of these sorts of crimes living.

sososohard · 30/05/2012 19:19

not literal physical murder btw - I mean of the shouting, cutting people out of my life variety.

Ratbagcatbag · 30/05/2012 19:23

Ok I haven't read all the responses but I could not not post on this.

I will give you another perspective on this.

My uncle sexually abused his sister (my aunt) when he was 14, lots of heavy petting and touching, she told her parents and they said it was normal and not to say a word as people would think she was dirty.

My mum didn't know any of this and let her brother babysit me, he sexually abused me from the age of 3 to just before my 13th birthday, my mum stopped him coming around and her parents guilt tripped my mum into making her think that I would be brining shame on the family if he went to prison. It was never mentioned again.

I tried to take my own life in my teens and self harmed, it's taken me a very long time to be comfortable being me, I went to the police eight years ago now and he was prosecuted and still resides on the sex offenders register for another couple of years as well as having a stay courtesy of her maj.

All this because my aunt never mentioned he'd touched her, my mum would have never left me alone with hi if she'd known. I had to go to the police because I couldn't bear the thought of the police turning up one day and he'd done it to someone else.

Also the older they get the clever they are, my uncle had an amazing reference of a very high standing member of the community saying I was a liar, even though uncle had pleaded guilty and the guy didn't know me.

Heyyyho · 30/05/2012 19:33

Ratbag Sad Such a sad story.

Your poor, poor aunt she did tell her Mother and she was rejected.
All because the parents wanted to protect the abuser.

I don't often say this but was groomed and abused, -luckily not very seriously- by a family member when I was 10. It was very frightening. I didn't tell as such but the warning signs were so obvious - didn't want to be around him, said I hated him etc but no one asked me further or questioned my feelings toward him.

15 yes later I told my Mother but she just brushed it off and said well you should go to the police then Hmm
She still has a picture of him in her living room. I don't really see her anymore and have lost all respect.
I am going off tangent here sorry. But families are very likely to protect these Men for fear of shame.

Ratbagcatbag · 30/05/2012 19:43

I think it's much more commen than people think, I am now ok, but it has taken me years and lots of excellent friends and a superb DH, it split my mums family. Apparently I was a slag that blatantly gave him the come on, I was three, he was 19.

I struggle even now that my aunt didn't have a quiet word with my mum, but you can't change the past so have accepted what it is. But I could not ever live with the guilt if i had done nothing ad he did it again.

You must tell BIL, he'll give me their details and I will do it for you, but please do not ever not say anything, as you PILs are covering this up, there will be times ALan will be allowed to be alone with new baby when you don't know as they will want to test to see if he's safe.

ToryLovell · 30/05/2012 19:56

Starrycole's DH - please read and digest the very sad posts by ratbag and others who have been in this situation.

Children need to be protected, and this will not happen by hiding it.

TidyDancer · 30/05/2012 20:23

Oh gosh, what a horrible situation to be in, for many reasons.

You of course do need to tell, you and your DH have absolutely no right to withhold this.

Your PIL are blinded by the fact that Alan is their son, they can't see this clearly. They are hoping he won't do it again, which is why they are asking to wait to spill the secret until this new baby is out of nappies. They want the chance to say "look, the 'threat' has passed, there's no need to tell anyone now". It's not worth the risk, and they do not have the right to put your BIL and SIL in the position where their child is at risk simply because they haven't been given the right information.

I have a BIL and SIL with small children, and if DP's other brother had proved himself a risk to my DCs, I wouldn't hesistate to inform the other siblings so they could protect their own DCs. I wouldn't wait for or request approval from PILs, I would even go against DP if he asked me not to say anything.

OP, I am so sorry you are in this situation, it is really unfair you are having to deal with this.

AKE2012 · 30/05/2012 20:52

It doesnt need to be made into a big scene. All you husband has to do is have a quiet word with them and say just keep an eye on your children. I'd feel guilty if i knew and didnt say something sooner.
I do hope u dont have to carry this burden for much longer.

AuntySib · 30/05/2012 21:05

What a horrible situation! i agree with everyone else has siad, except that i think you should tell SIL, not Roger. It seems to me that your DH is almost colluding with PIL, and Roger may do the same. Your SIL needs to know, and I don't think you can rely on Roger to tell her.
its not up to anyone else to decide what you do - this family sounds weird, and as another poster pointed out, maybe something happened to Alan to make him the way he is. Your DH and Roger have both been brought up by the same PIL who are covering for Alan, and that is likely to affect how they see things. You know it is not safe for a baby to be anywhere near Alan, and your SIL has the right to know what happened so that she can protect her baby.
By the way, i think the police should have been involved, and you have toed the family line for long enough. it's clear from your post that you know what the right thing to do is, and I'm sure you'd never forgive yourself if this new baby is abused by Alan when you could have prevented it.
Your own conscience has to be your guide.
Good luck, we're all thinking of you in this awful situation.
xx

pumpkinsweetie · 30/05/2012 21:31

What a sad story ratbagSad, thinking of u.
Hope you sort this out op, even if it means just telling sil as it is important her child and future children are protected

Ratbagcatbag · 30/05/2012 21:39

Thanks Pumpkin.

It's something for me that is dealt with now, I don't generally shout about it but I'm happy to discuss it, honesty I think there still is shame associated with it, but more so that people see you as a victim (which I know is what you are, but it doesn't define me IYSWIM) which isn't the reason I share it. I'm prob not making much sense. :) but that's generally me.

I hope the OP comes back, I don't think I've seen her on here tonight.

BustersOfDoom · 30/05/2012 21:51

I think you should tell also. I have no experience of sexual abuse but it does worry me that your PIL think that a sexual attraction/fetish that seems to be pretty well developed at the age of 15 can be overcome through counselling.

I was probably about 7/8 when I realised I liked boys. My gay friend tells me that he knew he like the same sex aged about 7/8. What turns you on turns you on. I have never stopped liking boys/men and neither has my gay friend. It was imprinted on us from a young age.

No amount of counselling would convince me I like girls and vice versa if we had to be corrected in some way. If your nephew was/is turned on by children in nappies then it would take a massive amount of treatment to turn that round. I find it hard to believe that he could go from 'nappy' chat rooms and exposing himself to doing nothing just through counselling.

I just don't see how someone can go from being turned on by something to suddenly not just through talking to a therapist. I think Alan is a long way from being either cured or safe around young children.

hifi · 30/05/2012 22:07

My sister had a similar situation with a child my mother was looking after. He was10 and nephew 5.

Dsis called me and said no one would tackle it as parents of child were pillars of the community.

I called my mum and said if she wouldn't tackle it we would. Mum pulled child to one side and outlined what had happened and concequences. He understood and it never happened again with Dn.

Will never know if It happened with another child.

It really bothers me that no one was prepared to tackle it head on,with the parents.

hifi · 30/05/2012 22:08

So much protection is given to the perpertrator.

2to3 · 30/05/2012 22:13

This is about doing what's in the best interest of the child - and that's doing anything you possibly can to protect them. Tell, and explain the sensitivity involved. Your in laws don't need to know you've told. If they find out, so be it - your conscience is still clear. They're being irresponsible by swearing you to secrecy about something so serious.

StarryCole · 30/05/2012 22:58

Ratbagcatbag, heyyho, hifi and others here, thank you so much for sharing your stories. Its immensely supportive.

BustersofDoom- that's an interesting perspective you've given. Thank you. I think IMO (non expert) that therapy can explore these issues and help towards managing one's tendencies that could be harmful to others. But I agree it's not an absolute 'cure', if it were, there would be a chemical formula to it with proven results. Maybe there is gene that predetermines our sexual orientation or maybe its environmental influences? The nappy fetish or interest in babies or toddlers might not even be sexual, it could be a mental illness of some other kind.

I think PIL and DH don't want to admit it to themselves that such a mental state is here for the long term and possibly to stay. So they try to normalise this in their heads and deem Alan to be as low a risk as possible to others.

OP posts:
StarryCole · 30/05/2012 23:31

Just to add, DH and I are going to continue discussions with ILs with the aim of having agreed plan and buyin from the 4 of us. I have very low expectations that they will understand mumsnetter's or my views. Their lenses are very coloured. I privately will out this secret to BIL/SIL ata timeframe that I think appropriate and will just have to deal with being the scapegoat and possibly my DH leaving me over this. They will see it as an act of 'betrayal'. But so be it, right?

OP posts:
NannyPlumIsMyMum · 30/05/2012 23:32

Paedophilia means quite literally love of children.
Your BIL by viewing fetish material of babies is a paedophile.
Pedophiles cannot be cured . It is not an illness .
They are extremely dangerous as they see no wrong in what they do.
If I were you ? I would be making a call to Social Services .

NannyPlumIsMyMum · 30/05/2012 23:37

starry working in psychiatry I can tell you that there is no illness that makes people look at fetish pictures of babies in nappies.

waltermittymissus · 30/05/2012 23:44

I wouldn't worry about your dh leaving you. I wouldn't want to be married to him considering what he knows and what he refuses to do.

Any adult who knows what he did and what is possibly IS and who doesn't take steps to warn other parents? Well, it's not the type I'd want to be or want to be with!

cheesesarnie · 30/05/2012 23:47

Nannyplum(love your name)- voice of reason.

StarryCole · 30/05/2012 23:50

And to my DH, that is my bottom line if our SIL or BIL isn't notified. And I will not wait till baby is born. My DH , you accuse me of making threats. I won't slander you or your ILs or try to pressure you by giving every reason under the sun TO disclose.

You and PILS are giving me every reason under the sun NOT to disclose.

So I will continue having an open dialogue with you and PILs if it keeps the wheel moving but I repeat DH my bottom line is not a threat but a damn promise!!

Now I need a glass of Wine ......

OP posts:
cheesesarnie · 30/05/2012 23:58

here Wine Grin

stay strong and stick to your gut feeling on this.