Appalling behaviour-dressed up as old age-it has to be addressed

[BlueLegume]

Hi all, having followed and contributed to several threads on ‘Elderly Parents’ I want to thank so many of you for helping me look at my/our situation. I won’t name check you just yet but you know who you are. This thread is not to be unpleasant about the elderly who are having a hard time. It is to address a very honest point that my parents have always been difficult. Impossible to discuss anything important with, always known better and having watched them alienate good decent people I am angry that they made no effort in life to do anything other than fun stuff for themselves and now expect me and my siblings to pick up their mess. It seems so many middle aged people have fallen foul of these ‘war babies’ as my mother still refers to her and Dad. Yes I accept they were born at the end of the war and they will have had to live in a post war country. For our mother that is all she talks about. She doesn’t accept they had the boom years post war which she has photo evidence of living it large in the 50s and 60s. She was an incredibly authoritarian mother yet after a few drinks would party all night. Always a case of do as I say not as I do. Now as I approach 60 I am wracked with worry and anxiety because she now ‘can’t cope’. It’s ruining life . I have all the therapy theories and have shared much of it. That said I am mad at the fact I am still dictated to or it feels so by her. Father is in a nursing home after a lot of denial that was what he needed. She will not have any help in the house so it is all falling to us. We are broken. My own family are fed up and rightly so. Selfish as it sounds I did not retire to look after a very unpleasant woman who has never liked me. I appreciate that sounds very bitter.

@HoraceGoesBonkers you have my sympathies it is very difficult, I am Uber low contact with my parents but I have faced the same issues with my now uni aged kids. I'm guessing yours are younger.

When mine were younger I never let them have sleepovers or alone time with the GP. In part due to their house being an utter fire hazard with no smoke alarms. That was ok. Now they are older she has direct access to them via their phones. Kids are wiser than we think. They don't answer her video calls and have blocked her on FB. They know the GP are problematic but are warm/laugh about it.

The presents remain consistently shit and they only want soundbites to boast about.

I let the presents come and the kids did thankyou notes. The presents were swiftly forgotten and recycled as they were always wrong aged, wrong size etc.

It is very difficult and I agree with @BlueLegume about husbands often wanting the easy option

Ps I've just got rid of my landline, only have my mobile phone, M doesn't know the number. She can only access me via email.

Highly recommended after years of duty phonecalls with her strange phone voice x

I have blocked my mother on my landline and from her landline to my mobile. She can’t make calls on her mobile as she’s hopeless with her mobile phone so that effectively leaves WhatsApp. I can block her that too when she annoys me. If she does manage to make a call on WhatsApp she has a special ringtone so I know it’s her .

I’ve just fallen out with mine as she sent me a message for someone else discussing me and a disagreement that we had had involving my sister. She outright lied to me and said she would never do that. I just can’t trust her at all. She loves to be the fount of all knowledge to everyone and sees herself as the popular person who is the lynchpin of the wider family.

I keep saying it, but it still continues to stun me how shockingly similar these people are! What you are all describing, I can give almost word for word examples of exactly the same. You could be describing my mother as if you had lived with her. I feel very conscious in coming across in my posts like I’m trying to ‘trump’ all your experiences, but the comparisons are actually quite unnervingly familiar.

I grew up thinking my mother was totally unique. Her thought processes and pattern of behaviour were so off the wall, it would literally take weeks to explain to a third party the manipulations and game playing - and I’m not even sure they would believe me then. That what outsiders see is a carefully stage managed projected image that she had created. I’m torn between finding so much reassurance on here that she wasn’t so unique after all and genuinely sad about the damage these people wreak.

I know you shouldn’t diagnose someone else without professional advice, but she certainly strongly ticked every box here for NPD.

1. Grandiosity and Need for Admiration – Narcissists often have an inflated sense of self-importance. They believe they are superior and expect others to recognize their greatness. This grandiosity is coupled with a constant need for admiration and validation.
2. Lack of Empathy – Individuals with narcissism struggle to understand or share the feelings of others. This lack of empathy often leads to insensitive behaviors. They may disregard the feelings and needs of others, focusing solely on their own desires.
3. Sense of Entitlement – Narcissists often feel entitled to special treatment. They expect others to cater to their needs without reciprocation. This sense of entitlement can lead to unreasonable demands and expectations.
4. Exploitative Relationships – Narcissism is known to exploit relationships for the individual’s own gain. These individuals may use others to achieve their goals without considering the impact on the other person. This exploitation often leaves their partners, friends, or family feeling used and undervalued.
5. Envy and Belief in Others’ Envy – People with narcissism often feel envious of others’ achievements. Simultaneously, they believe others are envious of them. This belief reinforces their sense of superiority and entitlement.
6. Arrogant Behaviors – Arrogance is a common trait among narcissists. They often display haughty behaviors, believing they are superior to others. This arrogance can manifest as dismissive attitudes, boastfulness, and a lack of respect for others.
7. Monopolizing Conversations – Dominating conversations is also a key trait of narcissism. They often talk about themselves and their achievements, disregarding others’ input. This monopolizing behavior can make others feel unheard and unimportant.
8. Belittling Others – Narcissists often belittle others to elevate themselves. They may criticize, mock, or dismiss others’ achievements and feelings. This belittling behavior is a way for narcissists to assert their perceived superiority.
9. Vulnerability and Insecurity – Despite their outward confidence, narcissism is defined by harboring deep-seated insecurities. They may react strongly to criticism and have a fear of not being admired or loved. These vulnerabilities can lead to defensive behaviors and further manipulation.
10. Difficulty in Long-Term Relationships – Struggling to maintain long-term relationships is another key trait. Their lack of empathy and exploitative behaviors can lead to conflict and dissatisfaction. Over time, their partners may feel emotionally drained and unappreciated.
11. Narcissistic Supply – Narcissists thrive on what is known as “narcissistic supply”. This refers to the attention, admiration, and validation they seek from others. They often go to great lengths to secure this supply, even at the expense of others’ well-being.
12. Gaslighting and Manipulation – Knowing how to navigate people with manipulation is key to narcissism. They may use tactics like gaslighting, where they manipulate others into doubting their own perceptions. This manipulation allows them to maintain control and avoid accountability for their actions.

My husband hasn't opened the message, or replied. I think my son as opened his, but not replied.

Mine used to get bizarrely enraged about a woman in church she was jealous of. One of the reasons was that this other woman polished her door knocker too much. I mean I wouldn't even notice!

@AttilaTheMeerkat great post and yes most of us know our mothers are narcissistic BUT without a diagnosis we post with caution because it would open us up to criticism from other MN posters labelling us as unpleasant. That post of yours is spot on. When a narcissist becomes unable to control things it turns nasty which is where I am and @JohnPrescottsPyjamas and @HoraceGoesBonkers

We are keeping each other sane post by post on here whilst trying to manage and navigate a tricky time of life and as lifelong people pleasers we are used to the goal posts moving.

@JohnPrescottsPyjamas that is a really helpful list, I am nodding and ticking them off.

I am the same, I had read lots of books about problematic mothers but until this thread I didn't realise that the behaviours are absolutely identical. It is as if they follow a manual word for word. I too only thought it was my mother like this. Definitely don't think you are trying to trump anyone, sadly just realising another poor woman damaged by her mother xx

Good gatekeeping @AskingQuestions45. Mine hasn't discovered WhatsApp yet thankfully xxI can steel myself to read her drunk emails when I feel strong enough, not caught out unawares and upset xx

I do also think we are possibly all of a similar vintage so we are cautious that we don’t want to just ‘label’ everything. I still tell the story of the kid I went to primary school with who used to literally eat the bricks corners at school. The dinner ladies/lunchtime assistants just ignored him. He runs a multi national company from the British Virgin Islands. He came from a council estate. Nowadays I worry he would have been given a label and put in a unit to keep him in his lane so to speak.

He does key note lectures.

Recommend this now we have said the NPD out loud https://www.worldofbooks.com/en-gb/products/will-i-ever-be-good-enough-book-karyl-mcbride-phd-9781439129432?sku=GOR004480021&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAADZzAICMvDlCc-1q57OLajFWLdIUL&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI6Yimkrz6iQMVF49QBh15hDH4EAQYASABEgKfsvD_BwE

Listened to my mum for 28 minutes earlier.
She's definitely divide and rule. Huge stress and effort involved in Christmas letters. Body of text plus top and tail, I will apparently not be getting one. Suspect I would not recognise myself in it.
It has made me hold back from contact with cousins because her portrayal of me has switched from ungrateful teenager, married well, too good for the likes of us then neglected but bravely battles on.
I actually draw comfort from this thread, I suspect at least one branch had a similar toxic dynamic behind the summer parties and Xmas buffets. We're not the only ones.

Most narcissistic people never see the inside of a therapist’s office because they think there’s nothing wrong with them. This is why they do not do well in therapy. They would need years of therapy in any case.

@AttilaTheMeerkat yeah . We know.We try to be decent people and help them. Get where you are coming from but it’s exhausting being in it.

A very astute and accurate observation - thank you.

I tried to encourage my mother to get some help because I genuinely believed deep down that she was a very unhappy woman and in some ways was a victim herself. She got very angry with me, reacted badly, became extremely defensive and told me I was the one with the problems and that I was the one who was ‘mad’

There is no helping a narcissist, the only thing you can do is help your own self by not having anything to do with them. Do read Will I ever be good enough by KarylMcBride,

@Septoctwed Is that like a round robin letter your mum writes with family updates.

I can't imagine what mine would write. @Lexy70 continues in her lifelong quest to be difficult, emotional and oversensitive despite being 53

Mine once sent me a post Xmas 'thank you for hosting me' letter but here's how you have been awful three years earlier and how you should change your ways. It's two sides of A4 so there's lots of waffle about love and compassion uniting the generations. A request for public markers of connection, very keen on multiple birthday cards. And a warning that it's not too late to mend my ways!
I reread it every now and then when I start to wonder how we got here.
It was perfectly timed by her to cause maximum distress with a work project. COVID following shifted us into a socially acceptable lowish contact.
I'm really proud of how I mostly deal with it all but am obviously not at peace otherwise I wouldn't be checking in on this thread.

@Septoctwed that is bloody brutal, sheer and utter nastiness. What an awful woman. Imagine being so so cruel as to deliberately attack and damage your daughter. Also to calmly write it out, not just a loss of verbal temper.
That really is another scale of vileness, poor you.

Yes to the public markers, told us exactly the wording she wanted for her wedding anniversary note in the local paper. FFS stupid people.

Thats so unhinged about the letters!

Mine loves a note or letter after an event - it'd generally not negative but it's a way of keeping the spotlight. There were a couple of notes and lost items after her last big birthday party and I think was texting her to acknowledge them while internally rolling my eyes. They didn't need to be posted individually, I'd just spent a whole weekend on her birthday and I most definitely did not to write back like i was meant to because then I'd end up in a ludicrous situation of thank you notes for thank you notes for thank you notes...

I did quite often get told "families should support each other" which is not so subtle code for "you must do what I say".

Do you think if we got them together they would get on initially and write thank you notes for several weeks then have bonkers feuds about perceived social hierarchies?

Ugh yes, the passive aggressive thank you notes!

It's like they're all following an instruction manual, isn't it?!

Awful, awful, awful. How cold and calculated.

i do suspect it is the very nature of these personalities to enjoy throwing a metaphorical hand grenade into others lives and standing back with a sick satisfaction to admire the emotional damage they have caused.

And that is my issue (I'm NC with my parents, but getting a lot of the "but they are elderly, how can you abandon them type comments).

The thing I need them to do to enable a reconciliation is for them to have the ability to self reflect on their behaviour, see how it has affected me and sincerely apologise.
However, I'm in a catch 22 because they aren't able to do this, and they don't see that there is anything wrong with them so they won't seek professional help.

So essentially, I've accepted we will not reconcile. Which clearly makes me that bad one, but hey, being the bad person who's abandoned my poor sweet elderly parents is actually better than a lot of the stuff my parents throw at me :)

Oh God yes. My mother trots out the love and compassion crap all the time. It’s just empty rhetoric. I wonder how she can’t really believe it herself.

I live in a country with a severe housing shortage and crisis. I live at home. I help at home but it was never good enough. I always got the impression she just hates me. She loves all my brothers though.

This morning and it wasn't the first time there was no conversation from her. She was just watching TV that she has no interest in nearly making me feel insignificant but if I was a man she would be full of conversation. She doesn't even ask me how I am or how I slept.

She does want me to keep Saturday free to help her shop. She said that much a few days ago. But now it's back to now conversation from her.

She's nothing more but a fucking old pig. That's all she is. Our country faces so many problems and all she is concerned about is a local bus shelter. She has no caring or understanding of anything wider than herself.

@Canjo poor you it is really nasty for her to ignore you like that. I think if she's refusing to speak to you, you should refuse to take her shopping.

Cause and effect. She can't treat you that way and expect you to help.

Solidarity xx