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Ethical dilemmas

Do I tell?

253 replies

StarryCole · 29/05/2012 00:32

I have a moral dilemma. Please bear with me as I really need your strength to do the right thing. Last summer. We were at my PIL's house. Only family there and what I mean by this is my husband's parents and his siblings only. Summer BBQ. I felt it a safe environment. My son, aged 3.5, is very active, likes to run around the house and garden and playing with various members of family. I didn't think he was in any danger. I thought I knew my husband's family well, we had been together 8 years. I thought it was safe.

My husband's 15 year old brother, I will call him Alan, exposed himself to my son, It was an opportunist moment. My son alone in Alan's bedroom for a brief time.
We were all downstairs doing the family thing, it did cross my mind where my son was but I didn't think anything of it. Nor did my husband, whose brother it was. Imagine your son or daughter with your brother or sister, together playing alone in a room for the briefest of moments?.

Later on, my son told me Uncle Alan sat him on his bed. Uncle Alan pulled his trousers and underpants and exposed himself. My son told me this in enough detail and I was utterly shocked. It was enough for me to call the police.

Much emotional turmoil between myself, my husband and his parents. It was I that instigated the involvement with the police. Alan's parents were reluctant and very protective. They still are.

Co-incidentally, Alan was pulled up by the police on an seperate issue, at about the same time. The police was monitoring him because he was cruising websites of a NAPPY fetish nature and participating in 'chats' online. He came to the attention of the police as in one of the chats, Alan mentioned he had a toddler nephew, my son. My son was wearing nappies at the time. Till this day, I do not know the contents of the chats nor the actual sites he was on. I can only guess....

The police let Alan off with the privisio he does therapy. Alan being only 15 at the time, his mental state..the risks and being from a supportive home. The police do not view Alan as dangerous. Alan is back at school and living at home.

Fast forward 1 year to today, and my husband's other brother Roger (brother to Alan as well) and his wife announced they are expecting their first child.

My PIL's had sworn us to secrecy. Although we never promised to keep quiet if another member of the family had a child. It is both I and my husband's moral thinking, Roger and his wife ought to be told, to empower them to protect their child.

My PILs, particularly, my FIL has threatened me that if I said anything, 'a big thing would come between us' i.e., I would be ousted in their eyes. They don't deem Alan as dangerous and they don't want any 'trouble' least all by me, least of all as Alan is 'sitting his exams at the moment'. They are being very threatening and we had a heated and serious disagreement. They are extremely protective of Alan, being young impressionable and probably prone to depression.
Any mention of my son and I get 'he'll not remember in a few years', 'nothing worse happened, he's hardly been affected'.

I believe Roger and his wife ought to know for the right reasons. As a parent first and foremost and for the safety of their child. Roger and his wife are good people, very responsible. I'm sure they would understand and be mature about it, like we have been. Alan is a 'good boy' in every other respect and is taking therapy.

Both myself and my husband are being pressured and threatened by my ILs. I know my PILs will never forgive me in particular - even if I said and did nothing 'being the woman/wife'.

Please, let me know your views. What would you do? And imagine this in your own family. Your son/daughter and brother or sister.

Thank you.

OP posts:
MaryPoppinsBag · 30/05/2012 13:52

Just tell your SIL!
You may find when her baby arrives you will not be able to help but tell her.
I couldn't not say anything.

This has nothing to do with the adults and everything to do with Safeguarding a child!

ksrwr · 30/05/2012 13:53

In my opinion, children that need protecting at all costs. you must tell.

MaryPoppinsBag · 30/05/2012 14:01

All you need to do is ask yourself how you would feel if your BIL and SIL knew about his 'behaviour' before he exposed himself to you child, and hadn't warned you.

TheSurgeonsMate · 30/05/2012 14:03

In answer to your question OP, if I were Roger I'd want to know once the baby is born. Treat it as a practical issue that will have an impact when the baby is here, not something he needs to dwell on while he's preparing for fatherhood.

EldritchCleavage · 30/05/2012 14:17

Your PILS and DH are desperately rationalising away any risk because they do not want to face this. I do think it is absolutely the wrong thing to do. Secrets empower abusers (or potential abusers) and disempower their targets.

Be clear that you are being asked to put Roger's child(ren) at risk to maintain the status quo within the family. That just isn't a good enough reason, in my opinion.

None of you can know what degree of risk Alan poses, but common sense indicates there must be some risk. It wasn't a silly one-off, because he has already frequented websites about this kind of interest.

So I agree Roger and wife should be told now. I know the baby isn't here yet, but this way they can absorb the news and work out what they want to do in advance. Otherwise-what? Tell them the minute it is born and mar that period of their lives forever?

And be very wary of PIL. The denial, the threats, the minimising of the effect on your son-all very very bad news. It doesn't sound as though they can be relied on to protect any children from Alan's 'interest' and in time you may need to consider telling SS about that. Please do not be pressured into contact with Alan that even theoretically puts your dc at risk.

And for your DH, I don't say any of this to be 'socially acceptable'. I'm a survivor of sustained abuse suffered when only a few months older than your son AND I REMEMBER. The abuser was unmasked abusing an older boy, but despite his having had access to us, my (otherwise lovely) parents just buried the whole thing. They seemed unable to face the prospect of what might have happened so I was never asked about him or told what had happened re his disappearance from our lives and so suffered in silence for decades. That has proved as hard if not harder to get over than the abuse. I do have a good relationship with my parents but the rage and pain over the years has sometimes been terrible.

Please make the active protection of your son and other small children in the family your top priority.

Chubfuddler · 30/05/2012 14:19

If you hadn't found out about this for yourself, you wouldn't have been told.

If you hadn't involved the police, no one else would have done.

Do your pils not accord their eldest son the courtesy of being an adult and making informed decisions about his soon to be born child?

I would imagine the whole thing may be taken out of their hands when whoever is supervising/treating Alan finds out a baby is soon to arrive in the extended family.

Your husband sounds pretty spineless by the way.

DontWorryBaby · 30/05/2012 14:32

I can't believe your husband is now on side with your PsIL. Very difficult now as really any action should be coming from him and not left to you.

I still think they need to know. What happens if Alan is asked to hold the baby, to change the baby, to watch the baby for 5mins while Roger, for example, makes a cup of tea? It all makes me very uncomfortable. I don't think Alan deserves the benefit of the doubt here considering what is being put at risk. I'd maybe leave it a week or so then bring it up with your DH again.

AKE2012 · 30/05/2012 14:33

Id tell without a second thought. If your husband agrees it would be best if he tells them.
Ok he is a teenage boy getting therapy but caution needs to be taken. It may have just been a stupid thing and he may not be any harm but you cant risk it.

If it was my parents they would have phoned the police themselves.

You and your family are better off without them if they are going to treat you in a bad way for this

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 30/05/2012 14:39

I'm probably being thick here, but why do Alan and the PILs need to know if you tell Roger and his wife.

Can't you just tell them (Roger et al) and they can discreetly ensure constant supervision of their DC when they may come into contact with Alan. If done discreetly why would Alan/PILs ever know?

Important question though - is Alan on someone's radar. Presumably he could be a potential danger to non related children?

feedthegoat · 30/05/2012 15:01

I've pm'd you StarryCole with more indepth reply. Hadn't read about your dh seeing his parents then.

But before bil's arrest I didn't suspect anything,no. He was my shining example of a male primary teacher and I would have trusted him implicitly.

But certain things ring alarm bells in hind sight (a few late teen girlfriends when in his 30's). Didn't make me suspect him in the least at the time, I just thought he was immature emotionally.

Your IL's sound like mine. Please ask your dh to consider what I said in my pm that dh and i used as our reference when things were horrific. You need to be able to look your child (and your neice or nephew) in the eye as adults and be able to say hand on heart that you did your absolute best to keep them safe. Should his trust in Alan prove (god forbid) misplaced, could he do that? You have to live with the decisions you make. Please make sure he fully understands this.

5 years ago I would have said my bil was not capable of what he is in prision for.

StarryCole · 30/05/2012 16:25

In response to a few of you, why do PIL's have to know? Unfortunately, I do not know my BIL/SIL well enough if I/DH went and spoke to them directly. I think they would want to raise this with their PIL's anyway - it's too big a deal not to.

My DH is the eldest of a few other sisters and brothers. This big ugly elephant could potentially arise several times over in the future! Only DH and Roger has kids for now.

PILs are scared of future repurcussions. They do not give enough credit to Roger or to me in the way I and my family have delt with Alan. We act normal around him and we understand the pains AND I have let my DS/DD still play with Alan (in supervision!). I'm not looking for bloody credit anyway.

OP posts:
StarryCole · 30/05/2012 16:38

Writing this to DH I'm hoping he will read this:

Dear DH

I hope I have given a fair and truthful account. I hope you have read all these responses as they are unanimous.

It is morally the right thing to do to disclose to your SIL/BIL sooner rather than later given the FACTS of our case and Alan's - before the baby is born (why marr SIL/BIL special time after the baby is born?).

Alan has support, plus support from us and a very loving family. He will be OK.
We cannot be sure our future DN/kids will be OK if we don't step in and ACT NOW,

I am willing to put my neck on the line - so I can truthfully say to my DS and future DN I have done all that I can to protect them. A RISK IS STILL A RISK no matter how small.

What RIGHT do we have not to disclose? We have no reason insurmountable to the the protection of children who cannot protect themselves.

I'm sorry your PILs cannot see this. I am with you because you are a fair man, a good man and you know what the right thing is to do here.

God give us the strength.

StarryCole

OP posts:
feedthegoat · 30/05/2012 17:15

I hope he sees it's the right thing to do StarryCole. Your pil have the right to feel protective of their son but you need to ensure the protection of yours. You do need to be united. I don't think dh and I would have come through this together if we hadn't been and even then it's been tough.

Hope everything goes well and you can discuss everything properly. My in laws just wanted to act like it wasn't happening and I still think we were cast out of the family as we were the only ones wanting to try and deal with it. Not speaking to us was easier. If you can get everyone to be honest I think you'll stand a much better chance than us. It makes me so sad to think of another family struggling with this because I know what it does. But on the otherhand, reading the stories of other here makes me sure we did the right thing for our child.

1950sHousewife · 30/05/2012 17:16

Can I second StarryColes letter.

It's not hysterical, or part of a mob mentality. It's accepting that Alan has a problem, you want to help him with this problem, but also protect those that it might affect.
And as you said, it's better to tell now, so the BIL has time to digest this info before the baby is born.
Remember also, OP, you are independant of your DH and your PILs. If it meant my DH or PILs never forgiving me for telling, so be it. I would rather that scenario than my future DN never forgiving me. So what if you barely know them, I think it would come best from you DH, but if worst came to worst. And remember, you 'forgave' Alan, enough that he plays with your DS. Surely your DHs brother can see it the same way?

SweetGrapes · 30/05/2012 17:20

You know, just now they are saying he's young and depressed and what not.
A few years down the line it'll be - look how well he's doing. Can't jeopardize(sp?) his college/new career etc etc. They are never going to tell any future parents about anything. It'll never be the right time - and if some little child gets abused in the meanwhile, then so be it.
It's all about Alan and rationalisation.

Mr StarryCole - Step up and grow a pair.

OhDoAdmitMrsDeVere · 30/05/2012 17:35

To the OPs DH.
Surely it is better to prevent Alan from commiting another offence?
For Alan as well as his victim?

Because if Alan has a tendency to depression re-offending would be likely to push him over the edge.

It is not the PIL's decision to make. We all have a responsibilty to protect children.
Alan is still a child and he needs to be protected too. Not from the consequences of his actions but from the consquences of repeating his actions.

I dont think I need to go into detail about how important it is to protect the potential victims of his sexual preferences.
That must be obvious.

kitcatcandy · 30/05/2012 18:01

I just wanted to add that I would tell, and I would also be concerned that due to your PIL ways of dealing with this, that there am be other offences you are not aware of. For me this would be more reason to tell.

They need to know, how awful would it be if something happened and the new baby's parents found out you all knew Alan was a risk and no one told them?

Keeping secrets just gives Alan more power, and the power should be in the parents hands.

5madthings · 30/05/2012 18:10

yes you must tell, you can say to your bil and his wife that it may be best for them not to mention that htey know but in all likelyhood they will want to talk to them about it and may well be annoyed that they havent been told already tbh.

if i found out that a family member had kept something like this a secret and my children were put at risk i would be furious, sorry but i would be.

you are colluding with your inlaws and 'alan' by not disclosing this to them and i cant see roger and his wife taking it well if they find out at a later date.

tell them now before their baby is born so they have time to process this and think about it camly etc.

HerRoyalNotness · 30/05/2012 18:14

I am more a lurker, but couldn't not comment. You must tell your BIL/SIL the situation. There is no way I would keep this quiet. If you did and something happened to their child you would carry some guilt. I would also NEVER let your DC be around your PILs alone, EVER, they obviously do not grasp the seriousness of what their son has done and are being very cavalier with the welfare of their grandchildren.

monkeymoma · 30/05/2012 18:20

I would absolutely tell, but on top of that I would avoid the PILs, most abusers were abused, many by someone close to the family, so someone close to the family may have "made" Alan how he is, and the PILs "under the carpet" would make me not trust them!

I wouldn't care what those people thought TBH! please tell, good luck x

WineOhWhy · 30/05/2012 18:34

I would tell before baby is born, but would wait until after Alan's exams.

monkeymoma · 30/05/2012 18:50

the ILs did not protect their OWN child, from himself, his condition, his actions, and whatever trauma may have triggered it

I wouldn't trust them one jot! Alan is ill, his parents are facilitating his illness, what kind of parents FACILITATE any illness their child has?

I wouldn't care if they cut me off

sososohard · 30/05/2012 18:57

From a legal point of view, they can (and apparently should) keep this secret.

Even if he was charged and waiting trial, you would be expected to keep it quiet.

Did you all know that you can be charged of serious offences against a child, live in a house with children, whose friends visit, and no-one has the right to know.

Unless a perpetrator is found guilty in a court of law, their rights are paramount.

pumpkinsweetie · 30/05/2012 19:00

soso-maybe so but this 15yo is not right in the head and clearly a danger-his rights shouldn't be paramount at all.
A 15 yo knows right from wrong, what he is doing is not right or normal.
Tell the bil & sil op

MarySA · 30/05/2012 19:06

Of course you must tell. It is just simply not an option to keep quiet. These people must be given the opportunity to protect their child.

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