Appalling behaviour-dressed up as old age-it has to be addressed

[BlueLegume]

Hi all, having followed and contributed to several threads on ‘Elderly Parents’ I want to thank so many of you for helping me look at my/our situation. I won’t name check you just yet but you know who you are. This thread is not to be unpleasant about the elderly who are having a hard time. It is to address a very honest point that my parents have always been difficult. Impossible to discuss anything important with, always known better and having watched them alienate good decent people I am angry that they made no effort in life to do anything other than fun stuff for themselves and now expect me and my siblings to pick up their mess. It seems so many middle aged people have fallen foul of these ‘war babies’ as my mother still refers to her and Dad. Yes I accept they were born at the end of the war and they will have had to live in a post war country. For our mother that is all she talks about. She doesn’t accept they had the boom years post war which she has photo evidence of living it large in the 50s and 60s. She was an incredibly authoritarian mother yet after a few drinks would party all night. Always a case of do as I say not as I do. Now as I approach 60 I am wracked with worry and anxiety because she now ‘can’t cope’. It’s ruining life . I have all the therapy theories and have shared much of it. That said I am mad at the fact I am still dictated to or it feels so by her. Father is in a nursing home after a lot of denial that was what he needed. She will not have any help in the house so it is all falling to us. We are broken. My own family are fed up and rightly so. Selfish as it sounds I did not retire to look after a very unpleasant woman who has never liked me. I appreciate that sounds very bitter.

Mine has been an arse about Christmas too. I think she was game playing because I'd invited her to ours rather than trailing a toddler and small child down to theirs.

I'd explained there was a fully accessible modern hotel about 15 minutes walk away, tops, and the walk was accessible on a mobility scooter too.

She then booked a B&B and then cancelled it because it was up stairs, booked another hotel and cancelled it because it wasn't suitable, then finally booked the accessible hotel.

There was then a big performance about whether or not the accessible hotel was suitable so I went up and walked around it and told her it was. She didn't want to "muck me about" apparently.

Lo and behold, a few days before Christmas, once I'd ordered all the food, DF became "too ill" to travel.

Like an absolute mug I took my family down on Christmas Eve. DF was not any more ill than normal at that point.

I'd taken some food down which "D"M moaned about. She didn't apologise or offer to cover any of the extra food or our rail tickets or anything.

Then they went on holiday a week later.

Looking back I'm really annoyed at myself for going, but it was all set up like DF was going to die imminently so we all had to jump - she did that a lot back then.

That's awful @HoraceGoesBonkers . They just don't want to put themselves out at all. Mine has some fantasy of sitting at home with a stream of adoring visitors coming to see her. Like some beloved grand matriarch.
Making the effort from her side isn't part of that fantasy

@reesewithoutaspoon you have nailed it. I think my mother thought she would be the same yet she never nurtured one friendship or family contact. She just judged, mocked and criticised. So perhaps karma is such a thing but unfortunately its impact on us is awful.

So after years of her saying that she'd never leave her kids 'in the lurch' when she died like her mother did to her. She appears to have done exactly that. She spent years telling me that everything was in place in the event of her death.

We've gone through all the paper work and there is no will and no funeral plan. Years ago she gave me the business card of a solicitor, saying if anything happened to her, that I should call him. Well I did. There is no will.

My brother who has not seen her for two years (despite living close) has basically said that he wants no part of sorting out her affairs and that I can just pop the money into his account once everything is sorted out. FFS.

@reesewithoutaspoon Oh god yes! Mine normally hates making any effort to visit to the point that if she does she turns up stupidly early, which is very wearing, then dashes off as quickly as she can. I stopped going to hers after getting very weary of being pressurised to stay for hours or extend the visit to an overnight one, etc etc; the one time she came to ours she had to run off after 30 minutes. It's fine for her to want to go home but not for everyone else.

At one she travelled 2.5 hours to see an elderly relative (not coincidentally, elderly relative was ill and had pots of cash) and seemed to spend about half an hour there too, being really desperate to leave.

At one point DF got put in a hospital in between were we live and she was really evasive and weird about me visiting him in the hospital, presumably because I didn't have to go and sit in her fucking house.

@JessiesHuman That's rubbish. Is it worth checking with a couple of local funeral directors just in case? They normally have a record of who had a plan (although we once had to deal with a situation where the firm had been bought over and didn't have a record of a plan).

My mother does this. I invite her round out of duty, dread it etc and then she stays half an hour to an hour and then bolts. What is that about? Yet constantly guilt tripping me for not seeing her more often. If I go and visit her it’s excruciating. She either bombards me with lists of stuff that needs to be done or asks me the same questions over and over again or talks about herself in an endless monologue.

@AskingQuestions45 monologue mother here as well, but she always has. She also has never actually properly ‘listened’ so she get half a story which she then embellishes or ‘well I thought that was what they meant’. ‘I thought’ is a regular one. We are way past the having her round to visit but when we did she was always late and always outstayed her welcome. I used to roll my eyes but she also always ran her finger across every surface checking for dust. The irony there being I would have cleaned the house form top to bottom in anticipation.

These recollections could be my mother too! It’s unbelievable how extreme and off the wall they are - so you assume you’re dealing with a really unique personality - but they all sound so uncannily similar.

Christmas was always a time of great emotional stress for me so it’s only since her death I’ve learnt to relax and go with the flow. Her issue was always the food. She had a very healthy appetite, but she’d go through this routine of pretending she wasn’t hungry when dinner was served, or she was suddenly a vegetarian. It was all bollocks because she loved a good roast. Then she’d ask if it had been cooked properly (it’s not as though we regularly went down with food poisoning ) and then push her food around the plate pretending she had the appetite of a sparrow then spend the afternoon hoovering up the quality street and peanuts.

Presents, both Christmas or birthday, was a minefield too. Whatever I got her was never right. She’d actually sulk, or even cry about her gifts we spent so much time trying to get right. The family always got a cheque for £50 so she never put any effort in herself. I even suggested we forget about presents between us as it was such a minefield, but she wouldn’t have it and insisted we continue as, “I love getting presents”

She would invite herself, also outstay her welcome and would always create a drama about something trivial. I’d desperately try and sort it out but she’d then cry and say I’d ruined her visit. What she certainly enjoyed if she caused a row, because she could then play the victim. She used to love to say something really controversial and if anyone of us bit, she would then accuse us of picking on her!

I've put my foot down about Christmas. She wanted us to visit, stay for at least a week (there is no way I could do this without going insane), with me doing all the cooking in her kitchen, whilst she shows off to a parade of visitors and pretends to be a hands on grandparent.

These mothers you all write about all sound totally batshit narcissists and seem to want the attention and fuss on them at all times - it seems it's mainly quite well to do ones too who haven't had to do much most of their lives to get by- I feel sorry for the blokes that were stuck with them

Agree - I worked in Elderly care for many years, and the old people with no visitors and whose friends and family who had cut contact long ago were often malevolent little shits when you got to know them, and their families had cut contact for good reason (obviously I’m not including people who simply had no close family, or who lived far away - I mean people whose whole families refused to have anything whatsoever to do with them any more).

I remember one woman who sweetly beckoned over another patient’s teenage granddaughter (total stranger to her) and whispered in her ear “you are a fat ugly little slut”, and then sat back with a smug smile on her face as the visitor burst into tears. She was also caught emptying her catheter bag into another patient’s water jug, and was only with us because she had been kicked out of her residential home for throwing another resident’s family photo albums in the bin (she had gone through her room to find them). Our psychiatrist saw her, she wasn’t demented or mentally ill, she was just a very evil and unpleasant woman, and had apparently been like that her whole life.

And of course I’ve also know old men who have an extensive forensic history of CSA. You wouldn’t know it to look at them in the waiting room.

OP you will always have randoms who go all misty eyed about sweet little old ladies, but anyone who works in this area will know that nasty middle aged people grow up into nasty old people. They don’t miraculously turn into sweet old grannies and grandpas when they turn 70.

@AskingQuestions45 the bolting is insane.

I think I posted upthread but I'd agreed to meet her at a specific time because my DS had a swimming lesson, she phoned the second she knew the lesson was over and I was heading a dripping DD into the showers. She'd already tried to go into the cafe more than half an hour early, found it was shut so went to another one and sat in that instead. Handily for her she picked a cafe (this is in a big town so plenty of choice) that was about to shut and clearly expected me to get DD changed and out in record time so she could leave. I took my time.

Another time I met her in a different, self service place. She'd been angsting about me letting her know what I wanted to eat but when I got there, on time, not only had she bought the food but had already started eating.

It's like a bizarre rule in her head that everyone should do things earlier than agreed and she pulls this shit nearly every single time and has done for years.

My sister- the one who was undergoing cancer treatment- has agreed to drive her somewhere so she turned up 2 hours early and expected lunch.

It's just so mind bogglingly rude! The last time she came over I found myself warning her repeatedly that I wasn't available earlier, but then she sometimes sulks about that too.

Thankfully I'm done now.

And yy to the fantasy world, presents not being up to scratch and not sharing medical information.

It’s good to see that comment from Saschka, who is someone who works with the elderly. I’ve found that social workers, doctors and carers “get” that I want minimal involvement and that I must have my reasons for it. To paraphrase Skinner and Baddiel, they know the score, they’ve seen it all before.

But my mother’s cleaner, who is mainly a commercial cleaner and has no professional experience with older people that I know of, thinks that she’s some apple-cheeked goddess and will cheerfully chat to me about how garrulous and funny the old woman is. Thankfully I’m quite assertive and can steer the convo back to which cleaning products are running out or whatever the reason for her call to me was. She has taken the hint I think, because now she texts me if she needs to say/ask something, as opposed to ringing.

Yes, it can be tiring, managing other people’s well-meaning assumptions and expectations about how you’re supposed to feel and behave. We’ve seen a bit of that earlier on in this thread.

@Saschka good observation

@HoraceGoesBonkers I'm nodding my head along with your post.
If she comes to mine she can't get away quick enough.
She will make excuses why I have to go to hers and then it's bloody impossible get out. At one point she was hijacking the local postie ( I live round the corner from her) and taking my letters and parcels "to save him a job" so I would have to go to collect them.
I had to tell him to stop because she was just using it as a reason for me to go there.
I hate going to hers, you don't even get a drink.

I'm amazed other ones do the bolting/scuttling off as we call it. It's so peculiar I thought it was just my one! Oddly it was one of the behaviours that made me and other people twig that there was something wrong and then the rest of it started falling into place.

It's gone on since ever I can remember and I'd always gotten the impression DF insisted on it but it clearly wasn't all down to him and DM is if anything worse by herself. She's obsessed with leaving early.

They once made a fuss about leaving my reception aged DC's birthday party early before the cake and song because they had to "beat the rush". It was a weekend, they were retired and going on a self catering holiday a relatively short drive away, and it was summer so not dark.

If we'd done that with one of their birthday parties, which went on for much longer, we'd never have heard the end of it.

@BlueLegume meant to say, mine is weird about health and care professionals too.

Sometimes she will go out her way to try and impress them even when (especially when?) It's really weird and she shouldn't expect to be the centre of attention.

Other times she does absolutely cringe stuff and has hung around the health centre trying to pounce on the GP. She also had a row with another professional who refused to refer my Dad for an intervention she wanted but any sane person could see was quite high risk and stressful for someone who is very frail, and doesn't have long to live anyway.

@HoraceGoesBonkers our mother was beyond strange when Dad first went into hospital before the admission to a nursing facility. She took an instant dislike to the ward clerk, who was lovely just very efficient, busy and not there to listen to my mother’s monologues. She took a liking to a care assistant who was good at saying the right things to her and Dad, like, ‘oooh aren't you a good looking couple’. She then was so rude to the nurses and the doctor that they had to take us on one side and say if her behaviour continued they would have to stop her visiting. She did not listen to anything any clinicians said. We had a a period of about 4 weeks where I spent pretty much every day getting calls from her saying ‘they are discharging him today’. They weren’t they were just vaguely telling Dad that they would ‘look at options’ when he got distressed about wanting to go home. They explained he would have some respite/reablement for about 6 weeks and assessments to make decisions as to the next step. She had already been told at this point that he needed full nursing care. But she would not listen. We had no way of making her make sense and she roped our brother in ordering a hospital style bed which was utterly ridiculous. At this point Dad needed at least 2 people to get him out of bed for a shower. She was utterly in a fantasy world that she wanted ‘to at least try and have him home’. I understand these things are difficult but we were 2 years into knowing how unwell and how complex his needs were. Utterly delusional, but that is Mum. All my life when she doesn’t like something or a situation she digs her heels in, buries her head in the sand, almost like a toddler and has generally then got her own way with someone acquiescing to what she wants. Over complicates everything.

@Saschka my M has had 3 hospital stays for breaking bones ( despite which she now refuses carers, doing any physio, or to wear an alarm. But very overtly wears 2 do not resuscitate bracelets).
The first admission the family took turns in sleeping in the visitors room. Lord knows what the staff thought of that. I, embarrassingly, also slept one night on her floor. Mainly because I thought she might be upset about my nieces funeral the next day. As if.
The second she was asked to leave early. For throwing her soiled nappy at a 'nasty' nurse. Absolutely gleeful about that , because she'd worked out how to go home early. Cue emergency carer assessment. Then backtracking about that couldn't possibly be 'down to her behaviour 'No family sleep overs for that one.
The third one , few visited. I drove hours , twice, to be treated like a servant. I was there for her neeeds. My bird feeders might need filling ! ( last time I'll be rushing over if I receive the call ) . Eventually the horrible doctors 'threw everyone out of her ward and made them sleep overnight in the basement ,before discharging them' without notice. She cancelled the carers , including the one she decided to pay for, because she had long term physio. Eventually he told her he had to 'move back to chzeckoslovakia'

Despite this, she has a friend who takes her out for a walk every day. She can do a great lovely old lady impression
Maybe she could adopt her.

Edit..I'll not be rushing over

@BlueLegume We also went through a long period of getting garbled information about my DF. I think I posted earlier about the hospital admission merry go round where she wanted him at home but didn't actually want to look after him so would get him back for a few days to get him readmitted. Every time this happened she seemed to expect a big flurry of family activity a that had occurred when there was an actual emergency.

We had an episode during this when he went in and mum herself asked for me to write to social work to find him a care home place (she also really loved getting people to write letters on her behalf to various people but it was all about creating a fuss rather than getting a result). So with some relief I got in touch with social work.

A couple of days later DM was telling me and my sister he was going to get put on medication to help him sleep better so he might get sent home, and that actually she wanted him home.

I felt like banging my head off the wall! Thankfully he didn't get discharged again. The whole thing was such a massive waste of resources and time.

@HoraceGoesBonkers months of ‘I think I will try and have him home’ when it was clearly not possible. On reflection it was nothing about Dad she just wanted the attention and boy did she get attention.

Yup. I ended up found it completely sickening how DF got weaponised for attention. It was quite clearly not in his interests to be batted backwards and forwards between hospital and home.

I think it's been helpful writing some of this down on the thread. I think if it had been a case of things happening in a linear manner - the various issues we had as a family, DF's illnesses and my mum's ingratitude and attention seeking - then it would have been cope-able with. But not with everything happening at once in a fairly compressed time of about 3 years. I realised that either my physical and mental health was going to under or I had to change how I responded

I'd have preferred it if my mum could accept boundaries but she couldn't and caused me so much stress repeatedly doing unreasonable things she'd been asked not to, so ultimately I could only get out.

This time last year I could understand why I was struggling with it all but was getting pushed into doing horrid Christmas meet ups I just found draining. It's taken me therapy, posting on here and talking to friends to try and unpack but I'm definitely in a much better place than l was.

I've still got a bit of an ongoing tie until my DF dies but I can't really do much about that.