Are daughters still expected to shoulder most care for elderly parents?

[EndlessSeaViews]

I was thinking about my own situation.

Over the last 8 years I have run myself ragged trying to help and appease my elderly father who has always been a difficult person to deal with. He lives with my mum who has dementia (now in the advancing stages). My sister helps too, on a lesser level as she works full time but she still does a fair bit for them.

I admit we are probably our own worst enemies but the issue with dementia is that it starts so small and you are happy to help out a little, then a little more, a bit more still and suddenly 8 years have passed by, you take stock and realise your emotional and physical work load has increased to levels you never would have willingly taken on had you fully understood the 'assignment'!

I then look at my in-laws. they have two sons - DH and BIL. MIL was diagnosed with a rare cancer in 2018 the same year my mum was diagnosed with dementia and whilst I was attending every appointment and getting all the help and info I could for my parents whilst also doing all their life admin, washing, cleaning etc (dad went to pieces and still struggles), my poor in-laws were attending every medical appointment on their own, bewildered and not understanding much at all because DH works full time (although he did try to attend as many appointments as he could) and BIL is a lazy arse who, although not working at the time, felt it was too much for him. There were times when we would contact the in-laws to discover they had spend the night in A&E and they wanted to 'bother' DH or BIL.

Mil has sadly passed away and FIL is on his own. Last year he fell and laid for 2 days without anyone knowing this because unlike my sister and I who call our on our parents on the daily, DH only sees his dad once a week and BIL once a fortnight (he lives 5 miles away).

And today it's ME who is feeling terrible because FIL is having a cataract removed and has no one to take him, he will go on the bus and come back on the bus. I have a social services care assessment for my mum so can't do it but have told him if he is still in hospital when it has ended at 2pm to call me straight away and I will collect him. He won't though because he has become so used to his children not always helping him that he does it all himself, he is 85. I feel so bad for him.

My friend and her sil have in-laws nearby, both have dementia and both my friend and sister in law wash them, dress them and look after all their needs. They have three sons who all live nearby yet it's the wives caring for them.

My own mother did everything for her dad once my nan died, my father only popped in on his mum once a week at most when she was on her own, I went her saw her more than he did and I was in my 20's and working full time.

I notice on all the dementia support groups that the majority of unpaid carers for elderly parents are women. There are of course exceptions to the rule but most are women. I am even on a FB group called Dementia Daughters. You'd be very surprised to know that there isn't a Dementia Son's group.

It still seems to be a given that women will take on this load, my father thinks family should always help out but by 'family' I am sure he means 'women'. As I say, I didn't see him going out of his way to help my GP all those years ago.

I know things will never change unless we change them but I do think the elderly need to change their views. I will have it put in a living will that I do not want my own children caring for me should I become elderly, demented or just needing extra help, I would rather pay for that help or go into a care home.

Does anyone else feel the same way?

It’s your choice to go along with this kind of sexist cultural expectation, though. People can expect all they like. I certainly won’t be doing it for my parents or PILs.

Do you work FT OP?

We’re currently at the stage where my DB does more for my parents. But he lives locally (I don’t) and the day to day is fine, it’s the DIY and garden jobs that require help now which he’s pretty good at.

It's often so much easier said than done though. I have made things easier by getting carers in now and having assessments etc but as I say, with dementia it does creep up so slowly and before you know it you are in the thick of things.

Hindsight is obviously a great thing and had I know just how bad things would get (I have no previous experience of dementia), I would have obviously done things a lot differently but I do think this is a common issue. You help out a little and before you know it, it becomes a lot.

I won't let this be the case for my own DC though. We live and learn.

No. I had to give up full time work due to health issues.

I know of one couple where the husband gave up work (he earned less) to look after his MIL who has moved in with them. His own mother was expected to fend for herself. Most PILS that I know are left alone and there is bad feeling if a husband spends time helping his parents. If you read the threads on MN there is a lot of disapproval towards men who help care / pay attention to their own parents whilst being expected to help/care for the female partner's parents. There are huge double standards on here. Any man who helps care for his own parents is enmeshed. However, on here, its natural for women to care for their mothers because your mum is your mum. Statistically lots more daughters have their mothers/ parents to live with them in old age in the UK. It is rare for a husband to have his parents dependent on him.
Statistically women are much more likely to give up work early to look after their own parents and generally men are expected to work for more years to subsidise their wife so she can care for her parents.
I know one elderly MIL very much left alone until the DIL noticed that the MIL was increasingly depending on a kindly niece. The MIL owned her own house in London worth a lot. At that point, the MIL got a bit more attention.
MN loves to use the expression 'Mummy's Boy' for any man involved in his parents lives. It is according to many surveys one of the biggest turn offs for women.Yet most women assume that their husbands/partners take on her parents as part of the deal. I know of two women who made their husbands agree before marriage that Christmases would always be spent with her parents.
So yes, I think women who tend to retire at least 5 years before their husbands or who have never really worked after having children, do look after their parents. However, it is something that a lot of women choose to do. Husbands often don't have the same flexibility with regard to work.

”expected” by who? I don’t think women are expected to do the caring in the sense of “it’s women’s work”; but certainly women are far more likely to be carers. Maybe women are just nicer people?

My DH visits his widowed Mum every day. He attends all her consultant appointments and recently took time off to support her having an operation.

He supports her with admin, DIY and household chores.

He makes sure she gets out the house regularly, facilitates her seeing friends and spends time with her just sitting chatting so she isn’t lonely.

I’d be pretty appalled if I was married to a man that didnt support his elderly parents as far as possible.

Oh and just for avoidance of doubt, he works full time in a senior role.

I clean for several elderly people, I notice those with son's have less family involved help than those with daughters. I also notice the majority of us on the dementia carers support groups are women.

Before I gave up full time work I was a PA for disabled people, we would attend regular groups, day centres etc and the majority of the family members attending with their disabled relatives were also women. The carers and most of those running these groups were also mainly women.

Your husband sounds like a very caring son but from my experience over the years, sadly I think he's the exception to the rule.

I'm not sure who expects it from us? Men? Society? I do think it is expected, even more so within certain cultures.

Maybe we are generally nicer humans?

It was expected that the women of the family would do more up until fairly recently. Now that my grandmother requires a bit more help (she is 98, after all), she tries to ask her son for help as much as my mother... even though he is not as patient, and they drive each other up the wall because they are both very stubborn! She has accepted some help with cleaning, gardening and even has the odd ready meal now. DGM ran herself ragged working, raising a family, caring for a dying sibling and her remaining elderly parent. My DM did similar. I suspect that, when push comes to shove, unless she also accepts help, I would be expected to do everything for DM when she is older, even though I live much further away. My sibling said that she can move into the sheltered accommodation across the road from his house...

I agree with the first reply, it is your choice to help to this extent. It seems that you are expecting it of yourself, no one else is.

I am an only child and my mother lived with dementia for ten years (she died last year). I organised her care at home, and rang once a week, but I rarely visited because she lived a few hours away. I then moved her to a care home near me and visited once a fortnight. I did all the organising and financial paperwork which was time consuming, but I didn’t run my entire life round her.

If you are happy to help to this extent that's your choice, but I wouldn't criticise your husband for not doing the same.

My dp did a lot of caring for his dm and I love him for it.
I also see plenty of men, caring for their elderly parents in A&E

I thought everyone knew that men don't really do any work unless it's paid or will get them a huge amount of recognition.

I don't agree that it's your choice to go along with the sexist cultural expectation, as I don't think it's sexist to look after your parents. Surely it would be preferable for both sexes to share the load, in which case it's men that are choosing to go along with the sexist cultural expectation by not getting involved. My parents don't expect me to care for them in old age but of course I'm not going to leave them to suffer. I just hope my brothers will help them out, too.

If they are, then the daughters need to develop a spine and say "no". We all have agency in these matters.

I'm the eldest and only girl from a sibling set of 4

My parents made it clear that it was expected of me to do all the caring of them when they got old

Unfortunately for them,they are abusive and I walked away 15 years ago

They are now at the stage of starting to need care and it's not expected that my brothers will lift a finger

('But they are men!,caring is womens work')

I won't be lifting a finger-either the men do it and earn their inheritance or they pay for it

I'm the one in the wrong for not wanting to give up my whole life to run around after them

@EndlessSeaViews. I think women are much much nicer to their own parents than to their PILS. How do women who give up work in their fifties to care for their parents cope financially? Generally, their husbands support them. I don’t think anyone on MN would form the impression that women are caring to their PILS. I reported a group of posters on here recently laughing about ‘punishing’ their MILS by tricking them into thinking they had dementia.
I think women are nice to those they love. There are plenty of stories on here about women treating other non biological women really badly.
There are many Evolutionary and Kinship Theories such as the Cinderella Effect that shows how hostile women are to non biologically related female family members.
Intrasexual Competition: Studies on female competition indicate that women evaluate other women as potential rivals for status, familial support, and material resources managed by male or core family members. 1, 2, 3]
Most women are lovely to biological family members. Research shows they are not ‘nicer’ to non biologically related women in the extended family.

I cared for my grandmother in her last year of life, the rest of the family were happy to bark out orders and control her finances but gave no practical support at all. She was a bugger too, used to have her carers in to help up get up and she'd tell them she could manage then she'd ring me in tears saying she wasn't dressed so I'd have to do the 12 mile round trip to sort her out....

I don't think it's gender related, some people are just too selfish to be able to care for someone else in that way.

Yes I think women are more expected to do these things, because we are 'better at it' ( reality is we tend to get on with doing it and therefore of course we are better at it) unfortunately I think women are expected to be the carer whether its for children or others.
OH calls his mum late 80's everyday and visits after work most days, takes shopping etc ( for the fresh bread, fruit etc on top of the online shop) mornings out , appointments etc but neither of us will be doing any physical care in the future so she will require carers at home or a care home at some point maybe.

i know a number of sons that do more (or in brothers case does equal, to my sister, I’m unfortunately letting the side down at the moment, work won’t give me time off regularly to help with mums appointments although I try to get up as much as possible) but it does take a certain personality, all the ones I know are the type that do half at home, that are responsible, easy going and caring in general. The ones I know that don’t help are your stereotypes, the do nothing at home crowd.

If your DH and BIL won't / can't pick up the slack then they need to be looking at organising and paying someone who will. Even hiring a private cleaner or gardener a couple of times a week makes sure someone puts eyes on them. They just need to organise themselves better. I know if dh couldn't do hospital appointments due to work, then I would as his partner and the co-beneficiary of that work. Our families are quite traditional, but whilst it would be expected by the elderly that the women "step up", the generation down wouldn't see the (non intimate) caring roles defined by gender.

I don’t think this is the case, I look after my mum who’s in her 80s and my husband looks after both of his parents who both have dementia, and are now in care his sister lives literally in thr next village to them and has neglected them and done fuck all, we live 8 hours away. So we have huge chucks of time when he’s having to travel and spend time it’s them and arrange all the legal stuff, his other brother has zero contact. I just think it depends on individuals and how they were raised and how their own lives have panned out. We don’t have the time for this we both work we have young adults still at home but we’ve just had to carve out time.

In most couples/ families the woman takes on the caring role from the minute she has children, if not before. Most of the mothers of young children I know work part-time, if at all, so that they can look after their children and reduce childcare bills. Few of the fathers work part-time and I don’t know a single stay at home dad. It’s unsurprising that when care is needed for parents or other wider family members this also falls to the women, the same women who cared for the children. Sometimes this may be logistical (eg: if the woman continued to work part-time or not to work at all beyond the children being small) but often it’s because that is the set up and expectation that was ingrained years ago. If a father wasn’t even expected or willing to take on much care for his own children in the baby/ toddler years it’s unsurprising he won’t expect or be willing to take on any care for his elderly parents.

My mother expects me to drop everything and provide whatever care or assistance is required. Shes given my number as her emergency contact, so all sorts of people and organisations call me expecting me to drop everything and go and help. So yes, its largely seen as a daughters job by the majority. And they really don't like it if you say no, I was in hospital with a DC once when another hospital called to say my mother was being admitted and would I come. The woman who called me was quite shocked when I said no.
There are plenty of men who care for their elderly and vulnerable, but they aren't the majority sadly.

I think that is a HUGE generalisation and something I do not see in my life or those around me st all. I regularly spend time with my MIL( without my oh) and get on with her very well. She spends every xmas with us etc and is often invited to lunch etc

Women are more caring so it's no surprise that they do most of this. So, in that way, it's "expected", nothing to do with sexism but more to do with biology. But is that so bad? Doesn't it mean that women are wonderful, vital and valuable? There are caring men out there too!

I agree it's a massive burden though. I wouldn't wish it on my own kids, I would happily end it at that point.