AIBU To think carers should get the person dressed in the morning

[notgivinga]

Just that really it’s my MIL so really not my place to say, but she sits all day in her pyjamas. I just think it would be so much better for her mentally to get dressed. Thoughts?

Long as shes clean i dont see the problem they cannot force her it goes against a lot of things. She’s most likely refusing or telling them no thank you. In another sense pajamas are more comfortable than clothes so maybe another reason?

Absolutely they cannot “make her”. Just think how making someone get dressed would look. It would involve putting hands on a person against their will if they are refusing to get dressed and forcing them. Something like that has to be discussed at senior level and appropriately care planned. It can be incredibly distressing for a person to be forced to get dressed and could also physically hurt them if they were resisting. Unless she is at risk from not getting dressed i.e she is sat in wet/rotten clothing that is causing her a hazard then there is little justification to enforce getting dressed.

@TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCrossWhat a lovely post completely misses the point of the thread

I’m a Nurse in a nursing home and there is no way you can force someone to get changed if they don’t want to , it’s called individual choice and forcing someone to get dressed in abuse . You can suggest they may like to get changed but if the answer is no it is no . I just document if someone refused to get changed. Sometimes a family member has more luck. As long as the person is clean and suitable clothing for the weather on is as much as you can do

I don't really understand why you can't get involved just because it is your MIL and not your DM? Don't your DH and you discuss it and have a common approach? You obviously care about her and are family too.

PS The not getting dressed would bother me too.

What does your husband think about her in pyjamas all day?

Does it matter if she's in pajamas? Who does it make feel better if she wears other clothes?

This is something you need to speak with the service management providing the care. Who knows in this situation whether the carers are just shirking, or whether your mil is refusing to be dressed. Either way, it’s something that can be sorted once you know the reason behind it.

@notgivinga maybe she won't let them dress her?? Whereas its her son and hes family ao could be why she lets him? Also some people can be very stubborn with carer's.

If she's clean and otherwise taken care of, then I don't see the problem.

If I was elderly and sitting around all day, then I'd prefer to do it in my comfy pyjamas. I definitely wouldn't appreciate being forced to get dressed.

I would think that most carers going in would be asking her what she wants to wear.
Are they getting her washed and into clean pyjamas, but you'd rather she have day clothes, or are you saying she is in the same nightwear as at night?

If you make sure she has easy to wear clothes available and write a note for the carers, then hopefully they will try.
If she doesn't want them to change her though then they aren't going to force her. Family members are probably able to be more insistent than a care worker.
We aren't prison officers. Consent is everything.
Check in her care notes if she is refusing.

When i worked in care many years ago, I got extremely good at cajoling and joking and getting people washed and dressed, because our matron would have our guts for garters if we didn't. I took a break from care and when I went back, the training was all about a client/patient's right to choose. We were literally expected to ask them if they wanted to wash and get dressed, and if they said no, that was meant to be that.
What it meant was, the old school carers would jolly them on and get the job done. "Come on darling, I know you worked on a farm but you don't want to smell like a farmyard now, do you? That's it, up and over, quick wash, nice clean jumper, don't you look lovely, would you like a little spray of perfume?"
^^that's now considered patronising, coercive, not person centred etc
So the less experienced but better trained staff would leave them sitting in their own wee. And then the powers that be would be after us because of the potential for bedsores.
That's probably why it's happening @notgivinga The carers can genuine say they asked and the client said no, and as long as it's written in the notes, apparently it's fine.
This is why family end up doing it, because they don't have to abide by those rules.
Ed for typo

Of course she should be dressed. She should be washed and dressed every day. Are they actually washing her? How often are they changing PJ's?

It's MILs choice, no one can forcefully dress her. It would also need to be specifically written in the care plan. They would need to be carefully considering MILs dignity, consent and any risks.

When my own DM was in a care home she refused point blank to allow the carers to do more than the absolute minimum personal care. We didn’t like it and did ask why she didn’t look more cared for but they explained that they can prompt, encourage but not force someone and that having some autonomy over their care was more important to some than their appearance, particularly if they never left their room. Plenty of people live like this independently, being in care shouldn’t take away the choice to make poor decisions about fairly minor issues.

That’s quite a leap. If she refuses then they can’t force her.
OP I imagine your DH has more time and more influence than the carers. Family are much more likely to ignore the person saying no and carry on trying to persuade. Carers can’t really do that much.
If it’s a concern then your DH needs to speak to the carers to find out why they aren’t dressing her in day clothes. Then work on a solution to the problems they report.

As others have said carers cannot force someone to do anything, they can only suggest. If she says no they have to leave it.

Your husband does not have that issue of consent, he will just get on with it, because he is not a professional carer he's her son.

So you can raise the issue but it won't go anywhere if MIL is refusing to get dressed.

There are a lot of people on MN who claim to be in pjs all day if just chilling out.

Because your DH is allowed to not take no for an answer (bully her) into a wash and a change of clothing but her care team are not.

If you think the care team are not trying to get her dressed the only solution is to have family members take the time to turn up for a couple of weeks and see what is actually happening on a daily basis.

Timing of getting up toilet washing amd changing clothes and food could be moved to some tea/ food as DMIL will be more aware of what is going on and has moved around a little so going into the bathroom is just a pitstop before she sits down.

And if she is in night clothes all day I would be asking how often are the carers managing to change her cloths and get her washed.

And sometimes you need to look at the clothing is it all easy to change into wide neck tops with no buttons can be better than blouse with small buttons etc

And have the clothing set out in daily outfits rather than a pick-n-mix

Agreed, but with older people who require carers, it becomes about hygiene as well. I had a number of clients who'd get washed and then back into nightwear as it was comfortable, but we'd make sure the nightwear was clean.

This

Thanks all appreciate all your thoughts

I'm a carer and take exception to the idea that I am lazy.
This morning I have washed and dressed 4 people, changed 2 beds and done the medication and breakfast for 4.
My next visit is with a woman who I know will refuse personal care. I leave her clean clothes next to the bed and hope she takes off the ones she's been wearing since last Tuesday day and night.
Although she lacks capacity, she has the right to refuse getting dressed or washed

Not if she didn't want to get dressed. She would be encouraged to get dressed but a decent care home doesn't force older people to do things because it suits them. As long as the carers are supporting her to get washed and changing her pjs . They should also record that they offered her support to get dressed .

carers are not lazy they are marvels. It should be in the care plan what it has been agreed they should do so you could have a look at that as it’s usually a folder left one where accessible, talk to care company or just ask the carers who are there.