Toilet/shower solutions

[Bromatic]

Am considering moving my parents in and using our downstairs as a bedroom and shared living space. Rooms are generous Victorian ones and we could have another sitting room upstairs.

We don’t have anywhere to put a toilet though as in a terrace so no room at the sides. Between windows and fireplaces and all there is no space. There is no where for an extension to go at front or rear (and no money to pay) without it blocking windows. I have seen pods which are self contained toilets and showers. Has anyone tried one or has anyone got any recommendations?

My parents are in a retirement home which has been great for the last decade but they can’t afford similar by me - a more expensive area. By are about three hours away so travel is hard to fit in. I can’t move - still got kids in schools and we are approaching the toughest stage. Cognitive decline in both but one more rapid, mobility issues and frailty. Both still cheerful enough and here there is company and help.

If anyone has suggestions or comments I am very open to them.

Are thry happy in the current retirement home? It will be a big upheaqval for therm to be moved suddenly. It might be kinder to leave them where they are.
Appreciate you want them closer but it will be a lot more work than you realise and a major disruption to your household.

Hi, OP. Could you cobble some kind of a floor plan together with measurements, for the ground floor? Is the downstairs fireplace(s) still in use? Also, if you don't get much traction on this board, do please try the Property/DIY board (include a plan) - there are some very experienced posters on there in terms of refurb/improvement ideas.

Are you really ready to become a carer? If you can't afford the time to travel to them, how will you afford the time to care for them? Will life really be easier for them and you if they move in, or will it feel better because you see them more but actually be infinitely harder practically? I think for their dignity you would have to put a washing and toilet space in downstairs. If they are living with you, not just staying for a few nights, they will need a proper bathroom, not just an area of the room.

Why not consider a stair lift or even a proper (through floor) lift? You seem to have an extra room upstairs and they would be far more comfortable away from cooking smells and noise

What kind of care do they need? Do they both have an up to date assessment? The frailty and mobility is a concern, as falls are lethal. Cognitive decline can be managed up to a point. Do you work? If you do, think very carefully before doing this, especially if funds are already tight.

I looked after my parent full time live in, it was hard, but watching them decline first hand is traumatic. We were fortunate in that there were sufficient funds to throw at any of the many problems encountered along the way. Don't under estimate how much time and money is needed to properly care for aging, unwell people and ensure their dignity.

Also, you will stop being their daughter and become their carer, it's a painful mental shift. Having said all that, I'd do it all over again in a heartbeat to have them still here.

Age UK have some good Web resources to help with care options decision making.

I would leave them be. Surely they wouldn’t put you through all this?! Everyone I know that has done similar has ended up on antidepressants.

You could have an internal bathroom installed with no windows, may have to take up floor to get pipework out to back of the house. Lots of ground floor Victorian flat conversions have this. Get a good size building firm around to chew ideas.
Do you mean your parents live in a home they bought for their retirement rather than a care home setting? so they aren't managing well now. You could use a chair commode with waterproof and aroma absorbent liners for a toilet as a stop gap, you could put a screen around it. Have hand sanitiser beside it. Would a stairlift work to get up to the bathroom? you can rent them instead of buying. Age UK also have a deal with a supplier to supply and fit stairlifts.

That is a great idea. I will do that x

I should have said that won’t work as all floors are split height with floors up and down into bathrooms and rooms - there are hardly any runs without a few steps…

They are open to moving. Not ready yet but I wanted to be conceptually ready. At the moment they are ok but it’s knife edge.

The whole can I care/should I / do I want to is stuff I need to hear. I do work but have time in the evenings and weekends and good holidays. I have a retired husband and they would then have funds released to pay for care. I could pay for some but with kids at uni too I am not rolling in it!

I have been thinking I needed a temporary bathroom as it wouldn’t remain afterwards but actually of course I could put one in then remove it - there is room within the ‘bedroom’.

They are both pretty deaf so proximity to the kitchen wouldn’t be a problem!

Please think carefully about this OP. How your parents are today is the best they are going to be. They are going to deteriorate significantly.

They both have cognitive decline and one is already frail. There will come a point when they need a huge amount of input. They will become unable to prepare a meal, or even make a cup of tea. They will become unsteady on their feet and have falls, and possibly become completely immobile and need hoisting. They may unable to eat or drink without help, and are likely to become doubly incontinent.

You say you 'have time' but caring for both parents is likely to take over your entire life, possibly for years. My mother lived with dementia for ten years after diagnosis (most of that in a care home). By all means move them near to you, but make it to a care home when the time comes.

I'm another who just wants to second the point that your parents are definitely going to get more frail and require more help, sooner or later. That help is either going to come from you and/or your DH or from paid carers. So you need to recognise that you're proposing to turn your house into what will become essentially their care home (and not perhaps as you are imagining a "granny flat").

You are still in work and have DC in schools. Have you considered that adding the care of elderly parents to this workload might not be sustainable at some point? What will you do when it becomes unsafe to leave them on their own in the house? What if they require help during the night? Is the "temporary" bathroom you're envisioning going to be large enough to accommodate a parent and someone helping them bathe or get cleaned up after toileting?

Before you spend £ remodelling your home to meet their immediate needs, I'd suggest that you check out threads on this forum and in the cockroach cafe about how quickly that decline in frailty and cognition can happen and what it means for children caring for their parents at this point in their life. If they are open to moving closer to you, you might want to look around at care homes nearer to you when the time comes for them to move. But if you do move them into your home (which undoubtedly will have advantages emotionally for all of you) please go into it with your eyes wide open as to the toll it can take on the rest of your family and you. Good luck on this next leg of being a daughter.

When you say that they are currently in a retirement home, can you elaborate ?
If they own one of these MacCarthy & Stone type properties, you need to bear in mind that it will probably be a struggle for them to sell it....

That’s for the helpful perspectives and kind words. I have seen in other family members how those last years can look and how they can go on far past what you might expect. I agree - that would probably be care home territory for me not least because my unwell DH would be at home in the day while I am ‘safe’ at work.

I suppose I don’t expect my parents to remorselessly continue. My dad was resuscitated last year and remains at risk for strokes while mum has so many health issues and at least two organs that are close to failing but that have held steady for a while. She continues to lose weight and sleep more and I think these issues will continue. I feel like their bodies will go before the cognition issues take over or that if they do their bodies won’t take the strain - it’s like some awful gamble because at that point where cognition is gone I would want them in a home.

I feel being here could be the bit in between or the bit up to the end if I am right about their bodies giving up first. And here I could keep an eye on hydration and warmth and food and comfort. They have only just accepted a cleaner - they are in many ways resilient and determined but that doesn’t help when they keep falling over and have endless appointments and things.

I had a read through the boards - it’s humbling what people share and go through. Dad was in hospital for a week recently and I couldn’t really believe the state of some of the old people who made him look young. Extraordinary that they continue but we have seen it on the in-laws side too with relatives living demented into their late 90s full of physical energy but in a dreadful state. So hard. Dad has been forgetful for years but mum who is more physically frail has suddenly become so much more confused. I suspect it’s related to her many medical issues (which she does get great care for) but which bring their own toll.

Reading the threads about the way care homes treat every infection made me more in favour of staying out of a home. I don’t believe in life at any cost. Really I hope they have a great year and go with a bang. Between dads drinking and mum failing to eat I suppose I am describing leaving them put where they are. It will end with a bang. But that cruel too. It’s a tough decision.

thanks again.

Yeah it is a M and S - it will sell at a price but not a price that will let them
move up here…

To be fair it has been great for them and they have been happy there for a decade. The location really worked for them. But not so much now. They aren’t wealthy - if the pit was bigger there would be more choice

I can understand your thinking, if they are already physically frail.
But you would be surprised at how long people can continue like that.

And I understand why you don't want them 'kept alive at any cost' in a care home, I feel the same. But my experience of care homes wasn't like that. Once my mother got to the very frail, immobile stage it was agreed by all parties (care home, GP, paramedics and myself) that she would have no treatment and no hospital visits. All they did was keep her comfortable, but she still hung on a long time.

Bear in mind that any move will accelerate and magnify any problems. They may be ticking along in their familiar environment, but move them somewhere new and things will slide. I would wait a while longer to see how things pan out.

It's such a hard decision to make.

If finances allowed, and the current situation could be solved either by sale or sub letting or whatever, I'd investigate finding a ground floor apartment/flat near you with carers coming in and you on standby.

Having done the parent living with me scenario, I can say with hand on heart that it starts off fine, but ends up a dreadful mess for all, despite the best will in the world. So if you can avoid it, do so and seek alternatives.

You and your DH will end up being ill in one form or another while the parents sail on (well that was MY experience!). I did it in good faith because I loved mum, but if I knew then what I know now I wouldn't even consider it. I bear the scars, but mum was well cared for. I wasn't!

I think waiting and not provoking further deterioration has a very sound logic.

I do agree that a separate flat near me would be perfect but it’s not an easily affordable option. If their place sold would buy here then that would be perfect.

I am going to have a read through responses again and do a bit of thinking. Thanks for sharing your experiences and knowledge so generously.

Honestly OP, think very hard before you have them. In a care home all their needs are met. Can you deal with them being safe when they have declined cognitively (fires, hobs etc)? It is exhausting.
Consider also if they become incontinent. However “clean” there will be a smell. Do you want that?
Also “old person smell” is a real thing.

You would need to think how you would cover

Your own holidays or illness

2 people is different to managing & looking after 1 person

Their wishes versus your boundaries

Your health physical, mental, wealth

I have a family member in an M and S Apartment. She has been there 10 years now it is in her mid 90s. It was one of the best decisions she ever made. She’s surrounded by friends. There are activities staff on call, carers can come in, When one partner dies, the community has rallied round for the remaining person.

As a family, we’ve been hugely impressed by the set up because we know she’s not on her own - In fact, she is often unavailable for us because she’s too busy doing other things😆.

If where they live is similar, I would be very reluctant to move them. I would put in place Support for them there.

As for living with you I was in a similar situation but both my parents were in hospital at the same time and couldn’t be released to their home because neither Of them could look after the other - so we moved them a few hundred miles - and in with us. We lasted a month - Don’t underestimate the impact on your family. We were then lucky enough to find a retirement flat in a complex near us that we could rent - which was perfect for the few years we had after that.

If they’ve been in residential care for the last 10 years, I suspect managing them in your own home, even with help, would be a nightmare. They will be used to someone on call 24/7, literally.

Sorry, I’ve re read, they’re not in residential care.
I still wouldn’t do it, esp with an unwell DH.
Maintain your boundaries along with your sanity.
Have you ever had to provide personal care?

I think I have moved in (although I have also worked out where a bathroom could go). Have been looking at homes and found some that can be rented - am going to go and see some and go from there. Will prioritise sanity!