Appalling behaviour-dressed up as old age-it has to be addressed

[BlueLegume]

Hi all, having followed and contributed to several threads on ‘Elderly Parents’ I want to thank so many of you for helping me look at my/our situation. I won’t name check you just yet but you know who you are. This thread is not to be unpleasant about the elderly who are having a hard time. It is to address a very honest point that my parents have always been difficult. Impossible to discuss anything important with, always known better and having watched them alienate good decent people I am angry that they made no effort in life to do anything other than fun stuff for themselves and now expect me and my siblings to pick up their mess. It seems so many middle aged people have fallen foul of these ‘war babies’ as my mother still refers to her and Dad. Yes I accept they were born at the end of the war and they will have had to live in a post war country. For our mother that is all she talks about. She doesn’t accept they had the boom years post war which she has photo evidence of living it large in the 50s and 60s. She was an incredibly authoritarian mother yet after a few drinks would party all night. Always a case of do as I say not as I do. Now as I approach 60 I am wracked with worry and anxiety because she now ‘can’t cope’. It’s ruining life . I have all the therapy theories and have shared much of it. That said I am mad at the fact I am still dictated to or it feels so by her. Father is in a nursing home after a lot of denial that was what he needed. She will not have any help in the house so it is all falling to us. We are broken. My own family are fed up and rightly so. Selfish as it sounds I did not retire to look after a very unpleasant woman who has never liked me. I appreciate that sounds very bitter.

@reesewithoutaspoon it feels like a life size game of never ending chess to me. Much as some elderly genuinely lose the ability to carry out certain tasks in our mothers case it feels like she chooses what she can and can’t do especially when it means we have no option but to be physically present. Masters of manipulation and absolutely recognise the “oh Mum that sounds like so and so was out of order speaking to you like that” but then “not wanting to make a fuss addressing it……because Mum you lied/exaggerated/ made it up. One of my pet peeves is my mother saying “I thought” when she’s challenged about yet another story that got back to us. She literally makes stuff up.

Yes, my mother used to make stuff up too and it could be quite disturbing. There were times when I actually doubted my own sanity because she would tell me I had said or agreed to something that I had absolutely no memory of. If I denied it, she would look at me as though I was the one with the problem and sound so sure and convincing.

Her ‘stories’ were always about something amazing she had done, how she saved the day or how she’d been the victim of someone’s unreasonable behaviour. And likewise, when I called her bluff and said I would speak to the person, she would back off at 100 miles an hour and say she didn’t want a fuss or least said, soonest mended.

We had a lot of this with illness too. She couldn’t be just under the weather. It was always a chest pain, chest tightness so struggling to breath, violent sickness, blinding headache etc etc, but if I told her that if her symptoms were that serious, she clearly needed medical help, it always resulted in massive backpedaling. Lots of crying wolf for attention.

Mine gaslights, exaggerates, tells half truths and sometimes outright lies too.

She once wrote and gave me a book she wanted to publish. She didn't warn me that it was about a really traumatic episode when I was a teenager where a family member died young. I was so upset and angry - she'd intended to publish it as well. I honestly think most people would have hit the roof about it, she did it just before she went on holiday.

She couldn't understand why I was so upset and there was a lot of whataboutery and anger on her part. I hadn't been suitably impressed about something she'd done in her teens apparently.

She backed off publishing that - it hadn't just upset me, it was the whole family. Ironically I was the only one who'd read it as soon as I'd been given it so was labelled as the troublemaker. I think one of my aunts intervened as well and said it was no wonder she'd upset everyone, although the aunty said she didn't really seem to understand what she'd done - no empathy.

Anyway she had another book she was writing but not for publication, just for the family.

I then found out from other relatives she had actually published it. When I brought this up the last time I spoke to her she just went off about how I didn't give her access to my social media (which she was on briefly but used it to track what I was doing, call me up and shout at me when she'd had a few drinks and I'd done something she disagreed with).

@HoraceGoesBonkers Spooky you should mention book writing too.

My mother used to relate these romantic tales of her childhood growing up in a rural idyll; fairy stories around the fireside, village dances, cousins playing in flower filled fields with cousins, freshly baked bread out of the oven, walking to school along dusty lanes. People who met her used to tell her she should write a book about her experiences and share it with others, which fed into her ego and sense of importance.

This was all stuff she’d read about, written by others but somehow it had become her life and her experience. All completely fabricated by her.

She was the child of economic migrants who came to England when she was 4 and she grew up in the centre of London! Nothing wrong with that or any reason to be ashamed, the family ultimately did very well, but the recollections of the countryside were pure myth.

@JohnPrescottsPyjamas Mine did almost unbelievable stuff in her home country before she got here. Her home country is also vastly superior to here.

Mine used to go on about spelling and education standards. Her writing was absolutely full of spelling and grammar mistakes because it's someone else's job to tidy it up apparently. And also market it (in some ways I dodged a bullet there!).

@BlueLegume I like your chess analogy. Yes, I remember it well. Trying to anticipate what sort of mood, drama or issue you would be confronted with this time. Always having to have another tool in the kit in preparation for the abrupt change of direction or the immediate rejection of your logical solution to a problem. Having to be prepared for the sudden, irrational dislike of something or someone that yesterday was perfectly acceptable, but today is inexplicably ‘hated’ A game being constantly played to deliberately wrong foot you. You think you’ve got the situation under some sort of control, and then the goal posts are completely moved.

It’s so emotionally exhausting.

@JohnPrescottsPyjamas absolutely exhausting. I’m currently on my way to my sisters as she’s had a run in with our brother who has accused her of not caring for our mother enough. He’s aware she’s had an operation this summer and is still recovering. He’s not asked her once how she is he’s just launched a horrible diatribe questioning why she isn’t doing x y Z. The daft thing is I was meant to be doing some shopping for our mother but due to his poor behaviour I need to console my sister who is wracked with guilt after what he has said. What I’ve massively realised is he is very much his mother’s son. Nothing we ever do quite sits right with him he’s always got a gripe.

It appears that because my sister and I are not outwardly “being sad” - performative grief is how I see it. Our brother interprets that as not caring. He’s no idea how we feel but hey let’s just chuck some more fuel on an already stoked fire. He’s always ‘busier’ than us without knowing anything about our lives. He always has to declare how much he cares so much about our parents. It’s bizarre really as if he thinks there is a medal going to be awarded for the most showmanship of caring. Pity he doesn’t bother answering emails or calls from Dads nursing facility. They’ve given up trying- it seems admin is beneath him -well the reality is no one sees admin being done. Sounding a little bitter this morning. I’m gutted for my sister she’s trying to now think of ways she can ‘do more’ and I’m determined she is not to just to get his approval as she never ever will. Gosh what a mess.

@BlueLegume sending strength.
Thank heavens your sister has you .
Tell her that there are strangers out here sending love and understanding.

@whatwouldyoudoifisangoutofkey thanks and I’m with her now so will pass on the love. To be fair we can see our brother is struggling but when we attempt any sensible conversation about addressing things he just sabotages the conversation repeatedly telling us how much he cares about our parents. He refuses to listen- bear in mind we tried sitting down with him 18 months ago but he batted us away. If we could get our mother to accept some help, a cleaner, food delivery service, meals on wheels type of thing then we could all stop running round like headless chickens and actually spend some time with her. But she refuses and he supports her right to refuse outside help. I know I might be flamed but we’re way past being helpful to get her confidence back we are simply enabling her to withdraw more and more. Taking sis out for a coffee and some fresh air. Thanks everyone

I haven’t experienced this as I’m an only child - and in no way excusing your brother’s behaviour - but he almost sounds like he’s either in denial about your mother’s behaviour, has been so gaslit by her that he can’t see the bigger picture or maybe he can and is being very crafty to avoid sharing the responsibility. It’s very easy to be critical from the sidelines.

I feel yours and your sister’s frustration and send you both a virtual hug. Age tends to bring these individual’s lifelong unpleasantness into sharper focus. Luckily your sister has a fabulously supportive sibling in you and I have so much admiration for both of your strength. Anyone who is judgmental has no idea what it is like having the sort of parents we have had, that given half a chance, will suck you dry. Xx

@JohnPrescottsPyjamas as ever thank you for articulating the situation so well. I think he is in denial and always has had a very different take on Mum. He has over the years acknowledged her terrible behaviour but oddly always defended it at the same time. In fairness to him he is doing things for Mum the issue is really what he is doing is enabling her to continue doing things the way she wants - controlling things her way even though her life is miserable. My sister and I know she is a complex individual and always has been. A tablet is never going to change that. Some therapy may help but Mum has never been able to get on with ordinary people. I can only articulate that as she meets someone she is impressed by and will be full on love bombing talking non stop about hem and what they do/have etc etc and then turns on them when they do not reciprocate. I have had to deal with som many neighbours and family over the years she has simply turned really nasty on. Several times we have pointed those out to our brother but he always makes an excuse that the other person has wronged Mum. the best analogy I can give is that he is like the parent of the school bully who is unable to see their child is unpleasant and blames everyone else, whilst secretly knowing the truth. I am not super up on the whole psychology but there does seem to be some Oedipus complex going on with him and Mum. He was a bit of a troublemaker as a kid, really pushing boundaries but Mum always backed him and always blamed others. Thanks again for listening it does help.

I knew someone once like that .... it was always someone else's fault

She could be lovely, but never, ever took responsibility for anything - always someone else's fault.
(Infact I knew a few people like that) but zero self awareness.
When it effects your life - as it it does - all you can do is let the peace's fall (crash and burn) and then go in and put things in place - cleaner , carer etc.....
You just have to wait for this to happen (we did - though we knew what was coming)
Social service assessment- they were great.
Keep supporting your sister and ignoring your brother's denial- it is just his way of emotionally manipulating you both keeping you enabling your mum. So your mum can control you all.

I cared for both of my parents OP and both had their issues as elderly people do, could be a bit stubborn, but in the end were both very grateful for the care and love provided to them. I miss both of them very much but sometimes feel a sense of freedom and relief. The feeling of having your phone on 24/7, never knowing what the day will bring, feeling guilty about just being alive and younger with some life left.
It is such a challenging time in life, and after reading your posts my heart goes out to you and your sister.
I require some care myself now. I am simply grateful for any assistance I receive from anyone. I am not always easy, but whether it’s the Tesco man or the Amazon delivery driver, to my partners cooking, the cleaner I now have, I accept any help that comes my way.
By turning it away I would be making my own life miserable. I have no idea why anyone would do that.
Your mum sounds like she is punishing you and she’s lucky you stick around at all.
I often talk to friends who are carers, it’s so hard, and nobody wants to think about what it’s like when it’s all over out of sheer guilt.
But I can tell you there is freedom on the other side.

@PeggyMitchellsCameo thank you so much and absolute hats off to you for firstly accepting you sometimes need help and secondly being grateful.

I’ll possibly get flamed with this comment too, but I’ve noticed through the years that sometimes the male mind see things much more simplistically than the female one! As women, we are able to see the complex ‘games and manipulations’ being played by these individuals (maybe because sadly, they’re quite often other women too?) We are also more hardwired to pick up changes in mood too.

My DH has always been incredibly supportive and knew what my mother was about, but he would see things as more black and white and just tell me to ignore it, or tell her x,y or z. If only it was that easy! I would loved to have ignored it, but when she was on the phone creating a drama, it was very difficult at a distance to differentiate between a demand for attention or a genuine crisis as she was very good at ensuring I didn’t always get the whole picture to base a decision on. Your conscience then goes into overdrive; what if she really is ill this time and I’ve dismissed her etc etc.

You have my total sympathy and understanding. Growing up, I thought my mother was an absolute one off, that no one else had a parent like her. I truly hope you finding out that these people aren’t unique and you have a thread like this to vent on with others who get what you mean exactly, gives some sort of comfort. I’m certainly finding it incredibly cathartic to read such similar scenarios , although I wouldn’t wish these experiences on anyone.

@JohnPrescottsPyjamas bravo again. Spot on. I also think knowing our brother he is quite a superficial person openly admitting he knows he has used BS throughout his career to get on. He never actually listens or is present in conversations he is always distracted appearing to have better things to do. The day we moved our Dad to his nursing facility my sister and I had put some personal possessions in his room to make it feel homely. Golden child turned up, spent the time we were there on his phone and was incredibly sharp with everyone. I can see he is possibly also frightened that his parents are at this stage in life but we have asked if we can all sit down and talk out the way to make life less stressful so many times but he just evades the question. We know we can’t fix things and are not necessarily after solutions for our mother just time to sit and realise whether or not she doesn’t want help from a carer/cleaner/meals on wheels service WE cannot carry on as things are. He is currently not engaging with me as he seems to have decided I do not care about our mother. I do care which is why I need help from outside of the family. Nothing I have done, or my sister, or my brother has met with her approval. Nothing at all. As @PeggyMitchellsCameo said why turn help away unless she wants to punish us because her life has not turned out as she wanted - but she made some poor choices which have consequences-why is that now for us to deal with. Sorry another morning rant/vent there. I’m sick of waking up feeling sick about things and now having this conflict between us where my sister and I are questioning if he has a point and we should be doing more. Other than one or both of us moving in I see very little light at the end of the tunnel. Our husbands are very supportive and keep a distance from our brother as they see him as a loose cannon and they could easily end up having a real run in with him. Oh it is such a mess.

I was reading your post , thinking how articulate and understanding you are , and then I read this
where my sister and I are questioning if he has a point and we should be doing more.
and my mouth fell open.
I guess you're so overwhelmed that you're not thinking straight.
No .You should not be doing more.
You know this . And importantly it's not an option as you can't do more.
Please repeat after me .
I'm doing all I can . My brother is out of touch.

Thanks @whatwouldyoudoifisangoutofkey you are correct. You are also correct that we are overwhelmed added to that the outburst from our brother. He has chosen to do what he does for our mother, he has now been doing his way for well over 12 months and there is zero change. Frankly he is enabling her behaviour. I think we just had a moment where we both felt helpless as we did as kids. Mum has always used manipulation to get her own way and I see this as an extension of her life long game playing. It’s hard when we are capable people who could help her but she refuses. I understand that swooping in with suggestions is us imposing on her but there does come a time, and that time is now, where what is going on is unsustainable. Thanks for listening. This site is a life saver at times.

@BlueLegume
Just been chatting to friend / work related.
turns out she was in a similar position to you ,
After the relative died , she was so burnt out / ill she was off work a whole year.
Please look after yourself

Thanks @TammyJones had a WhatsApp message this morning off an old friend who’d bumped into our brother and he’d obviously offloaded how disappointed he is in me in particular not for what I am doing but the fact that ‘BlueLegume just doesn’t seem to care about Mum her priorities are all wrong’. Friend messaged saying ‘so Blue she’s (Mum) is still holding you all to ransom. Thought she might have grown out of that by now.’ Yep.

Horrific day. My mum has passed. Spent nearly two hours with police officers outside my mum's house waiting for the private ambulance to take her.

I phoned my brother to tell him, we got divvied up like furniture in our parents divorce. So not that close. He’s older than me, and remembers so much more than I do.

I’ve found out so many things from him that have made me question my whole childhood.

I just don’t know how to feel. And I think my tears are tears of guilt that somehow I don’t feel more devastated.

Sorry for the ramble, I think I’m still in shock.

@JessiesHuman you've had a difficult day, with revelations on top to make it even harder. I imagine the next few days and weeks will be a rollercoaster. You have no reason to feel guilty, just let the thoughts and feelings come and go. I briefly felt bad for not being sad when my dad died, but I had lost nothing so had nothing to mourn. Look after yourself, be kind to yourself, and ignore opinions.

Ah @JessiesHuman - best wishes.

You’ll get people who have/had good relationships with their parents saying things like, “ahhh, it’ll hit you soon” if you’re not weeping and wailing, or assuming that you must be devastated. Try to let it wash over you and look after yourself (and your DCs if applicable of course).

@JessiesHuman hugs