Appalling behaviour-dressed up as old age-it has to be addressed

[BlueLegume]

Hi all, having followed and contributed to several threads on ‘Elderly Parents’ I want to thank so many of you for helping me look at my/our situation. I won’t name check you just yet but you know who you are. This thread is not to be unpleasant about the elderly who are having a hard time. It is to address a very honest point that my parents have always been difficult. Impossible to discuss anything important with, always known better and having watched them alienate good decent people I am angry that they made no effort in life to do anything other than fun stuff for themselves and now expect me and my siblings to pick up their mess. It seems so many middle aged people have fallen foul of these ‘war babies’ as my mother still refers to her and Dad. Yes I accept they were born at the end of the war and they will have had to live in a post war country. For our mother that is all she talks about. She doesn’t accept they had the boom years post war which she has photo evidence of living it large in the 50s and 60s. She was an incredibly authoritarian mother yet after a few drinks would party all night. Always a case of do as I say not as I do. Now as I approach 60 I am wracked with worry and anxiety because she now ‘can’t cope’. It’s ruining life . I have all the therapy theories and have shared much of it. That said I am mad at the fact I am still dictated to or it feels so by her. Father is in a nursing home after a lot of denial that was what he needed. She will not have any help in the house so it is all falling to us. We are broken. My own family are fed up and rightly so. Selfish as it sounds I did not retire to look after a very unpleasant woman who has never liked me. I appreciate that sounds very bitter.

@JessiesHuman We’re all here, understand and are in no way judgemental whatsoever. There’s no ‘correct’ way to grieve - or even not grieve. I’ve posted up thread that I didn’t feel at the time - or even later - any emotion about my mother’s death. Just the recognition it was the end of an era and rather detached from the whole event.
I lost my beloved cat last week and I was far more distraught at the loss of him, than my own parent, which summed up the whole relationship with her.

Such wise advice from @SockFluffInTheBath and @JANetChick too. First and foremost, be kind and gentle to yourself.

Sending you virtual hugs. X

Thank you for your support. I'm feeling so weird. I loved my mum deeply but didn't always like her - if that makes sense. One minute I'm okay and the next I'm bawling my eye out with a bowl because I think I'm going to be sick.

@JessiesHuman I'm so sorry to her this. Sending

There’s no supposed in terms of feelings; you feel what you feel, nothing is off limits. Sending hugs xx

Not told the girls yet. My ExH's 'MIL' has her birthday today so I don't want to spoil things for her or for the girls.

I need to go and visit DF this week I haven't been for a few weeks.

I hate it because if it's a good visit he's asleep and if it's a bad one he's awake and making noises like he's distressed; I had a bad mental health episode about 6 months ago after driving up and down myself. DH has agreed to come with me now.

I stopped doing joint visits with DM as soon as he moved into the home. I stopped them because it was stressful enough seeing DF without her seizing on the opportunity to create a fuss. I remember DH dropped me and took the kids to the park and she went completely hyper and insisted I phone him straight away (I explained he would be driving) to demand the kids stood at the window. She was briefly interested in them then ignored them and I don't think Dad had a clue they were there. One of the many times I wish I'd told her to fuck off.

It's the second visit since I went NC with my DM and I'm a bit worried. I know it sounds silly but I used to tell her when I was going; she'd then push and push to come or send me multiple messages in the morning, and then when that didn't work she started leaving bags of tat in the room for the kids, I think to make her presence felt and to impress the staff. Any gifts are a control thing too - if you don't get in touch to say thanks then you're rude, if you do then it's a lever to escalate contact.

I'm feeling a bit sick about not letting her know as at least she did stick to not visiting at the same time when I insisted she didn't come. I don't want to show up and discover she's there. But I also wouldn't put it past her to turn up to make a point either... one of the reasons I finally went NC was when I told her I couldn't meet her on a specific weekend and so she turned up at my door anyway and posted a small amount of money through for the kids (there was absolutely no reason she couldn't have done a bank transfer and claimed she was "just passing" - she lives an hour away).

Since going NC she's kept posting stuff to my husband and kids, about once a month, and the last time we spoke she was telling me we had to work together for the sake of the family.

I'd been feeling a lot better since going NC but the prospect of doing a visit is bringing back the old feelings of fear and anxiety.

I understand “the old feelings of fear and anxiety”, Horace.

I’m Low Contact with the adoptive mother not NC, but during a necessary visit last year she had one of her tantrums and her face clouded and contorted with rage in the exact way it did when I was a child.

Back then, I couldn’t walk away because I was a child. These days, I can. And I have no qualms about doing so. A massive dark cloud has disappeared, knowing I’m no longer obliged to be in that woman’s company.

I’ve seen her twice this year I think. Once when she had to be taken to hospital and the carer who found her (understandably ) could not wait, and once when I needed to deal with a plumber following a boiler malfunction which the carer reported to me. On both occasions I hovered in the hallway waiting for the paramedic/plumber in order to minimise contact with the old woman, who was ranting and threatening me. She makes my skin crawl.

@JANetChick I think one of the times the penny started to drop was when I took my kids to see her and she was all flouncing out the room and not speaking and sulking, and clearly wanted me to ask what was wrong rather than just saying whatever it was. I left fairly quickly as frankly my kids didn't need to be around that sort of behaviour, and then she complained behind my back I didn't stay long enough.

The stuff for the kids sounds so weird but I hate it. I wish she'd stop sending anything, she's really tight and it's mostly total crap that's only given to compel the recipient to say thanks. A couple of years ago she gave the kids a whole £5 each for their summer holidays and then clearly expected to be thanked profusely; I'd spent a fortune on driving up and down to see her and I was so pissed off.

I guess it's also because she has a long history of giving really awful presents. She once gave me a food item for my birthday in the full knowledge I was allergic to it but said my DH could eat it. Gee thanks. The worst one was a voucher for a well known shop except she'd managed to buy a voucher for somewhere with very slightly different name, and I only realised when I got to the till. Well, the worst one apart from the time she gave me some white plastic coated yarn that was exactly like string.

Are your children old enough to be told the truth? They can then obviously make up their own minds about contact with her, but in possession of the facts.

My oldest knows a bit about what's gone on. He's got autism (which she doesn't know about) and I'm wary of how manipulative she can be with him. She got him to slag off our car when he was younger and ask for a bigger one.

The youngest is too little to understand properly and asks to see her sometimes.

I know I'm going to have to explain when she's older and that is a worry. But basically we had a run of really shit things as a family - a bereavement, breast cancer, DF being ill - and I couldn't cope with all the extra drama she brings.

My sister had cancer so my mum took it upon herself, without asking my sister, to phone around relatives telling them and give them updates. Except that obviously wasn't enough so at one point she phoned round everyone inferring my sister's prognosis was actually much worse than it was. I got a really worried phone call from someone she'd spoken to and then had to set her straight and tell my sister. It was just a totally unnecessary extra layer of stress at a shit time - but the relative I spoke to luckily sees through her as well and knows she's got extensive form.

Don’t worry about explaining it to them when they’re older. They’ll have already picked up on the fact that somehing is amiss with her. And they’ll be glad you told them, and really supportive. I’ve been through it with my adult DCs.

@HoraceGoesBonkers @JANetChickI have just caught up on your most recent posts and can only really send sympathy. I would add though that everything you wrote I can understand as similar has happened in our family. If it wasn’t so damaging it would be seen as ‘silly’. The sharing of other peoples diagnoses is a very familiar one. I had something about 5 years ago which involved a simple procedure. My mother rang family and told them what had happened but then proceeded to tell them why it had happened-‘BlueLegume does too much exercise’….that was not the diagnosis at all. She then proceeded to grill me as to why she had not had this happen to her so why had it happened to me - almost accusatory.
The car was an interesting one. When my DH and I were late 20s we got the chance to have a company car - as you did back then. We chose the German usual company car. Parents immediately upgraded there saloon to a top of the range version of our one, completely top of the range. It must have cost them a fortune but she always had to have better. Exhaustingly manipulative behaviour and I am wary not over sharing as it might out myself! Do I think there is a personality disorder - absolutely. Sadly all the little things we used to roll our eyes at and pass off are haunting us with our brother telling us to ‘be kinder Mum is ill’. Several trips to various clinicians-18 months on we have no diagnosis.

I remember having a pregnancy related medical issue and mum phoned round everyone to tell them, adding that it was because I was "too fat". Lovely!

Another one of her cancer ones was making a massive deal out of telling my DF, this was fairly recently so he couldn't speak or move or do anything much. But she decided he had to know so told him in the nursing home where they "wept together".

So she got to upset my Dad, create a scene for the staff in the home to see to garner sympathy, and then reported it back to my sister in an attempt to generate an emotional reaction there too.

She was really minimising my sister going in for a biopsy at first because presumably was worried it'd be less attention for her, but did her best to made lemonade out of lemons. 🙄

@HoraceGoesBonkers again I have similar tales. Every single thing has always had to be accompanied by a drama bringing everything back to herself. When our Dad was in a reablement unit but clearly not able to be reabled the lead clinician had to take me on one side to ‘point out’ that our mother behaved terribly towards the staff who were amazing. She refused to engage with any discussion about what Dad needed and she fixated on irrelevant things such as them dressing him in black trousers paired with a blue T shirt. She kept telling me that all his things had been stolen, clothes etc. I suggested she write me a list of what had ‘gone missing’. It was all made up as I showed her his wardrobe and pointed out he had plenty of things including some of the ones on the list. She turned on me and said I was on the staff side and that I was trying to say she was lying. The daft bit was she refused to make any effort to label any of his things even though the staff had asked her time and time again. I organised some name labels and she told me they ‘don’t work’. They did and they continue to. Sorry rambling now but good to vent.
If I had to I would say she has a personality disorder and it seems to show itself and always has as defiance. So even if I say the soup is hot Mum it is clearly bubbling, she cannot help herself but tell me it’s not hot enough. I have stopped cooking for her now as she has a range of comments used intermittently….’too spicy/too bland/ too salty/‘ or on the final occasion when she wretched and told me it was inedible. All to control all about her. No thought that hours driving to hers shopping prepping the food etc take us away from our families.

I don't tell my M when I'm unwell now. Anything that anyone has she decides , or queries, that she has as well. Then she wants ( the actually ill ) person to tell her their symptoms and how to medicate. Then doesn't do it. Once, she actually got GC sis to arrange for her to be fitted with a catheter, because she was 'afraid' of incontinence .

I had Long Covid for 3 years. Flying monkey dsis visited and found out I had trouble walking. No support for me, but hey presto, so did she. Ive (generally) recalibrated now. It's almost funny. Maybe I could experiment with some 'illnesses'. But then the wider family would be ringing me, so probably not. It's all good gossip/drama !

Ironically, GC sis , or ex GC sis because she's no longer able to run round doing stuff for M, is receiving treatment for cancer. Which is awful. All fingers and toes crossed.
M is unhappy because circumstantially sis now can't visit .......her, much, any more

@BlueLegume I started teaching myself to cook as a teenager and mine would sabotage dishes! She'd wait until I was out the kitchen then do stuff like turning over a roast pork to ruin the crackling or put loads of cornflour in a curry so it went all gloopy and tasted weird. All under the guise of "helping" and of course if anyone pulled her up she was the victim.

It's so weird how they pick the same tools!

@HoraceGoesBonkers crazy. Do you think some women just cannot handle having a daughter/s? I’ve come to that conclusion with mine. My sister was really good at a particular sport as a kid - think county level. Just a natural really. Mum took the sport up and had one to one coaching and then began to compete in the older age levels she was about 40-45. She won everything as she became obsessed with it and expressed her disappointment that DSis wasn’t winning like she was. Sis was also juggling school and a Saturday job so she just didn’t have the time to dedicate to the sport like Mum did. Sis literally stopped doing the sport at all when she was about 15 and didn’t take it up again until recently when we both retired and had time to enjoy it again. That was the point our mother ramped up this awful behaviour. When our Dad was first in hospital my sis and I went to see him pretty much daily and one day we went to the cinema on our way home and for a bite to eat. When we told Dad at the next visit he was interested in the film etc etc. Our mother looked in horror and in an almost Hyacinth Bucket voice exclaimed ‘you went to the cinema with all this going on?’. It took all my resolve to ask what on earth she meant because I knew what she meant. She meant oh no BlueLegume if my life is now difficult I expect yours to be as well. No more fun. No distractions just misery because I am miserable.

@BlueLegume that's so odd. I took up an activity a couple of years and and my mum started going to her local branch of the same group. I had been really vague for ages about what I was up to but shared this thing as it seemed harmless enough but then it got weaponised too.

I'm not sure if my mum was planning on appearing at my local thing or was hoping to catch me at hers. Fortunately people didn't pay her enough attention so she gave up.

@BlueLegume madness. I really do wonder if some women struggle with having daughters. I have 2 and I have loved watching them blossom and become their own women. We have incredibly open conversations sometimes we agree sometimes we don’t but we respect each others views. My mother was always very authoritative in a ‘mother knows better’ way. Very much didn’t cope with her children growing up and developing individual personalities. She once said in a fit of pique ‘why couldn’t you stay as babies? I liked you then’. It took me years and years plus some therapy to interpret that not as her liking babies but liking the fact she could control a baby more than a child with a voice.

Yes, I think you’re absolutely right.

Re babies; my mother loved them because their needs are fairly simple. What she struggled with was once a child developed their own personality with their own opinions and preferences. Watching her interacting with mine was a real eye opener and a strong reminder of my upbringing. She was very keen on physical punishment. She would regularly say my children needed, “A short sharp smack” when they were unhappy rather than actually being naughty! She had no time for asking or getting to the root cause of an issue, it was slap first then an additional verbal attack for crying. Looking back I think she enjoyed keeping me in a state of perpetual fear as it gave her absolute power.

Definitely an element of jealousy, which is so sad. Any achievements I had were always dismissed as luck or because of her - but would brag to others. I had moderate success as a tennis player but she told me that, “men don’t like women that are all brawn and no brain” but ironically, always considered a male opinion as carrying far more weight than a female one. She was derogatory about what I wore, but tried to copy me, even though we were totally different body shapes and colouring. It’s really sad as the pleasure and pride I get seeing my daughter building a successful career and having a happy and well balanced life and relationships is so precious. My mother missed out on so much through her envy and spite.

I’ve long thought my mother and to some degree by association lived/lives in a fantasy world where she really thought she was perfect and superior to everyone and as kids we sort of had to be part of that - we weren’t really allowed to develop our own identity it had to suit her and as such we did have to be secretive about normal growing up things because she didn’t like them. Things like only watching BBC tv shows because ITV was considered common. I read a quote that summed it up for me…..
“They want you to deny your own reality and become the puppet they need you to be so they could continue to live the the crazy facade, they call, a life.”

@JohnPrescottsPyjamas yep. I’m messaging my sister because I think she might be you 🤣🤣🤣

My mother's latest escapade.
Since my dad died I have had to have my mother for Christmas Day, she just assumed she was coming here. She won't go to brothers because an auntie she doesn't like goes and she won't go to sisters because she doesn't like her husband( he won't tolerate her bullshit)
20+ years of Xmas, quite a few of which she has thrown a spanner in the works. The usual pushing food around the plate, not turning up in time for dinner making everyone wait, and sitting there like a thunder cloud, Has never contributed anything to the dinner. Not even a packet of crackers.
I always get my turkey from M&S because it's the one she will eat. This has to be ordered, she knows this.
This year, my son and his family moved into their new house abroad, so they obviously want to spend 1st Christmas at home. They invited me and I said I can't really because your nan will be alone, but I will come between Christmas and New Year.
I've since found out she has basically invited herself over there for Christmas and had fully intended not to tell me (DIL let me know) because "Well no one tells her when they are going away" (she wouldn't know because she never asks people about their life, only talks at them).
I had spoken to her about Christmas arrangements after she had done this and before I knew and she was going to allow me to order all the Christmas food and drinks (some for her specifically) and then take great delight in us discovering she wasn't here on Christmas day. How warped is that?

I,m not bothered she isn't coming in fact I,m relieved, but its the way she set out to deliberately hide it so she could get some sort of pleasure from the inconvenience and to score some imagined point she has in her twisted little head.

@reesewithoutaspoon yep mind games and then faux victim hood. My mother does and always has played people off with titbits of information made to look like no one cares. I’ve probably already shared this on here so apologies - I got a phone call in the summer from a cousin I don’t really see much, different lives etc no fall out. She launched into a “how can you be so heartless to Aunty (mums name) when she is so lonely and has so much going on. Turned out my mother had bumped into one of cousins friends in a shop and launched into her routine of

1. I don’t know why I am in this shop I don’t know what to buy and I’ve no food in. Ermm well that’s odd Mum because the day previously I’d taken a big shop of really nice well thought out food for her. Lots of treats. Cherries strawberries lovely yogurt. Pre cooked salmon, coleslaw potato salad. Decent ready meals. Enough for a good week. She didn’t mention that.
2. Told said person she didn’t like buying too much because (Dads name) is in a nursing home. Friend assuming that Mum was paying related this back to cousin. She didn’t exactly say she was paying just left it hanging. In reality she isn’t paying a penny Dad gets CHC but the suggestion was there.

Cousin was shocked at the reality. Mind games and controlling the narrative- got her some attention though. I seriously do think she is addicted to attention of any kind.

I'm sure she’s lonely but even speaking on the phone or spending time with her is such an energy sap. She won’t try and help herself and she won’t accept we cannot make her happy.

Honestly it's just so nasty. She is probably stewing now because her dastardly plan was foiled.
I won't be surprised if she decides the day before she isn't going, just to cause some drama.