Appalling behaviour-dressed up as old age-it has to be addressed

[BlueLegume]

Hi all, having followed and contributed to several threads on ‘Elderly Parents’ I want to thank so many of you for helping me look at my/our situation. I won’t name check you just yet but you know who you are. This thread is not to be unpleasant about the elderly who are having a hard time. It is to address a very honest point that my parents have always been difficult. Impossible to discuss anything important with, always known better and having watched them alienate good decent people I am angry that they made no effort in life to do anything other than fun stuff for themselves and now expect me and my siblings to pick up their mess. It seems so many middle aged people have fallen foul of these ‘war babies’ as my mother still refers to her and Dad. Yes I accept they were born at the end of the war and they will have had to live in a post war country. For our mother that is all she talks about. She doesn’t accept they had the boom years post war which she has photo evidence of living it large in the 50s and 60s. She was an incredibly authoritarian mother yet after a few drinks would party all night. Always a case of do as I say not as I do. Now as I approach 60 I am wracked with worry and anxiety because she now ‘can’t cope’. It’s ruining life . I have all the therapy theories and have shared much of it. That said I am mad at the fact I am still dictated to or it feels so by her. Father is in a nursing home after a lot of denial that was what he needed. She will not have any help in the house so it is all falling to us. We are broken. My own family are fed up and rightly so. Selfish as it sounds I did not retire to look after a very unpleasant woman who has never liked me. I appreciate that sounds very bitter.

@Canjo You can’t force your mother to respect you, but you can refuse to be disrespected.

She sounds awful and you deserve so much better than this. Sending strength to you. Xx

I'm so utterly depressed. I work hard but there is a serious housing crisis where I am. Nobody understands here in this group. It's my childhood bedroom or a bridge.

I never took advantage of living at home and I always helped but my mother treats me appalling. She had more love and respect for a brother who was a deadbeat and likely on drugs than she had for me who worked and helped at home. The thing is she hid her behaviour a lot of the time from people outside of the family but she did have some contempt for her own siblings. She never respected them and one by one they all backed off from her. She has noone now. She has no other family or no friends and I am the only person around her.

I last year I had to put a lock on my bedroom door because eshe was going into my room to snoop and root and take.

I found this morning that she was in my room yet again. She's now targeting my room when I have cooking breakfast or when I am in there shower.

Whilst you are living in the same house, she needs very, very strong and clear boundaries. It sounds like you definitely need that lock back on your bedroom door as soon as possible.

You might have to share your living space, but you also need your own sanctuary and private place. She has absolutely no right to intrude on your privacy, whatever her reasoning. You are an adult and she can only get away with what you let her get away with. If you say stop, it stops. Remember, she is clearly dependent on you for shopping etc. YOU have more control and power than you think you do. If you withdrew your support, she would be powerless - and she knows it, but tries to manipulate you into feeling guilty and obliged to help.

There clearly a reason she has no friends and her family have all backed off. Hold the thought that deep down she’s probably pretty scared that you will eventually leave too so she’s trying to make you less confident. I’m pretty certain, one day you’ll look at her - as I did with my mother - and think, “You’re actually a pathetic old woman and I cannot believe I spent many years living in fear of your irrational moods and behaviour and trying to live up to some completely unrealistic expectation you had of me. Your whole life has been wasted trying to control, create and project some kind of false image and version just to impress others. You have missed out on so much happiness, but you’ll no longer ruin mine”
xxx

Wow. This thread really scares me. It has affirmed what I have been worrying about for a while....

That my very difficult (currently mid 70s and fit/healthy) mother is going to be an even bigger pain in the arse when she gets into her 80s

I'm going through some really difficult life stuff at the moment and was speaking to her on the phone about it and could tell after about 5 mins she's getting irate. Not sure why she seems to get angry when I'm upset about something? Anyway I ended up apologising!

This thread is very sobering. Why are so many of our parents like this?!

That Olivia Rodrigo song "vampire" is the song of the moment for me...

@redskydarknight I'm kind of in the same place. I'm feeling a bit bad about Christmas but then that isn't a new thing, and at least I'm not feeling bad about it while being obliged to traipse up and down the road or otherwise having to tolerate some really shit behaviour.

Did anyone else's love really stupid parlour type games/speeches/getting people to do "a turn" at parties? I mean I love a good board game, don't get me wrong. But a lot of my mother's soirees involved trying to force people to sing or recite poetry or otherwise do something really cringe.

Mine always desperately wanted to do things like that as a performance but couldn't grasp that refusing to ever play board games with children as a small family and similar antics meant we found it totally bemusing when she attempted to pretend we were a family that spent time playing jolly games together.

Last year she wanted to have a big lunch for my Dad who doesn't have a scoobie what's going on; can't walk, doubly incontinent, can't see, can't speak, might be able to hear but often starts crying if he's not asleep. I'd accepted out of a grim sense of duty as I'd avoided doing joint visits as they were becoming really high pressure, but I thought I'd suck it up this one time.

I was really, really dreading the whole thing and feeling sick with anxiety; Dad visits are stressful anyway and she had considerable form for making them worse.

A few days beforehand she announced half of the family were to make speeches and toasts at this. Nobody else wanted to do it and a couple of my teenage relatives were meant to be making a farewell speech (to someone who has nearly died quite a few times - it was clearly designed to be a big emotional moment).

She'd also done a seating plan for this too. I don't know but I strongly suspect it was about separating me from my kids, who are the youngest in the group.

After a few days of feeling even more anxious about the whole thing I spoke to her and said no, the speeches weren't on and neither was the seating plan. I think she realised it was either binning it off or my family not coming.

She has a big ongoing sulk about this - I'd told her as soon as I could gather myself, a couple of days after I found out, that the speeches were not a good idea and a week before the party but it was at the "last minute", "very hurtful", phoning up other family members to complain although not the younger family members she was trying to hassle; she didn't actually bother to tell them not to do a speech.

I think at that point I realised nothing was ever going to be enough and started cutting back contact very heavily.

Mine would play board games but preferred things will a big performance element like charades and often if she's hosting will try and coerce people into singing or poetry or whatnot.

Her piece du resistance was the fucking Christmas pudding. She had to preside over slicing it up asking people "left or right" like a Victorian matriarch. If you guessed correctly you got a coin of small value in your slice, like 5p, wrapped in a bit of tin foil.

If there were in laws for Christmas then they would often be visibly bewildered. If you didn't know the rules of this game it was your fault for being a peasant.

The first time DH visited my family for Christmas she had used coins from the currency of her homeland, just to be that bit extra.

Unfortunately, Christmas and birthdays seem to create the perfect dramatic opportunity for these personalities. Even someone else’s birthday! A group together provides a captive audience and a chance to be the centre of attention.

I used to hate Christmas as I knew she would sabotage it in some way. When my children were small, I tried to refocus it by doing the, ‘it’s for the children’ thing and not so important for the adults, but she would either throw a hissy fit or sob like a toddler about a present I had bought her because she ‘didn’t like’ it. If a child behaved like that, you would tick them off for being ungrateful and impolite, but she felt entitled to create a scene and knew it would stress me and take away the magic from the children to see granny upset in Christmas Day.

Christmas lunch was always a crisis point too. She wrinkle her nose up disdainfully when the food was served. I always put the items on platters so everyone could help themselves. She’d take a load and then push it around the plate saying it wasn’t cooked properly, she didn’t ‘really like’ whatever I had prepared, she wasn’t hungry etc. Then an hour later, she would say she wanted a slice of toast because she was peckish! If she was ignored, you could guarantee she would suddenly feel ill - usually a chest pain or faintness. She would retire to her room and realise after an hour or so that she was missing out and reappear!

Bit of an update and wise words are very welcome. Quick recap just so you don’t have to trawl through the thread. Difficult mother acknowledged by most people except our (baby) brother. Her behaviour tends to fall into having to control everything so she gets things her way - this is lifelong. Dad now in nursing care for the rest of his life - thriving frankly. Mother keeps adding a new barrier as to why she cannot do things. Each time there is a new one.

We have had assessments done to rule out dementia etc and she is sharp as a tack verbally. She is a very intelligent person and has always been a master of manipulation. We think she is displaying behaviours infront of our brother to make him think she has dementia. I am treading incredibly carefully here as it may well be something we need to revisit.

She refuses to visit the GP with my sister and I but will go with our brother. What is somewhat alarming is he only ever seems to come away with her medicated with anti depressants. We have tried encouraging her to do some holistic things alongside such as jigsaws, reading light gardening etc but she refuses so we cannot keep imposing our suggestions. We have all ended up having an argument and can see no way to move forward now. My sister and I sat down with mum and said we think we need a different approach as our brother is telling anyone who will listen that we are doing nothing and he is at mum’s all the time doing her washing, supporting her to dress etc etc etc. He isn’t. My brother in law thinks we need to intervene but I am reluctant. She is ok in the house. She has food she just doesn’t want to do much. That is fine she is an adult. She has no medical conditions she is just choosing to not try and help herself. Sorry one of my longer rants. Just thinking we can only do so much to help a healthy but stubborn adult.

She is eating; she does not have dementia; she is a grown adult.

She is simply a difficult woman and this does not seem to be age-related. She has always been like this.

You must choose not to let her manipulate you and make you feel bad. Only do for her what you want to do - if that is nothing then so be it. Whatever you choose then make your decision clear to her.

You are not obliged to intervene.

I think your last line sums it up. I'd suggesting working out what you do feel able to do and stick to it.

I remember mine saying she hadn't done physio, I took her some light weights and showed her exercises. Then I asked her if she'd been doing them and she said no but then started complaining shortly afterwards of a problem directly related to not doing the exercises. We had a few rounds of this sort of thing and sometimes it felt like she was generating two rounds of fuss over one thing - one of everyone talking into doing the thing she was making a meal of not doing and the inevitable subsequent round of fuss when the not doing created a problem.

The antidepressants might be a complicating factor as they can mess with your appetite and motivation levels. Prozac made me less anxious but it turned out I did need a certain level of anxiety to motivate me to exercise and eat more healthily, if that makes sense.

Is it worth trying to tackle your brother first? I almost get the impression from your posts he's creating as much stress as your mum by amplifying her behaviour. I know from bitter experience that if he's quite enmeshed the penny isn't going to drop straight away, but maybe it'd be possible to tackle him on some of the more challenging behaviours.

My mother has high cholesterol. I don't know what her figures are. She doesn't own a email address so GPs never emailed blood results and it's all verbal. For years, definitely since before the pandemic, she came home from a GP appointment and said she has high cholesterol. The doctor wanted to give her meds but she wants to treat it through the diet. She wanted me to research the diet online. So I did but she never took it seriously. This happened at 3 or 4 times since then. Her refusing meds in favour of diet but she will not implement a diet to lower cholesterol. She does the most obvious things like no drinking and smoking naturally. She used to go walking every day but no any more. There's so many things she can do like increase fruits and vegs and change from full fat mil to low fat milk but she won't do any of it and she complains so much. She only eats a banana or two a week and that's it. Maybe some beans too.

@violetmoons so sorry and so sorry the way you were treated.

Sorry to jump on as I haven't caught up. Met parents yesterday and D 86 suffered a TIA couldn't speak then was dazed and talking nonsense. Instantly thought of @BlueLegume s M as I suspect she would have been the same telling him to speak properly and pull himself together. It was horrific. They are home now and refusing to see GP. FFS.

Love to all dealing with this madness xxx

@BlueLegume what does your bil mean by "intervene". It sounds like your mum has been assessed recently and extensively. It sounds like she is physically and mentally well. I am a retired CPN and my husband is an older adult CPN. If she has her health and capacity then there is nothing you can do, she can choose to live,act and behave as she pleases.

I wonder if as you say she plays up for the GP for your brother's benefit.

All blooming impossible and you have my sympathies. These adults are just impossible and the stress levels obscene. Sadly your brother and your mum aren't going to change for the better.

My D has refused to see GP following his TIA so we wait for a stroke.

I've finally cracked after 4 and a half weeks of having MIL living with us I've had enough of her. She has spent her adult life being treated like a princess by FIL and when his dementia got worse and he couldn't wait on her hand and foot she didn't do a single thing for him. Now she would quite like DH to just take FILs place.

We are currently having a "fake" deterioration so that she doesn't need to move into her flat in the sheltered housing next week. FIL might have pandered to her but I'm done with it.

I’m intrigued by the number of these women (unfortunately, most of the examples on here seem to be female) that were enabled by their partners.

Is it because they are the last of a generation where men believed that women were delicate little flowers that needed to be pampered and protected? I know my mother played up on this ‘image’ She would make out she was incapable of doing things that she was quite able to do order to get everyone running around after her when actually she was skilfully manipulating us all. Dad used to give in for a quiet life and ask me, when I was a child not to antagonise or upset her, when really as the other adult, he should have been defending me or at the very least, standing up to her.

She always got her own way in the house because, if she didn’t, the toddler like tempers and sulks made everyone’s life hell. If someone challenged her or stood up to her outside the home, she immediately maintain she was the victim of bullying and would cry and/or complain of chest pains and dizziness and all her flying monkeys would gather around her to assure her she was definitely the wronged party.

I find it intriguing too @JohnPrescottsPyjamas MIL has to be number one. Poor FIL was still making her breakfast when he was getting lost on the way to the kitchen.

Interesting about the gender roles, my parents leaned heavily into pink & blue jobs. The domestic domain was definitely seen as my mum's which rather put my dad at a disadvantage when retired.
I always suspected my dad was quite unpleasant but as a girl, then woman I was kind of beneath his notice when it suited him which was most of the time. I think he'd rather ignore stuff - people, DIY, intellectual concepts rather than risk failing publicly.
I went to see him in hospital when he was quite ill, no witnesses. He was just nasty. Unnecessarily mean. Which really helped when he finally died, it's made grieving really straight forward. Respect on a practical level for childhood housing, an emotional understanding of his own childhood since both parents have spoken long and often about their past. But emotionally it's been rather straight forward, disconnected, like hearing some older that you worked with 20 years ago has died.

I feel for you OP. When nasty/difficult people become old, they are exceptionally difficult to deal with. As they are still the same awful person, but have a bit of a soft grey exterior, making people feel sorry for them etc.

I don’t think your parents are a product of their time, necessarily. It’s just another excuse for their behavior. I have recently looked after 3 of my dc’s grandparents who have now died, over the past 4 years. All were 1940s babies and none behaved like your parents. They were all good people and upset at the strain that their health/age/problems placed on me and DH.

The gender roles thing, but in a slightly warped version, permeates it for me. Mine is very very disapproving that I haven't conformed to traditional male/female roles (ie I'm not available to run around after her).

And yet, growing up, my Dad did so much that was "female". He worked FT, she either didn't work or not very much. Yet he was the one who also ran around with the hoover, cooked meals at weekends, did the taking children to weekend activities. He brought her cups of tea in bed so she didn't have to get up. He made his own lunch and breakfast on weekdays. I can remember him dealing with night time wakings as well as an older child, and from the sounds of it I don't think she wanted to deal with babies/toddlers in the night so he did it. He was constantly bringing her cups of tea as well. He dealt with all household finances and house/garden maintenance too.

He must have been exhausted! I'm now wondering what she did it with her time, as I can remember them having a cleaner as well! I suppose she must have done a bit of food shopping.

I'd wondered about this too. My mum had a whole load of bizarre ideas about gender roles and appearances too.

Dad would get sent in if she'd gone too far and really upset one of us and couldn't manipulate us any further.

Mine isn't from the UK but another English speaking country and had her heyday in the 60s. Her granny - and she bangs on about this - lived on the colonial frontier and I can't imagine these traits being useful or tolerated a couple of generations back.

I wonder if there was some sort if women's magazine that promoted these behaviour as a way to get and keep your man or something!?

And it's not that she was spending hours cooking amazing meals either. There wasn't as much available in the way of easy options as there is now and we didn't have a microwave until I was much older, but my childhood diet was very beige freezer food, baked beans, frozen peas, orange squash rather than water, all sorts of sugary puddings. I taught myself to cook when I went to university and have pretty much cooked from scratch ever since.

So I'm back to wondering what on earth she did with her time!

I'd love to do a tv cooking programme. The camera pulls in, I start to choke up, and talk about the recipes handed down by my mum. Then switch to making some dry, under seasoned basic meal, accompanied by a lot of 'do you know how hard I work'. Artic roll with freezer burn for afters.