Ghosts - sign of decline or symptom of grief

[mirrorleggingssock]

My dad died 3 years ago and naturally my mum has had a very difficult time. Recently she seems to have become a bit obsessed with the idea that his ‘spirit’ is in the house. I should say that she has always believed in this sort of thing, but that being said I am a bit concerned that something more is going on, or she needs to seek professional help for her intense grief.

She has set up cameras all over the house and is convinced she is capturing my dad speaking to her whilst she is asleep. Honestly any sounds captured just sound like her groaning or snoring in her sleep and nothing more. She has claimed that she’s dreamt he’s made her breakfast and woke up and come downstairs to a freshly made pot of coffee and other similar things. She claims she can smell certain things in the house or she hears him shuffling about.

Whilst I feel the opposite about these sorts of things I could sort of see that she might find it comforting to think of him as being there. However as time goes on she is starting to sound a bit concerning. She will tell anyone who will listen and they too look bemused or at her like she is losing the plot.

Is this something to worry about?

I'm in the depths of grief at the moment after DH sudden death 7 months ago. I'm nearly 60 so not that much younger than your mum. I completely understand her desperately wanting signs (I believe strongly in life after death and signs, always have).
But saying he is making her breakfast is beyond what I would class as signs. I think if I was saying things like that I would like my children to have the difficult conversation with me. If I knew it wasn't real but it brought me comfort they would probably ask me not to say it to others. They know me well enough to understand that the very worst thing for me would be people laughing at me. If I actually believed it, then I think that they would try and get me some support or grief counselling. But it would start with the first unwelcome conversation.

It’s not uncommon to see and hear things post bereavement or during falling and waking. BUT your moms interpretation of video footage is b concerning.

There maybe many reasons why but she must been seen by her GP

Water infection?

Traumatic loss manifest as PTSD which can include sensory disturbances

Cognitive decline - but she is young for this

If she has severe untreated depression arising from the grief it is also possible to have these types of disturbances

She needs to be assessed by a CPN ideally and if you can be present to advise of changes that would help.

Contact 111 option 2 they can refer or GP to share concerns as her risk will increase as she becomes more unwell

I would say I spend time with my mum but we are not close. She is not the best at keeping information to herself so I’m very careful with what I share with her but we can spend time socialising just fine. My brother also brought up grief counselling (we’d discussed it between us) - her reaction at the time was to say that she didn’t think she needed it and it won’t bring my dad back so what’s the point. This was around 18 months after so not something I think we rushed to suggest to her.

When my DDad died, I did find comfort thinking he was "out there" somewhere, and even "heard" his voice in my ear saying my name once. My belief system changed somewhat from ultra sceptic to "maybe there's something" - I think it's part of grief (not for everyone obviously) but as she was already a believer, I think this is not a surprise.
I'd be concerned about the coffee thing, just in case she got up, made it and then forgot. But I think there would be other signs if it was actual mental decline. It's probably grief - it's such a powerful thing, it can change who you are.

This is beyond grief counselling- they wouldn’t take her on if they knew what you’ve described and also if she didn’t tell them at intake assessment while she waits she can get worse

Please act to rule out potentially serious conditions so she doesn’t end up pouring scalding water for the deceased and then slipping or worse trying to join them - sorry I’m
not being dramatic but it is concerning - as you said others have also said ‘what the heck’ it’s not just you that has noticed the unrealistic interpretations

Maybe I need to pay more attention to others reactions. I think because I know how strongly she has always felt about this type of thing being real I’m more reticent to say something. Put it this way if this was a friend of hers she would believe it as opposed to wondering if something was wrong - I know that sounds mad but that’s just how she’s always been. She once had an almighty falling out with my dad who teased her about watching those ghost hunter tv programmes.

I’d definitely be worried about this. It could be a sign of psychotic illness or dementia. She needs to be assessed.

Yes maybe
On the face of it, it’s concerning hence my previous comments.

A MH assessment by GP/CPN (latter will be longer and more in depth) will take into account how a persons beliefs/faith maybe impacting them. It’s not easy to decipher what is a harmless belief that maybe of comfort to someone like your Mom or something more serious. Based on what you’ve said I wouldn’t want to wait to find out. Either way she needs some help to cope and process her loss. Putting cameras up to capture a spirit is kind of sad but understandable in one way but not in another.

Is she still able to manager money, orient to time and place, is her short term memory ok? - these things need to be considered alongside what is going on for her.

Have you heard of lewy body syndrome ? One of my ladies developed this after her husband died . They were very close she was convinced he was visiting her every night . She was much older though in her 80 s

Also see if she will go for an eye test to rule out things like Charles Bonnet syndrome. If she's always been a bit woo and is recently bereaved then she could be attributing hallucinations caused by a sight problem to a genuine belief that she is being visited.

As far as I am aware she is managing money ok and nothing to suggest she isn’t aware of the time of day/where she is - she’s managing to get to her job and do it as well as attend appointments for other things and meet up with people.

Memory wise bit more difficult to tell. She will certainly repeat the same thing over a couple of different conversations but I think sometimes she doesn’t remember who she’s told things to always and she’ll say that so if she’s told me or my brother. She writes a lot of stuff down on her calendar about what she’s doing and when but I take that as her putting down things to look forward to such as lunch with a friend or when someone is visiting as opposed to being a bit of a crutch. I sometimes think she picks thing up wrong when she’s told them/hears the bits she wants to hear but I think for some people that’s normal?

If this is new behaviours 3 years after a loss - I would be looking for a clinical assessment - as others have said it could be a range of things.

My MIL started ‘seeing’ her dead husband, 10 years after his death and it was the start of dementia.

What I’ve said about the memory thing isn’t new I would say that been the case since before my dad passed. Sorry I wasn’t sure if you mean the above or the ghost stuff.

Hi there. A lot of these behaviours are screaming dementia to me (possibly Lewy bodies). My DM was exactly the same a few years after we lost my DF. Out of the blue one day she told me my DF was sat on the bed next to her. She continued to tell me he visited her often. Over time it became clear that she was experiencing delusion, paranoia and psychosis. This can include hearing things, smelling things and seeing things that are not there. What stood out to me about your post was the comment that she’s making notes about her weekly schedule. My DM started to do this, and my DMIL. It’s because the brain loses the ability to remember planned activities. Don’t be fooled by doctors or anyone rise telling you she can’t have dementia because her short term memory is ok. That is often not the first symptom. Both my DM and DMIL have dementia (different types). Their hallucinations and delusions escalated over the years to the point they are now in care homes. There’s not much you can do at this stage but watch and see sadly.

When we emptied my DMIL’s house when she went in a care home with dementia we found A4 notebooks FULL from top to bottom and front to back of records like this:

Mon 24.07.21
Called X
Had fish for dinner
Sent card to Y
raining

Tues 25.07.21
Z came over
Had soup at 10 am
Head feels fuzzy
Rang doctors

Weds 26.07.21
Went into town
Margaret’s sister popped by
Did some washing

There were thousands of logs going back three years. We realised she’d had the books in front of her when calling us, hiding the fact she couldn’t remember what she’d done and when, so she started keeping a meticulous log of her daily interactions. It was the most heart breaking thing we came across when sorting her house out. It painted a picture of her decline in the most confronting way. I almost felt the records should be given to a dementia organisation as medical insight and research.

Hi OP, I think you seriously need to consider this is the start of a worsening of dementia, in particular Lewy Body, as others have mentioned.

You say her memory, or repetition of things is not brand new but this behaviour is.

My mum started to hallucinate, believing neighbours and others were coming over, people out in the street and in the house. It got progressively worse quite quickly once it started. Prior to that it was clear there were memory, cognition, anxiety issues but this is when it really stepped up a notch.

Often Lewy Body can present itself in sleep, people waking up often, moving in strange ways, falling out of bed, so if I were you I’d humour her and watch the video but watch carefully to see what she’s doing as it might give you a clue.

I do hope it’s not but worth investigating a little if it helps.

My mum did this too. It’s odd how upsetting it is to see them.

they got increasingly erratic and scribbled on various bits and pieces here and there.

It’s a bloody awful disease.

Want to 💯 endorse your second paragraph. Grief 'halluincations' are a real thing - ie a very real sense that your (deceased partner) is audibly talking to you. Or you can see him. Or smell him. And for those moments, he's back. And it's so real. And apparently this isn't something requiring urgent medical intervention but not uncommon.

However...

... what OP describes goes beyond this... - though whether that's attention seeking or wishful thinking or some off key belief system or symptomatic of an emerging medical condition is unclear.

And agree that some form of medical intervention would be wise!

It really is - and I hadn't realised until very recently that it's our biggest killer disease, more so than heart disease and stroke. I mean, WTAF

My.mum had a lot of hallucinations after my Dad died. She said he would come and sit on the sofa with her. She'd also see children in the house.

She was diagnosed with dementia a few years later. Apparently vivid hallucinations are a common early sign.

First port of call should be the GP for a urine test to rule out a UTI,she could have delirium from it. Take it from there but this isn't normal and she needs proper medical help.

May I ask what you thought when she started telling you this? Did it just seem like part of grieving at the time?

I need to visit in a few weeks so I’m going to really carefully watch what she is saying and doing, look for other evidence something might not be right - like the note taking for example. I’ve been reading that people can essentially keep their symptoms covered for a long time in various ways. My dog died a couple of years back and after my mum said the odd thing about swearing she’d seen our dog in the garden, in a ‘oh I walked into the room and could have swore for a minute I saw dog sunbathing outside’ kind of way. It had never lived at the house and had only visited a handful of times so it’s not as though through habit she’d expect to see it. I didn’t really think anything at the time because it didn’t seem like that mad of a thing for her to say given how she is.

I’ll bring up what she has been saying and try and persuade her to get checked, even if it’s from the angle of saying maybe the stress is affecting her.

Hi. What did I think? Hmmm. I remember first being struck by how matter of fact she seemed about saying it to me. That was my first red flag. Because it was just so random and she said it in an emotionless way. I did not think it was part of the grieving process no. Because he’d been gone a number of years and she had successfully found a new way of living without him. What happens in the brain during hallucinations is that the electrical signals sort of misfire/fail near the part responsible for creating images. So the brain will try to fill in the gaps. I’m not explaining this very well. It can’t process the information it is receiving so it makes something up. And for whatever reason that something can be dead people and pets, or now my DM has moved on to much more distressing visions.

Its very confusing in the early years because they’ll do something really left field, so you’ll watch them like a hawk, then they’ll act extremely competent in most other areas, so you’ll watch them think you are being daft in thinking anything is wrong. For example, my mum could still pay bills online and deal with quite complex paperwork. But around this time she hand wrote a card and posted it, congratulating a close relative on the birth of their new grandchild. She sent it to the wrong relative. This relative was much too old to be getting a new grandchild and only had one child who had grandchildren years and years ago. But she’d written quite a lot in the card that was thoughtful, articulate and well written. It was so odd because at the same time my DM was attending the gym five times a week, meeting friends socially, using her mobile no problem etc etc.

Children in the house is a common hallucination. My DM had this. She called me to say my daughter was at her house and had now left and she was worried where she’d gone. My daughter was at school all day and was absolutely not at her house.