Appalling behaviour-dressed up as old age-it has to be addressed

[BlueLegume]

Hi all, having followed and contributed to several threads on ‘Elderly Parents’ I want to thank so many of you for helping me look at my/our situation. I won’t name check you just yet but you know who you are. This thread is not to be unpleasant about the elderly who are having a hard time. It is to address a very honest point that my parents have always been difficult. Impossible to discuss anything important with, always known better and having watched them alienate good decent people I am angry that they made no effort in life to do anything other than fun stuff for themselves and now expect me and my siblings to pick up their mess. It seems so many middle aged people have fallen foul of these ‘war babies’ as my mother still refers to her and Dad. Yes I accept they were born at the end of the war and they will have had to live in a post war country. For our mother that is all she talks about. She doesn’t accept they had the boom years post war which she has photo evidence of living it large in the 50s and 60s. She was an incredibly authoritarian mother yet after a few drinks would party all night. Always a case of do as I say not as I do. Now as I approach 60 I am wracked with worry and anxiety because she now ‘can’t cope’. It’s ruining life . I have all the therapy theories and have shared much of it. That said I am mad at the fact I am still dictated to or it feels so by her. Father is in a nursing home after a lot of denial that was what he needed. She will not have any help in the house so it is all falling to us. We are broken. My own family are fed up and rightly so. Selfish as it sounds I did not retire to look after a very unpleasant woman who has never liked me. I appreciate that sounds very bitter.

@TammyJones I really did praise her for her honesty - possibly a bit OTT but she does like that and when she said ‘but what will people think’ I told her anyone who judges her - that is there issue to deal with.

I don’t live near her but I can arrange all sorts for her. She just wants me/sis/brother doing it all. She has totally lost sight of how exhausting it is and that none of us is that young plus we have commitments to our own families which are being badly neglected now. My DH said a week or so ago he feels he ‘lost’ the real BlueLegume 18 months ago. That is not good.

I do not want to impose ‘solutions’ on her to be mean she has just made everything so unnecessarily complicated with her inability to try and accept Dad is in the right place as instructed by his consultant-who my parents ignored and our brother ignored.

And thanks for the pick up - yes self care is vital in times like this.

Interesting. When my father was terminally ill with cancer (she was in her 40s then) she wanted him offloaded as soon as possible and had him in the local hospice far sooner than he ever needed be as she knew the director and laid it on thick about how she was struggling to cope. Dad was nowhere near needing intensive nursing care at that stage.

She also did the same to her second husband 20 years later when he was in the same situation, and also to her batchelor brother who lived with her.

However, she would love to sweep onto the ward, ensuring everyone was aware she had arrived and projecting and playing a role. Not that of a loving wife, but overdressed and very theatrical and being all sparkly for everyone but dad. Looking back, I wonder if she really couldn’t cope or face with anything less than 100% perfect?

She managed to play the grieving widow wailing and ‘fainting’ at all their funerals though!

I gave no advice that might help you, apart from agreeing that if your mother doesn’t want to visit, you can’t make her and tbh, if she was unwilling, it might create a negative vibe for your dad.

I know it’s not easy, I’ve been there exactly and not sure I could have done it, but are you able to temporarily withdraw some of your support? I’ll admit to occasionally blocking my mother’s number when I wasn’t in a good place or didn’t feel strong enough for her nonsense. I know you are trying to shield your sister too, but maybe suggest she does the same, so your brother will be forced to step up to the plate?

You deserve and have more than earned quality time with your immediate family. Please take care and look after yourself. X

@JohnPrescottsPyjamas firstly you were the first person I thought of when I heard the news of John Prescott’s death and remembered this quote ‘Reflecting on the incident in 2019, Prescott said: "When you get to being 80, you’re not scared of anything. I’ve got four or five years to think about death. When I do die, after 50 years in politics, all they will show on the news is 60 seconds of me thumping a fellow in Wales."

Yes to my mother and brother over egging performative grief, competition as to who cares the most. My sister and I have quietly got on with stuff, especially the admin. Brother just won’t do admin especially emails.

That really made me smile about John Prescott - because his prediction was exactly right! 😂

Performative grief. Perfect description and the word grief can be interchangeable with helplessness, illness, interest etc etc. Meanwhile those that really do the important stuff, just get on with it behind the scenes without expecting to be told repeatedly how wonderful or clever they are.

My mother never learned how to use the internet. To be honest there's no excuse for it. She's in her early 70s and loads of people know how to use some technology. She has apay as you go mobile phone and gets topped up maybe about 2 or 3 times a year. Before it used to be going to the shop to ask for top up paper but it can be done online now and she gets me to do it. Last time she topped up, I don't know when it was.

She decided on Thursday it was time to top up and get me to do it. But wait for it we woke to heavy snow on Thursday and no power. We had snow before but the power held up so that was not anticipated to be honest. So I had battery in my phone that was 10% and draining and no power bank and the internet reception was down and all the time my mother was on my back to top her up. I explained that everything is down and I can't. She targeted me again yesterday but everything was still down.

I had to go to work yesterday and I got stranded in work and I am still wearing yesterday's knickers and I don't know when I will be allowed to freshen up. And that's what's waiting for me at home. Another round of expecting me to work magic.

But the thing is she tops up maybe once every 4/5/6/7 months and she decided Thursday was it and surely she could wait til this passes. She nearly expects me to go out into the world and find some people, anyone will do and just piss down on top of their heads and backs to give into her requests. I can't just magic e the world better outside.

So so so so stressful.

Update-went today. She lives in a lovely home. Everything works. It’s plush and lovely.

She is just miserable.

I just wonder what other people think of this. My mother talks about her ‘very close family’. By this she means her brother who she is in touch with every day and his long suffering wife. They live at the other end of the country and visit her maybe once a year for a couple of weeks. She takes them out for all their meals and pays for them. She also sends them money for holidays and buys them stuff. When I see them with her they seem to find her very irritating and are sometimes quite openly rude to her.
Her other brother she has seen once in fifteen years. She never visits him . However her brothers are her family, not her children or grandchildren. She is estranged from my brother and I can hardly bear to be around her . My other sibling sees her about once a year for a couple of days.

I am treated like a glorified admin assistant and handy person. She likes to give me crap someone else has given her that she doesn’t want or stuff from charity shops. I’m not her real family you see.

@AskingQuestions45 Do you live with your mother or nearby?
I do suspect with these type of people, familiarity breeds contempt. You get taken advantage of and they don’t need to make an effort to even be pleasant because they see you regularly. It’s easier to maintain the illusion of a charming, sweet, sparking personality when they don’t see their family members so often.

@BlueLegume has a brilliant term for it; performative behaviour. They are desperate to control others perceptions of themselves and maintain an image, so they ‘act’ a part and project an image. The trouble is; it requires a lot of work to keep this up, so those closest to them get the brunt of, and see the real person and perversely, they also cling to you like a someone drowning.

If I had my time again, I would definitely go NC but I understand it’s so easy to say, not always easy to do. I’m not sure I would ever even brave enough, but I know long term I would have been so much happier and healthier.

Feel free to vent and rant. Theres nothing you could say about these type of parents that would surprise us. X

Thank you. She is definitely performative! I plan to move away next year. We are constantly falling out and I have been NC many times. She just brings nothing positive to my life and never has.

The performances are quite something to behold and it helps to remind myself she has always ‘performed’ as opposed to to ‘living’. Every single thing that ever had to be done in the house was magnified as a ‘nightmare’ when it was a simple job like putting up curtains - things the rest of us do as part of everyday living. She could never go to a local store to buy furniture it would have to be a country wide ‘search’ with days and days out all to buy a sofa/cupboard. And everyone got told about it. I got to thinking yesterday - what do you actually want from me?

Showing love, understanding and patience with her nonsense behaviour does not work. My amateur theory is she wants control and us all keep turning up is supplying her with the control. She manipulates every bit of the conversation so you end up in circular riddles.

So I have a plan which may or may not work as it is not my natural personality to withhold help….here goes
I am stopping with any emotional reaction as I think as long as she is getting reaction she is centre stage and she knows it.

I am cutting back on time, including energy spent on thinking about how I can help her, and especially engagement in circular conversations.

I am running around like a headless chicken in an attempt to ‘fix’ all the things she says are not working - I think she gets a kick out of watching me frazzled. Need to practice greyrock!

She has always liked a sense of power knowing she is able to guilt trip me into ‘feeling sorry’ or sympathise at how awful her life is……I must stop as I am just enabling poor behaviour to continue.

She is actually very strategic in her manipulation - so I need to work on having this at the front of my mind. the reality of the here and now is she has controlled my Dad all his life - now he is not there she only has us left to control and as it is learned behaviour/personality disorder she can’t stop or change. Only I can.

She has always wanted to hold us back - she has never wanted us to be individuals because she cannot control us, well me especially and she seethes and always has at anything good in my life. I need to stop being guilt tripped and take my own advice regarding F.O.G!!

When I am not around her I can recognise all the patterns over her life of what she does to control things and I need to remind myself of this rather than keep getting sucked into her manipulation.

I will keep this post as a reminder that I do have the tools to deal with her. Solidarity to everyone in a similar place. As a wise person said to me recently - you cannot medicate a personality.

Oh, great. Last night I was out with my family and it turned out mine has texted my husband and son (boy I regret giving her the number) asking what they want for Christmas.

Which sounds innocent and harmless, no? I know I sound really odd. The thing is that gifts are used as a way of showing domination and control.

I have a whole litany of stories about really terrible presents she's give me and that I've had to be suitably grateful for, even when they were awful.

I feel really shit about the whole thing and it's designed to put me in a spot where either I'm the baddy and tell her to fuck off and stop contacting us (again) or watch her trying to worm her way in with my kids with presents, which she will expect to be acknowledged for and to try and build up a relationship with, so she can then use my kids as her flying monkeys.

I'd been feeling bad about being NC and I think if he got in touch and said "I'm sorry, I've had counselling, I've reflected about things and I can see why you're upset" then that would help.

But the fact we're back to the presents game just makes me feel really sick.

She is attempting to use my husband and son as flying monkeys, isn't she? :(

Probably
Can they just block her?

@HoraceGoesBonkers yep she is ‘love-bombing’ with the gift giving then she will have some ‘money in the bank’ if you like to use the gifts she gave to get them playing ‘flying monkeys’ At least you do recognise this.

I asked my mother to back off last year - was calling my kids and my nephews and nieces at weird times of day and then hanging up saying she had pressed the wrong number - she hadn’t she wanted to hook them into her games. Ringing me at 6 am then hanging up or putting the phone aside and making sure I could hear her making odd noises so I would dash over. then nothing was wrong when I go there. A total waste of my time. But she had got the attention ‘fix’ she seems to need.

Our brother went ballistic at me saying she was ill and I should be more compassionate. We went along with his ‘she is ill Blue, be kind’. Got her a referral to get a diagnosis he wanted but she passed everything with flying colours and also refused to engage in any talking therapy or try and be a little social.

Yesterday she was ‘performing’ some obvious red flag behaviours that frankly would have warranted a trip to a psychiatric facility but she has cried wolf so often I have decided not to react to them anymore.

As I have stated before a wise person told me you cannot medicate a personality trait.

It's hard explaining to a kid that they need to block granny who wants to buy them a present, isn't it?

Mine did the thing with pretending to call "by mistake" too. The worst one was when my sister (who had terrible mental health problems)was having a bad episode and kept phoning and phoning over and over for a couple of days and I was really on edge about it. My Mum called me during my work hours the next day (which I'd repeatedly asked her not to) and I thought it was about my sister. No, she just wanted to keep on top of the family attention league and said she had phoned "by mistake" and then it was my fault for being pissed off.

@HoraceGoesBonkers these behaviours are so attention seeking. I have been trying to look at the bigger picture and can see that my OP and the title are actually misleading now I have unpicked things.

This is my mother’s personality and always has been. Her childish behaviours to het her own way are the only way she knows how to operate - it was all tempered when Dad was around but she definitely controlled everything he did. He had no independence and even if his brothers and cousins asked him to go the the local bar to watch football etc he wasn’t allowed/she arranged something to clash or the odd time he did go she would throw a strop.

@BlueLegume that sounds like a good plan. Even if you can tackle one thing at a time. Like the circular maddening conversations or your emotional reaction. Even addressing one of these would make a big difference. It will be hard though, it is breaking behaviours that are deeply entrenched. Will be interesting to hear how your mum responds to your new behaviours. Good luck x

@HoraceGoesBonkers oh yes to the shit presents. I also find the festive season difficult as I don't have a rosy TV family. I have a toxic and dysfunctional one, well my wider family.

Yes to the awful presents, regifted used toiletries, wrong sized middle aisle Aldi crap, £1 for each year alive so £53 for birthday not so good for grandchildren!

Pyjamas and clothes in a size 16, I am a 10/12.

Utter head messing tedious behaviour x

I have had a litany of really awful presents. I had a whole collection of plastic "ethnic" bracelets from my mum's home country that you'd think she would have realised I never wore but kept getting them anyway.

Also food I was allergic to (she gave it to me saying "oh you can't eat this"), string (it was meant to be yarn but it was, ehm, string, I think she got it in a sale), hideous gold lame peep toe shoes, and vouchers for a shop that was one letter different from a nationwide chain that she really liked. I got to the checkout having driven there to get stuff I didn't really want but to use up the voucher, and the attendant pointed out it was a similarly named but different company I had vouchers for.

The didn't say anything about the vouchers because I knew I'd be painted as being ungrateful...

I really don't want her pulling this sort of shit with my kids.

@HoraceGoesBonkers sadly from bitter experience she will do exactly the same to your kids. Last year my son was given a ladies purse he was 21!

Awful the gold lame peep toe shoes, crazy isn't it. All a big shitty game I want no part of.

She has loudly and rudely criticised gifts me and my sister's have given her but is very happy to give us the most crap gifts. I'd like to just stop it all.

Yeah, I remember posting my Dad some sweets he liked from a town he went on holiday to as a kid, and the parcel burst, he still got most of the stuff in it. She made a fuss about the parcel bursting and I felt guilted into buying him more sweets!

It's just a total drip drip drip - a lot of it sounds so silly in isolation but it's all the time.

@HoraceGoesBonkers absolutely to the drip drip drip. Sadly you take it on the chin to be the decent person you are and to avoid causing conflict in the moment. then the House of Cards falls with no foundations and everything is exposed to the World but we already knew the reality. So everyone scarpers.

I can't remember if I've posted this before but I'd highly recommend a book called Wave Walked by Suzanne Heywood.

It's an autobiography about a girl who just wants to have a stable life, friends and school but her parents want to sail around the world on a journey that keeps being extended.

It's a bit of an uncomfortable read as the parents, well, they're THEM and everything that's been recounted on this thread.

I did find it really helpful in working out what sort of person my mum is. Although I felt she wasn't as bad, there are definite parallels that made me feel a bit sick... she once announced over dinner we were moving back to her home country, I was 13 and so upset. It came to nothing that time but she had pulled my older siblings over various countries and said it hadn't done them any harm when it clearly very badly damaged my poor late sister.

I once when I was quite small got my mum a pair of slippers for Christmas which she really pointedly changed for a different colour. I mentioned this (I hasn't meant anything by it) in front of my Dad and I think he said something to her. She got me on my own later and shouted at me for bringing it up! Presents were so loaded!

@HoraceGoesBonkers thanks for the recommendation sounds interesting and I am always keen to get greater insights. Interestingly my mother was always bugging up things that were never going to happen. I remember one year she had found a job that she made my Dad apply for in the Caribbean. We had at this point not even been abroad. Went through the whole malarkey of interviews on the phone etc etc. He got offered the job ‘over the phone’ supposedly so then - pre internet loads of calls to everyone telling them we were ‘moving to the Caribbean’. He had not been offered the job they had asked him to fly out for a further face to face interview. He didn’t have a passport. It was never going to happen it was all a distraction to bring attention to themselves.

This is someone who has lived in the street adjacent to where she grew up.

When we were kids she used to walk up the driveways of houses with for sale signs up and peer through the windows. Got a shock one day when the family came to the door and asked what the heck she was doing. So cringeworthy as she bold as brass said ‘well you have a for sale sign up so why would I not come and have a look? You won’t sell it if you don’t let people have a look’

Another weird thing was something I only found out about in the past year. I have a friend who spends large parts of her life in a stand in the Med where she has family. My mother went there once years ago on a package holiday - for a week. My friend told me that she had bumped into my mother in a local store when she had come back from spending Christmas on said island with her family. My mother apparently said ‘oh we nearly bought a house there’. I challenged her and she swore blind that they nearly had. She genuinely convinces herself these things are real. She has definitely got a very strange personality. but then she has always been allowed to get away with it.