Any advice to convince MIL of a sensible house move

[blueskygreengrass2]

I am hugely frustrated and looking for advice and pearls of wisdom.

Long summary below but if you can't be bothered to read it all (I don't blame you) we want to convince MIL to move to sheltered accommodation or some kind of retirement community rather than a small house in our town.

MIL is 80 and has serious memory issues - repeats stories, cannot remember information just given to her, unable to cope well in new environments (hotels etc), losing her mobile phone etc constantly, unable to cope with quite simple admin like banking. This all makes her very panicky and depressed. She has had all the relevant medical tests and received no diagnosis other than normal memory decline for her age. Everyone who knows her does not think this is an adequate description of her condition.

She recently had some kind of episode where she stopped taking her medication (including anti anxiety meds) and possibly had a UTI and was unable to function. She seemed to stop eating and was asking everyone she knew in her village to help her with paperwork (paperwork DH had visited her to sort out and simplify). She became a shell of herself to be honest and we received many guilt inducing messages about how she needed help.

I feel very sorry for her and wish we could help more. We have 2 young children though and she doesn't drive and lives 2 hours away. We do see her twice a month but it is a lot of work. Her cottage is too small to sleep us all (and she finds it stressful having guests) so more often than not my DH does a 4 hour round trip to collect her and another 4 hour trip to get her home.

DH has financial and medical POA and attends most medical appts with her.

Following the 'episode' she was obviously scared and agreed to move to our town. We all agreed on a flat in an Audley place (I know they are a money pit, she can afford it, can't cope with thread being derailed). She can afford to buy outright so no chain, minimal stress and we will sell her place for her when she has moved.

But now she is more confident and feeling better she is backtracking and saying she wants to buy a house. We just really think it is a bad idea! The viewings themselves will be a total headache (8 hours of driving each time) and I just don't think she will cope with a new home at all. Plus she has no friends here - it feels more likely that she will feel less lonely in the Audley place, even if she doesn't make friends (she seems reluctant) because at least she will see people day to day. Crucially the Audley place may well see her through.

A few years ago when she was in a better place she decided to move near us and made an offer on somewhere but the stress of the process caused her to have a mini breakdown and she backed out (this was what initiated the anti anxiety medication I believe!)

Any wisdom on convincing her to be sensible?

I have read this through and it sounds a bit cold. We just want what's best for her. If she is near us we will be able to include her in our lives and keep her busy. She loves our dog and her grandchildren so much, there is not much for her in her village other than a couple of also elderly friends. Sorry for typos - kids waking.

@Harassedevictee
I agree with all you say. And even if she keeps the exact same appliances she will forget how to use them, or misuse them. My mother stayed at home with a daily carer for nearly two years before moving to a care home, and they had to disable the gas cooker because when the carer left she would put toast under the grill, forget it and set off the smoke alarms, and knock for a neighbour asking 'what that noise is'. Terrifying.

I wouldn’t look at “retirement complexes” at 80. At that age she could be fine for a decade or more but could equally find herself needing a lot more care at any time. Even the shock and strain of the move could cause issues.

If she really wants to move then look to see if there is a bungalow/garden maisonette she would like but stick with regular properties which are saleable if her situation changes. Whether she stays or moves look into private carers to visit daily to at least ensure medication is taken, there is some social contact etc.

The property forums are full of former residents and their adult children bemoaning the hell and financial loss on “retirement complex” apartments and the punitive fees charged on empty properties and transfers.

Yes, my neighbour is in mid 70s, on lifetime chemo and her garden is her sanity and keeps her active. She has built it up over decades.

There is a real shortage of good property for active downsizing. Most of the downsizers I’ve known start looking for a smaller house and garden, find the gardens are tiny or non existent compared to the house and anything with much garden will leave them with a net cost on the move. Downsizing from a 4 bed to a 3 bed or 3 bed to 2 areas around my way will cost money, not free up capital by the time all the fees are paid.

All the taxes/costs disincentivise downsizing here, combine that with a lack of suitable retirement properties (other than the scam type) and its no surprise people stay put.

I think the best thing to do is try to adapt yourself, not her. It's going to be incredibly difficult to persuade her or change her mind so you are setting yourself up for misery and likely failure. I know what you want is best for her but you have to be realistic here sadly and go along with her whims.

We had similar with my MIL. Only my DH to look out for her - luckily he worked in the same city she lived in (over an hour away from us) For 4 years he stayed there Mon to Fri only coming home weekends. After many emergency admissions we had carers 3 times a day but that could be a bit hit and miss - eg phone call at 8.30 that the evening visit had been missed and she hadn't been settled for night etc. We suggested moving to nearer our home but she was very resistant. Eventually she agreed to a care home near where she lived and it was the best thing we did. Church members and some friends used to visit her, we weren't on pins every time the phone rang, my DH still worked in her city and could drop off anything she needed and see her at the same time. But it was me who had to persuade her - we think that she saw my DH as a little boy but she'd only known me as an adult so was more likely to take on board what I said.

She died a coupe of years ago and we are now both retired - we have made some major renovations to our house which could now have a downstairs bedroom if needed in the future, we have a Coop lierally next door, a bus stop across the road and a station 5 min walk away so hopefully if things get difficult for us to drive, etc we can carry on a bit longer. My children know that if push come to shove a care home would be my preferred option to them running themselves ragged

A true Catch 22, unfortunately. The reason she needs to move is exactly the reason why she can't make the decision to do so.

Trying to reason her into it won't work. All you can do is put as much support in place as possible, so when it all comes crashing down you end up in a (hopefully) salvageable position.

My total sympathies for you. Sadly by the age of eighty with memory loss it's always going to be an uphill struggle either way. If your mother-in-law stays where she is, then I think you need to put in lots of support - several care visits per day, a cleaner and a gardener - at least this will ease the load on your husband and you. If by some miracle she does decide she will move near you, then the idea of a small house, flat or bungalow sounds good. You will have more agency and autonomy by buying in the private sector rather than sheltered expensive housing. Then, if the worst happens, and she needs residential care, you should be able to sell her property more quickly than those sheltered flats.

If only people would think ahead, so much angst could be avoided. Everyone gets old, that's the sad inevitability, and it's the family who have the stress, sadness and worry of dealing with the situation. Luckily I lived near my Dad who was aged 88 when Mum died. Even then, with both work and a young child, I employed both a housekeeper for Dad and a carer visit before bed. It was still stressful - such a responsibility.

Our daughter asked us about five years ago if we would consider moving nearer to them, and we achieved that just before Covid hit. We were mid-sixties and I wouldn't have wanted to leave it any longer. We moved from a period house with a large garden and orchard to a modern one, still a decent size with downstairs loo and possibility of a downstairs bedroom and a small but lovely garden. At present we have the joy of helping them with their young children and the security of knowing we're all near to each other. But I know through the situation of dear older friends that the situation can change in a moment - it only takes illness or an unexpected fall.

Sorry there are no easy answers, I do feel for you both, and also your mother-in-law - I bet she is confused and frightened. There are no winners here whatever course of action you and she take.

I think you and your DH would be better focused on getting some care in place for now. If she is anything like my DPs she will be fiercely resistant, so start off with a cleaner, and then up their hours and if possible they can assist with checking food is in date, changing sheets etc. Do you or DH have financial POA? If you do it’s worth getting that physically set up at least on her main current account, so you can take over paying bills etc. as needed. At least if she has money she can pay for what she needs - if she actually agrees she needs it.

You don’t sound cold you sound practical and caring. We have also experienced this with MIL wanting to move to an impractical property very close to us and to be frank she wouldn’t be able to cope with it and it would put too much pressure on us to be her full time carers (we have two small children as well). For us this situation is on hold but will rear its head again in the future.

Is your husband her only child?

I would advise the three of you sitting down and going through both options - her buying a house and the Audley Place. Explain to her the level of support she would need to live independently in a house isn’t going to be practical and be clear that you both think the latter option is going to suit her needs best. Stress to her how she can be involved with you both and the grandchildren and try to make it seem positive in her eyes. I feel for you because it’s very tricky but you and your husband will likely need to be blunt and very honest with her. The problem I had was my husband selling his relative an unrealistic dream about what life would be like if they moved closer, I had to speak to them and be honest and hopefully they’ve listened to an extent, but I expect it’s just been kicked down the road for a year or so. Hopefully she will listen to you both and take your advice.

@blueskygreengrass2 absolute sympathy for you and everyone else in similar situations. I think you know there is not going to be a move so it really falls down to what can be put in place to keep her safe.

The hard bit is and I say this kindly - if she will not accept a care assessment or external help you find yourself in a really difficult situation. That is where we are. Utter refusal to engage with ASC, GPs have a cleaner. Just expects us to do it. I have recently stepped right back and am simply waiting for the inevitable crisis.

I reflect on some of the comments on here where people plan and move before they are ‘old old’. So sensible and so kind to consider adult children not being left with a mess.

Whilst our parents peers were downsizing in their mid 60s - mid 70s our parents mocked them for doing so. Our parents simply buried their heads in the sand and whilst they had some fabulous holidays made zero plans to de clutter an incredibly full house-nor did they do any maintenance.

Sorry bit of a derail rant there.

Please please set some clear boundaries as to how much you and your DH can help. By all means suggest external support but do not get sucked in. It has made me ill. Take care

Thank you all for your comments. It sounds like I perhaps need a bit of a reality check and to lower my expectations.

Most of you correctly worked out that my DH is her only child. She divorced when he was little and so has lived on her own since he went to uni. There is no recent passing of a partner or anything like that.

Her Doctors all seem to think it is a very good idea for her to move close to us before the window of opportunity closes. So does she a lot of the time! I truly believe she wants to be close to us but just falters when it comes down to it. She is totally miserable in her current set up and does not have a wide circle of friends or many helpful connections.

The only person who provides her with any kind of comfort and can calm her down is DH (and our dog!). I think he is going to have to grow a thicker skin and be less on call unfortunately. I also have 2 parents getting older that I will need to help and as the children have more serious commitments we simply cannot spend our lives circling the M25 :(

I do appreciate, and am grateful for the reminder, that a move can trigger a backwards step health wise at this age. I am still very confident that a move has to happen nonetheless unfortunately.

Current plan of action (please critique!)

1. Take her for another viewing at Audley, hope she sees sense. (even if she isn't there long her finances will cope)
2. If that doesn't work say we will only assist with a move to a house that we deem appropriate (saves the endless viewings if we control the process, there is no way she will be able to move without us running the show). We will choose somewhere nice but sensible!
3. If that doesn't work then we grow thicker skin and sadly wait until things reach more of a crisis level. Seek medical advice on where would be best for her at that point.

All of your comments are a really helpful reminder that actually this is out of our control. Even though we want to do the right thing we can't force this so perhaps we need to make sure we don't feel too guilty about what is to come.

I think she ends up gloomy either way to be honest. Where she is she is very lonely and doesn't see much of her only family so that gets her down. If she moves no doubt she will be gloomy about 'the wonderful home she left behind' as she sees it through rose tinted glass. Arghh what a mess.

I certainly will be moving somewhere sensible well before 80!

Also to add when she had her 'breakdown' a few months ago DH got carers in (now not deemed necessary) and did a few things like redirect her post to us (paperwork overwhelms her). She was totally fine and supportive of these actions.

She is not reluctant to accept help or pretending everything is fine.

@blueskygreengrass2 far too many people putting people like us in this position. I think their world becomes so small they don’t realise the rest of us are not available to become their entertainment.

Remember - YOU DID NOT CAUSE THIS ergo it is not your problem to solve.
Easier said than done I appreciate 🙄

You are fortunate she will engage with help.

If she’s not a sociable person, a retirement village probably isn’t the best place for her.

Instead a nice small bungalow near to you. She can still make it her own, but you’ll have to do all the leg work of selling her place/moving - try to make the process as simple as possible ‘let’s focus on your new curtains..’

I had a family member in a retirement village, as soon as he required more than one carer a day he was essentially given notice. I didn’t realise how brutal they were beforehand but I guess that’s how they encourage spritely 70/80-something-widows instead of them appearing as a care home.

Being two hours away is the killer. She needs to be nearby for you to drop things off/take to the hospital/read an important letter…

yes @breakdown98765 it is these tiny, constant things. Her phone ran out of storage a while back and it was the end of the world....

OK, lots of advice to go for the small house/bungalow. Very helpful.

Also to note that some of the removal companies offer a concierge or “gold” level of service so not only packing everything or unpacking at the other end, but getting utilities set up, taking stuff to the tip etc.
Only used the packing service myself (my “D”M had imagined I’d spend weeks carefully packing all her possessions myself. Er, no!) but outsource what you can of moving as the emotional support required is huge so anything that makes it easier is a win.

Plus the removal service were experts at packing, and do it quickly and efficiently so it avoids all the drama around possessions being packed up.

I don’t know the exact details of Audley homes, but assume they are similar to other residential buildings for the elderly? I would say they are not all you think they will be, and costs for any additional help are extortionate.

My DM lives in a similar set up, she is in her nineties, she needs eye drops twice a day and they wanted to charge her £24 a day to administer. She is 25 steps away from the carers office, I have timed it, it takes less than 3 minutes to walk there, put the drops in and walk back.
She has to pay £10 per day for a lunch of dubious quality, whether she wants it or not, even when she has been in hospital she is still billed for lunches.

Why not go for a small bungalow or ground floor flat that is close to you, she would avoid stairs, and you can put a wet room in, it is not expensive. You would avoid the 4 hour journeys. I don’t think she will have much help in a supported living complex, you can call her every day to ensure she is alright, arrange a few hours of care if necessary.

You would also avoid the high maintenance charges and time involved with resale of the OAP flat should it become necessary, they often take an age to sell.

Yes, that is an issue too. And that their communities are around them, and those are so important.

My MIL has just downsized and was able to be active in her garden until the age of 84. We had a neighbour who was active in her garden every day until the age of 94. So the whole 'downsize at 70' thing is a bit unfair. There might still be a lot of years of joy they can get from their existing home.

OP my DM sounds like she was at a very, very similar stage to your MIL in terms of cognitive decline a couple of years ago. Just a slight cautionary tale. We encouraged our DP to downsize about three years ago. (My dad is in good shape so they decided to buy a standard house.) On paper, the move literally couldn't have been more perfect: old house was in little village with no amenities and DM had stopped driving, big garden that she couldn't manage, neighbours that they'd had a big dispute with so mostly didn't speak to - new house perfect size, lovely little garden with a few easy raised beds, located in the lovely town that DM had always wanted to live in, and really quiet road but literally two minute walk to shops, library, station etc.

In fact, it's all been a bit of a disaster. The moving process itself made her incredibly stressed (if it hadn't been for dad, she'd have never gone through with it). The new environment made her cognitive decline instantly worse. She says constantly that she hates the new house, and she has now completely forgotten all the reasons she wanted to leave the old house, so she views it through huge rose-tinted spectacles. Her cognition and physical frailty have increased rapidly so that she now can't walk even the two minutes to all the amenities, and she has no interest/ability to use them anyway. She sits all day in a stupor of anxiety and depression, blaming the house move for her worsening state, and blaming my DF and us for making her move

To be honest, I'm not sure the move was worth it. She was anxious, depressed and confused before the move - but she's even more anxious, depressed and confused now - and sometimes very bitter with it. In theory there are still lots of practical advantages to the move - but I wonder now whether they actually outweigh the benefit of her staying in her familiar old home, perhaps with carers when they became necessary.

Perhaps the main thing I've realised is that, in DMs situation, there were simply no good options - the decline is happening, and there are only different kinds of 'bad' these days - barring some kind of miracle, I've pretty much resigned myself to the fact that we're never going to reobtain any lasting 'good'. I'm sorry that that's such an incredibly depressing thought, but it's actually been helpful for me to adjust my mindset to aceept that everything with mum is just terminally shit, and that there is no theoretical happy solution that I might be able to find if only I were doing a better job - in reality, it doesn't exist and we have to just cope with the situation as best we can.

@asknotwhat great post and very much resonates with our situation. It simply is not possible to ‘fix’ things for some people.

I have also had other threads on Elderly Parents - looking at what the person was like ‘before’ the cognitive decline. It might not be relevant in your case but in our case our mother has always been ‘difficult’. Nothing ever right, always always knew better. Sadly our DF enabled her silly behaviour, we all sort of laughed at it, for example when we were young - 40 odd years ago, she dictated what days it was appropriate to go out with boyfriends/girlfriends. Literally dictated. All about control, control, control.

Sorry another little rant there - my point I guess is you cannot change the personality. You most certainly cannot medicate ‘difficult’ personalities.

Apologies but our experience was pretty much exactly @asknotwhat 's. DM did move eventually, with the process taking about 18 months of appalling stress, and she loathed the new place from day 1. With some justification it has to be said, those developments are even more ruthlessly focused on profit than most housing developments. Dm is deeply antisocial but we underestimated the value of familiar routines, surroundings etc even if the only familiar person she really saw was the local shopkeeper. Anyway, eventually she was going to move again, we had another six months post covid of stress that was even worse, then she had a stroke and is now in a nursing home. The only silver lining, and it's a big one, is that at least the post stroke phase has been closer to us than the 2.5 hour drive we used to have.

I do know that those moves work for some people so you still might be right overall. I just don't think it will ever be easy.

The elephant in the room is that with a combination of big pharmaceutical companies developing medicines to cover all sorts people who would simply have declined and died 30 years ago are being kept alive - sorry if that is the wrong wording. Medicating a difficult person like our mother is not actually working. For me our mother would have been diagnosed as bi polar/manic depressed in her younger years but our Dad kept things under wraps. Spent a fortune on ‘making your mother happy’ etc etc.

My point I suppose is all you lovely people along with many others are trying desperately to ‘make them happy’ whilst also trying to have some quality of life ourselves. The reality is nothing will ever be right for some people but they feed off the drama and attention.

Keep strong. We are all absolutely brilliant but probably broken middle aged people because of stubborn difficult parents.

This. Any move is highly likely to exacerbate any signs of dementia. Familiarity is so important - people can be thrown simply by the loo in a different place, taps turning a different way, etc.

Those people who are sure they won’t be like that when they are old, don’t be so sure.

DM and DF are very elderly “we won’t be a burden “, when DM visited elderly neighbour getting 4 x daily free care visits as bed bound “don’t know why the DS doesn’t put her in a home.Just stick us in a home when we need it. We won’t be a burden “. Cue a few months ago, DM has had a fall, worried about DFs ability to remember to take his daily insulin, tells me constantly when I visited - an hour away, full time job - how worried she was about him.I suggest they get some paid for care daily to help with cooking and shopping “No we can manage “, well yes with bi weekly visits from me and splitting with DH, work have agreed to a short term compressed working pattern which means longer days 4 days a week for me, but at least I can protect some of my weekend.They grudgingly agreed to a cleaner 2 hours a week, but will not let me increase her hours despite me saying it would be a huge weight off my mind and she could change the sheets and do some much needed dusting.

Unfortunately the human will to survive when it comes down to it, trumps everything else. My DPs are not bad people, but ultimately their desire to keep things as they are with bare minimum of paid for support will rule, until DF no longer is deemed to have capacity.

I think with your MiL the upheaval of a move is simply too much for her to contemplate, even though in her functioning part of her brain she knows it’s the right thing for her DS and her family. I suspect she will have to move from a retirement complex to a care home quickly, so for now if she isn’t resistant to having care in then keep that up and try to get them to do some of the DH tasks like sorting out the phone memory. If she has lots of funds perhaps she could pay for Airbnb nearby when you come to visit. Ultimately though I would be looking at care homes near you, I should probably be doing that as well.

I think the age for moving is much earlier than people think. There not being good appropriate housing stock does not help. Lots of the bungalows near me have been converted so not bungalows anymore.
I think at the point you have health issues it’s too late. My friends mum and dad were moving because of his dad’s health. His dad actually died during the process (they were in temporary accommodation) and his mum said if she had waited till after she wouldn’t have done it, but it was the best thing for her.

My neighbour is wanting to downsize as she is alone in a 3 bed with big garden. Her house has been on the market for 6 weeks and hasn’t sold so she’s taken it off (she’s very very impatient) I feel like if she doesn’t do it this summer, she’ll get stuck there as she looks very old all of a sudden.