I feel so sad that my elderly mum's best friend has abandoned her in her hour of need.

[TuesdaysgreyandWednesdaytoo]

My lovely kind mum has been suffering with Alzheimer's for the last 6 years. As is with this wicked disease she is getting worse but still remembers us all and listens to our conversations, she will try her best to join in and does well although sometimes her replies can be a little nonsensical but she really does try her best.

Mum is 81 and although she has no siblings as she is an only child she has a best friend (I will call her Joan). Joan and mum have been friends since the age of 5. They grew up together and although Joan married at a young age mum got on well with them both and when my dad came along a few years later the four became firm friends. We would spend weekends with them and their children and when we all grew up they would still see each other most weekends and holiday together.

Tbh, my sister and I have never quite warmed to Joan, in our opinion she has always bossed mum around, is very opinionated and domineering but mum has always liked her and that is all that mattered.

However, since mum's disease has set in, Joan and her husband have appeared to have distanced themselves from mum and dad. She calls once a week but always makes excuses when dad suggests they come over or they meet at a local cafe etc. I totally understand that dementia is a scary disease and non of us want to watch a loved one deteriorate from such an evil illness but what upsets my dad the most is the way Joan seems to relish in telling my dad all about a new couple they have become friends with and then proceeds to tell my dad about all the new places they visit with this new couple. It is really upsetting my poor dad and he feels she is punishing them both for mum developing dementia!

It is obvious that Joan does not want to see mum anymore and on the few occasions they have popped round she doesn't even talk to mum (I was there the last time and it seemed as though she could barely set eyes on my poor lovely mum, it boiled my blood tbh).

I don't know what I expect from wiring this down but life is so bloody hard dealing with a parent with dementia and then watching the healthy one go downhill too because of the stress of it all and friends then jumping ship from this hell hole really stings. I am in my 50's and I have been with my bf since we were 5, I just could not imagine abandoning her when she needs me the most.

Thank you.
Sadly, I think you may be right. I totally understand how frightening the disease is and so many older people seem to have some form of dementia these days (it is the UK's biggest killer). It must strike fear in many, I know it does me and I am only 51. I would still like to think if my bf was terminally ill I would continue to pop in an see her from time to time, no matter how tough I found it.

Surely, sometimes we have to put own own fears to one side to give a fellow human being a bit of comfort but sadly going by many of the replies on here it seems many humans will turn away from a friend the moment the wheels fall of the wagon. I genuinely feel very sorry for people who have no family, it's a dark future for them without the love and kindness from family and friends.

My suggestions, do these help ?

When Joan phones up
Put the phone onto loud speaker so that everyone in the room can hear the conversation

Joan is still communicating with your family, which I see as a positive. Could you speak to someone on the phone for 30mins or an hour every week ?
She needs to have something to talk about

Secondly,
I believe that Age Uk or similar have a befriending scheme. I believe this involves people having a phone conversation at a set time per week. Could you investigate this for your parents, your DDad may like someone to talk to if he is unable get out much.

I do not believe that Joan feels that she has abandoned your family.

Because Joan still takes time to phone

It is sad that your mother's friend can't make more of an effort, or at least resist blabbering on about her new friends.

But two things come to mind. Firstly, as a student I worked in a psychogeriatric home, with patients much like your mother. They were visited by relatives, but almost never by friends, and I take from this that social ties break with dementia whereas family ties persist (whether through love or duty).

Secondly, my parents are in their seventies and although they are wonderful people, they have seen SO MANY of their contemporaries die or become incapacitated. Their choice is basically to go into a decline and waste their remaining years mourning and visiting ill people, or to live their lives without entering greatly into all the deaths and strokes and cancer and dementia. It will be coming their way soon enough. I was a bit shocked this year when someone we know died at a young age (+40s) and although my parents were of course sad, it didn't hit them the way it hit me, because they are so used to funerals. I would guess Joan and her husband may be in that mindset too.

OP, I'm speaking to you as someone who has cared for someone in this situation, both as a carer and friend, and I have quite a different take than most on this thread. I'm going to share it and if it is not useful, dismiss it, but I do feel like there's a different way of viewing what's going on here.

First, Joan has not abandoned your mum. She's phoned every week for 6 years! Presumably, your mum can't chat to her on the phone herself, so she's chatting with your dad who was not her close friend. That speaks to Joan's investment with your mum and your family. I agree with the poster that said put her on speakerphone.

She's also visited several times. Now your dad and you don't like Joan terribly much and find her too bossy etc, and you don't like that she didn't chat with your mum or make enough eye contact. As someone who visits an old friend with similar neurological issues, I can tell you it is very hard work trying to think of things to say to someone who can't speak much or give much back. I love to see my friend, but I only visit about once every six months as I have a family, work and so on, and in truth, I can't think of anything much to say. I talk at her more or less, but I'm not sure that that's doing much for her, if I'm honest. When Joan comes, you don't like that she isn't great with people with dementia, and she might be very aware of this, and feel nervous or even distressed herself by these visits.

Friendships are odd things, and usually based on reciprocity, so showing interest, asking questions, sharing memories, and Joan was friends with your mum, not you, and not your dad even though you were around, they were the core of this friendship. That is now gone for Joan and she may feel quite lost and upset as well, just as you and your Dad do.

It's very different being a family member involved in someone's daily life, you get a way of involving the person, I've done this too. You get used to chatting about making the tea, what's on telly and so on and you get used to involving them, in a way that is very very hard to do for a one-off visit.

Finally, Joan is presumably around 81 years old herself, so her not offering to take your mum out seems reasonable to me.

The people at the daycare centre love and value your mum, but they are also paid and trained in how to involve and deal with people who are less verbal, confused and so on. You are valuable to your mum. Joan can't be what you want her to be now, but I think that's asking a huge amount of a friendship. Even if she could come and sit with her and hold her hand and chat away, that's a special type of a skill and a daily life type of a thing that probably isn't how their friendship used to be.

I think you are very cross because you want to see your mum as 'there' and her old life still around her- but it may be she isn't that fussed herself about that old life and having kind new daycare friends and some support for yourself and your lovely Dad is the way forward. I found my person with dementia liked the new people better in many ways, because they accept them how they are now, and aren't essentially grieving for the lost life and friendship they had- many friends would visit and then cry afterwards, and that's not helpful to the person necessarily.

I'm not suggesting you do anything much except have a little compassion for Joan, seeing she's given what she can as an ordinary human.

Don't be ridiculous. The OP's mum is upset and she tells her daughter that 'Joan doesn't care about me any more'. Her father is upset that they rub their social life with their new friends in his face. OP is upset because her parents are upset.

I would have thought that anyone posting on the Elderly Parents board would have a little sensitivity when responding to an OP in a difficult situation. You have the same tone on here as you do on AIBU.

All the OP is asking for is that Joan could spend an hour once a week chatting with her friend of 80years about old times. What's an hour once a week ? The OP is not asking Joan to run errands or cook and clean . Even once a month would be something.

^ this!!!

What is it with this site these days? It seems full of complete weirdos, projecting their own nonsense.

Don't be ridiculous. The OP's mum is upset and she tells her daughter that 'Joan doesn't care about me any more'. Her father is upset that they rub their social life with their new friends in his face. OP is upset because her parents are upset

The OP isn't helping here- how is an 81 year old woman talking about her life on the phone for the last 6 years about what she does 'rubbing their face in it', what's she supposed to talk about with the husband of her friend and a friend who isn't able to say very much?

She might be replying to the question 'what did you get up to last week?' Is she supposed to say 'nothing'?

Think about it this way- is it likely Joan has been calling weekly for 6 years to 'rub their face' in it, or to keep in contact?

I think it's easier to think of Joan as struggling herself, she's an older lady, she probably has been through all kinds herself (e.g. illnesses, death, who knows she might have cancer herself, anything) which she hasn't talked about when she phones up because they don't have that type of relationship any more. She's continuing contact- it isn't helping and the OP's mum is distressed as she's lost her old life.

Perpetuating the myth that if Joan just came around more and sat for an hour every week that mum wouldn't be sad, distressed or struggle with her new life is a bit of a myth here.

Joan can't be the solution. Old friends rarely are in these type of situations, because they can be upsetting for the person with dementia and the friend to both realise what they have lost and what won't be the same again.

Making a different life, with new people around the mum, with Joan there occasionally if that's ok with Joan (as it is very distressing visiting old friends who aren't essentially the same friend any more, and she is older and elderly herself) is a better way to do things. The daycentre, and drop-ins, and social activities for people on a similar path can be easier- not just for Joan, but for the mum.

All the anger here is on Joan and that's not particularly fair, no-one even liked her that much!

Hi OP
you have my sympathy as we have similar with my dad - he used to be so close to his sister, would go round to see her every week without fail.
Covid stopped that and on the other side his dementia was too bad for him to make the bus journey. She never came to see him.
He is in a home now and she does visit him there - partly, I think so she can be seen as a "good sister". Church going too but it's all for the optics. Once a month for half an hour, tops.

I bring my dad to my house on Sundays for a roast dinner and to see my DC (one is ASD and struggles going to the home). My MIL was there too a couple of weeks ago. She knows my dad pretty well but hasn't seen him for a while.

She had an extreme reaction to seeing him. He has clearly deteriorated a lot since she last saw him. She is a lovely person and made a huge effort with him even though it is hard work having conversations with him.

Afterwards we spoke about it and she said she finds it hard because they are the same age - it reminds her that she is old and can easily end up the same. If you like it is a reminder of her own mortality and makes her feel depressed.

Not excusing Joan at all, a good friend would just suck it up - my MIL actually said she should make more of an effort to come when he is here as she can see how hard it is for me and wants to support me.

I have weeks where I really don't want to go see my dad in his home. It's horrible. I feel guilty that I couldn't keep him safe at home. I go, of course I do, but mainly out of guilt. The selfish part of me would stay the hell away.

My dad has no idea about anything anymore. I visit twice a week for two short (half a hour) visits and he comes to my house for a couple of hours most Sundays. It is all my energy can muster.

So, I do have some sympathy but even if they can't cope with your mum anymore they should reach out to your poor dad.

Thanks everyone and just to clarify and clear up any confusion for those who haven't fully understood my replies (and a big thank you to those of you who have).

Up until around 6 months ago Joan and her husband would meet up regularly with my parents, they would either come to mum and dad's for a few hours, m&d to their home or they would go out for something to eat, either a local cafe, tearoom or a garden centre.

This gradually stopped around 6 months ago and Joan now rings maybe once a week or my dad will ring Joan (they take it in turns). Some say she may not like talking to my dad or feels awkward to do so. We are talking about a man she has known very well for 50+ years, has seen every week during most those years, has holidayed with etc, this is not a casual friendship. My dad does not have dementia, my dad is a chatter box and will talk to anyone, conversing with my dad is not the problem here.

I certainly am not saying that Joan is an utter bitch, I understand this may be difficult for her and she is 81 herself and has all the same fears that we all have. I certainly do not hate her, if you know me then you will know that goes against my nature but hey, if some of you want to twist my few words and come to the warped conclusion that I despise Joan then that probably says a little more about you than it does me.

However, I do feel that it is hurtful for her to constantly tell my dad about all the places they have ventured out with the new friends especially as most of the places they frequent are all the places they used to go with m&d,. Dad has often suggested they meet at these places but Joan now often comes up with excuses.
We (Dad, my sister and I) all believe Joan is embarrassed to be around my mum, remember that we have known this woman for decades, we know her. I also feel that it surely can not be too taxing to meet up with my mum and dad just once a month or so? My mum knows who she is, values her friendship and knows that Joan does not come round anymore and it does upset her.

I feel some of you may not fully understand the complexities of dementia, it is a progressive disease with some people living many, many years before the disease fully takes that person with tiny little slivers of them taken away bit by bit, very slowly over a long period of time. My mum will eventually lose her memory and all of her faculties but atm she can talk to you, smile and have a laugh, she is not laying in bed, soiling herself and unable to communicate. Sadly, that day will hit us and I would never, ever expect anyone to visit my mum in that state. My mum was a vibrant and beautiful woman, she wouldn't want that anyhow.

I take on board all the replies and we will have to expect that mum and Joan's relationship is no longer as it was. I understand that Joan may have her reasons and we will have to respect her wishes that she no longer wants to see my mum, her longest friendship.

I will except that a once a week phone call is enough (although she never, ever asks about my mum) and that will be that.

As a person who has a natural caring personality I find Joan's reaction quite callous and going by some replies on here it looks as though many of you are in full agreement with Joan's actions and frankly I find that quite scary as I head into older age and do cling on to the hope my best friend is a bigger person than this (but I already know that she is).

That's very interesting to know about, and does rather shine a bit of a light on what's happening or perhaps not.

It sounds like since your mum has been diagnosed six years ago, Joan was mostly a good friend, but she doesn't want to continue with the going out side of things with your mum and that is sad.

I wouldn't personally want to call someone's husband, however brilliant they might have been as a group, I can't think of one husband that I could have a sustained conversation with over the long term, it is hard when you are the partner in this situation, as they are not the core of the friendship, however much they might have hung out in the past. My husband's old friends don't call me and I wouldn't expect them to.

It is a shame she doesn't want to hang out at the garden centre, perhaps it is simply too upsetting seeing her very good friend decline. I am not going to justify that. It is hard though, I've visited two friends in a terminal decline over the years and I have to be honest, it was very difficult. I did it anyway, but over time things were not quite the same and maintaining a conversation is a massive struggle. I've also cared for someone in the family with a similar decline, and visits from friends declined over time, from frequent to infrequent, and that was partly as the person themselves struggled with these visits, they didn't like to say no but found being 'well' enough and trying to listen and be the old friend hard themselves.

She may be an awful person, but she's given your mum 50 years of good friendship and calls most weeks, and I think you may not ever get to the bottom of why she doesn't want to meet up (apart from her own and husband's old age, illnesses etc, this other couple may be taking them out, who knows?) It is awful but I wouldn't expect friends to be taking me out once a month especially, in fact, I wouldn't want them to see me at all in such a decline, but these things are very personal.

I'm not in full agreement with Joan's actions, I think they are understandable and human and you may not know what's going on with her either.

I'm not in full agreement with Joan's actions, I think they are understandable and human and you may not know what's going on with her either.

Well said.

As I said before, Joan is one of those fair weather friends in life. There is a lot of hints from your first posts that she was one of those. We all have them. I feel really bad for your mum. Some people are self centred arseholes who drop others like a hot potato as soon as they stop being of use. Joan wants a perfect couple to holiday and have fun with and now they don’t fit that narrative she can’t be bothered. My mum had it with a couple friendship, when the couple came into inheritance she was dropped for a fancier friendship.

If you both have the technology you could do a weekly WhatsApp video call together, so they could see one another ?

Joan has not dropped her friend like a hot potato

It is very sad Tuesday.

My mother lost a very longstanding friend (mum friends who met when they were first pregnant). It wasn't dementia in that case but certainly mum was a little less cheerful in her 80s, a bit less likely to talk constantly about the other person and to actuallyneed a bit if cheering up herself. For whatever reason my mum's friend just stopped calling her.

I don't miss the slightly grating presence of my mum's friend but it certainly made me think that friendships can be a lot more transactional than we like to think.

No, she’s been bloody marvellous hasn’t she? Doesn’t even talk to her.

We've sort of had the same issue with MIL's childhood friend, bridesmaid etc. . MIL is in a care home with dementia but before this she was constantly calling her friend at all hours in a state, completely confused, delusional and aggressive etc. She was threatening to go on the train to her house to go and live with her leaving FIL behind. It all got a bit much for MIL's friend and she has distanced herself a little which I completely understand. MIL no longer has a phone as she was calling everyone at all hours in a state asking for help and also constantly breaking and losing it so we just do a weekly facetime at an agreed time with the friend. I don't find her actions callous but a protection against further upset I would say. Sometimes there is no sense to be had or conversation which is difficult for all parties to endure.

She’s 81 and she still has a phone call with her old friend’s DH once a week to check in.

Joan (and her DH) are probably slowing down themselves.

It isn’t clear why Joan isn’t speaking directly to OP’s mum but OP’s dad is the one holding the phone - is he actually saying “I’ll put you on speaker with Edith” and Joan is refusing that?