Appalling behaviour-dressed up as old age-it has to be addressed

[BlueLegume]

Hi all, having followed and contributed to several threads on ‘Elderly Parents’ I want to thank so many of you for helping me look at my/our situation. I won’t name check you just yet but you know who you are. This thread is not to be unpleasant about the elderly who are having a hard time. It is to address a very honest point that my parents have always been difficult. Impossible to discuss anything important with, always known better and having watched them alienate good decent people I am angry that they made no effort in life to do anything other than fun stuff for themselves and now expect me and my siblings to pick up their mess. It seems so many middle aged people have fallen foul of these ‘war babies’ as my mother still refers to her and Dad. Yes I accept they were born at the end of the war and they will have had to live in a post war country. For our mother that is all she talks about. She doesn’t accept they had the boom years post war which she has photo evidence of living it large in the 50s and 60s. She was an incredibly authoritarian mother yet after a few drinks would party all night. Always a case of do as I say not as I do. Now as I approach 60 I am wracked with worry and anxiety because she now ‘can’t cope’. It’s ruining life . I have all the therapy theories and have shared much of it. That said I am mad at the fact I am still dictated to or it feels so by her. Father is in a nursing home after a lot of denial that was what he needed. She will not have any help in the house so it is all falling to us. We are broken. My own family are fed up and rightly so. Selfish as it sounds I did not retire to look after a very unpleasant woman who has never liked me. I appreciate that sounds very bitter.

Hello op, this is so relatable, except my mum is actually nice - just infuriating

The whole 'finding a reason why the solution offered to the problem articulated cannot possibly work' , I now have a new strategy

Me: So, this is your problem?
Mum: yes
Me: you have 3 choices: solution a OR solution b OR do nothing and keep the problem. Which would you like to do?
Mum: <wheels out lots of reasons why a and b won't work >
Me: ok so you are choosing to do nothing and keeping your problem. Ok. I'll leave you with that then. Please don't mention it to me again , or I will remind you of this conversation and that you have chosen to keep the easily solvable problem. If you change your mind, just let me^ know. It just to say, you are choosing to keep <insert problem here>^
Mum: well there is no need to be so rude about it. Oh ok I'll go with option a then, but I'm not happy about it <insert stream of grumbles, excuses, ranting here>
^
Me: Exit and make tea /have large gin^

There are much longer versions of this conversation, but the essence is there. She will also then claim victory and expect plaudits for having been so clever as to have come up with said solutions when adopted 'I don't know^ why anyone didn't do this sooner, it's marvellous!' 😂

Seriously though you are not alone, look up mobilise.co.uk for support. If you are lucky and your local council has fully subscribed there's even more help available in that site too.

My mum lives miles away and is getting more frail, needs more support but doesn't want to move closer to any of us as she couldn't possibly ever live in a flat. Fine, but I've explained clearly that we can't drop everything to sort out things for her. She has to organise services to do that -and pay for them. Eg she needed an urgent prescription the other day. Pharmacy couldn't deliver, neighbours were all out or busy, she wouldn't get in a cab, or ask cabbie to pick it up. Wouldn't use deliveroo or whatever. So told her she'd need to pay for one of her carers to do it. That I wasn't going to drive 6 hours to do it as I'm working and it's just nuts. That this is one of the consequences of choosing to not move. That she will have to have other local emergency procedures in place. She sorted it.

I felt awful but it's the reality. If she'd had a heart attack and was in hospital that would be a real emergency that I'd drop things for, of course, but it's not. It's just inconvenient life stuff that gets more complicated as you get older and can't drive, fall over or are just frail. I sound so hard, but if I didn't do this I'd have a breakdown. Almost did. Have learned from that.
^

@BlueLegume I've just seen your latest post, and my approach may not work given the extreme nature of your mums manipulation. That must be so hard.

I do think that sometimes you just have to take a different approach. Have you got POA? If yes then could you arrange a daily call from a carer -paid for by mum - to check in on her. If she refuses entry they can escalate to social services. If you don't have POA then call social services or get local police to do a welfare check in the circumstances you previously described.

I hate to say it but if she chooses to live in squalor without food, then you need to let her. It is her choice. It may take an 'outsider' like a social worker or police officer to talk sense into her. Yes, you will 'look awful' to them , but you know the truth. You know who she is, and you know that you can't and should not expect to sacrifice your life for her poor life choices. It's not your job, not your responsibility. Be clear about how you can help, offer solutions to her issues but then leave her to it. She's a grown adult. An old one but as long as she's competent, it's her choice to live how she wants.

@ooooohnoooooo just in reference to your first post it sounds a really sensible approach offering the solutions or remain the same (a sign of madness). We probably do that but somewhat half heartedly as we are 3 very different siblings. Older sister is incredibly kind and very much a listener, I am the middle child and possibly a little impatient at silly nonsense behaviours which are hard work. Younger brother is a curious mix of contradictions. One minute he has no patience with her or us. Next minute he is telling us we don’t do enough. Next minute accuses us of taking over and disrupting her ‘routine’….of which when we ask what the routine is he just shouts at us. Finding nursing facility for our Dad (he had a DoLs put on him )largely fell to me in 2023. My sis did come with me to visit the only place able to offer Dad a space but she had commitments so I did the paperwork and got the room ready with some personal stuff for Dad. We checked in with our brother before we committed and he was incredibly dismissive with a ‘just go with it’ why are you calling me attitude. In terms of solutions etc….
For example - broken appliance - me: I’ll buy a new one to replace it. Mum: they don’t make that one anymore. Me: I will just buy the newest version. Mum: I don’t think so. Just barrier after barrier after barrier. FYI the appliances all work fine she just gets extra moments of time randomly pointing at things as we are about to leave and doing the big wide eyed ‘poor old me’ face.
Yes we have POA although as I understand whilst she still has capacity it is largely pointless.
She is not exactly living in squalor but when I and my sister did do cleaning for her she told us it wasn’t up to her standards so we are not doing that again until it is absolutely necessary. You are correct we need to let things slide to rock bottom really. This sort of happened last year when we had a social prescriber made available. Mum refused to engage and when I spoke with the SP she was incredibly candid telling me ‘Blue Legume you do realise she sees you and sis/bro as available to her and she wants you to look after her’. She even let me know that I could claim carers allowance to help with the expenses as long as I was there 35 hours a week I would be eligible. For context that would mean being there 5 hours x7 days a week - adding travel on of an hour there and an hour home that would be a 45 hour plus week for £81.90 as I understand. Plus the stress of being with her. Oh and the fact I have a husband and busy life.

@ooooohnoooooo thanks for the link to mobilise.co.uk it looks great and I am setting some time aside later to have a look- even if it just helps me/us and Mum is not prepared to engage with what is on offer. Anything to make it feel less isolating being ‘us/me’. Thanks

Thank you for trying to understand @Bobbie12345!

I think as well, it's:
This is how life has always been. I grew up like this, it's normal. You don't know any different or what life could be like. It's been a gradual process over years of growing understanding and realising that most people didn't grow up like this. I only ended up putting boundaries in place to protect my child, I find it incredibly difficult to do it for myself. I only managed it after several years of counselling and some training at work in dealing with difficult people.

And also, even if you put boundaries in the pressure from those around you who don't know the situation (friends of the elderly person) or don't care they just want you to deal with it (social services) is immense. "But she's your Mum..." Mine had an emergency admission to hospital. I couldn't go as couldn't drive for medical reasons, no other practical way to get there. Goldenballs sibling decided couldn't be bothered to go. I was the one who got the phone calls and messages from her friends about why wasn't someone there and what was I going to do about it?! Social services will just assume you can abandon your child, partner, job and mortgage to go and become a carer.

Mine isn't anywhere near as bad as Bluelegume's plus I live at a distance which does make boundaries easier. Mine has stopped the not answering the phone trick after it resulted not in one of her children doing a 6 hour round trip to check on her, but putting one of her friends out by asking them to do a 30 min round trip to check!

@Bobbie12345 this thread I think is for people who are trying to help their elderly parents with whom they have difficult relationships.

We try to help them because despite the difficult relationship they are in need. It causes pain and upset because the parent continues to be difficult and often abusive despite you trying to help.

You are posting as if you are bemused that we continue to try and help our difficult parents. Surely you have heard of emotionally abusive partners, domestic abuse,sexual abuse etc etc where the person experiencing the abuse stays and continues to tolerate the abuse. This isn't a unique situation it is common in society.

It is not our job to try to explain to you or try to get you to understand why saying no and walking away isn't easy. It is complex and multi factorial.

This thread is for women who "get" it, who don't have to look for the positives or justify continuing the difficult relationship. I for one am not going to waste my time explaining the many, complex reasons that I continue to help my very difficult mother. You could easily do a Google search yourself. Be glad that you haven't experienced an abusive and toxic parent.

Thanks @EmotionalBlackmail @Lexy70 i smiled to myself a little as I’d realised I’d fallen into old habits in trying to “explain myself” to @Bobbie12345 - very typical of me. And yes this thread is a safe space to share our experiences and thoughts in tricky circumstances with old emotions surfacing.

@BlueLegume JADE

We don't need to justify, argue,defend or explain to anyone

Much love x

This exactly. Thank you for such a succinct and relatable post.

With parents like these, we have no comparison of what ‘normal’ is until we leave home and experience more standard family dynamics through a partner or a close friend. It’s then compounded by well meaning outsiders who assume things are very black and white and to them it looks like a vulnerable parent isn’t receiving appropriate support from their adult child, a parent who has also only shown the charming and ‘innocent’ side to these outsiders, not the unreasonable, cruel and manipulative side.

This further adds to the feelings of guilt because we have become people pleasers from an early age in order to survive and diffuse the unpredictability of the moods we have had to live with. We are also programmed as children by these parents not to complain or confide in others about what goes on behind closed doors, and like any other form of abuse, there is a strong inexplicable loyalty to this code of silence. How often do we hear others say, “Why didn’t they just walk away?” If only it was that easy.

@EmotionalBlackmail You also so correct in saying having your own child was a watershed moment. I think having my first born daughter was too. As soon as I gave birth to her, my mother started to talk about her in the same way as she did about me. She talked about how to dress her, how to feed her, how to discipline her, and it brought it all back. I hadn’t asked or didn’t want her support or direct involvement but she started to cross boundaries almost immediately, so I learnt to be firm on my daughter’s behalf. Ironically, I’ve always been so much better defending and standing up for my children than myself!

@BlueLegume If she refuses to answer the phone, ask for a welfare check. They absolutely hate it, because they don't want other people to see that side of them, it's all about public appearance.
I had to do it with my mother after months of veiled threats and then not answering the phone or door because she was pissed off we hadn't jumped to her summons.
She was mortified when it happened and furious that people in authority might think she was ' mad'. But she never did it again.

@reesewithoutaspoon that is such a great suggestion. I do actually have the name of a lovely SW who was allocated to my Dad. Will speak to my siblings.

You just call 101 and ask for a welfare check. They'll triage it depending on how urgently they view the situation.

Goodness, I wish I’d have thought of this when my mother was alive! She would have reacted in EXACTLY the same way!

Our two sound scarily so similar!

Yeah, they do sound similar @JohnPrescottsPyjamas classic narcissists. I'm at the point where she's just an unpleasant old lady I'm related to and have to manage for a few more years. She no longer gets under my skin. I feel nothing.
As awful as it sounds I hope that whatever eventually takes her is quick because she would be a nightmare if she got to the position where she needed additional help.

Oh, a quick tip if they are pretending not to answer the phone.
If she's on WhatsApp. you can open WhatsApp click on their name and wait a few seconds. It will then put a message next to their name at the top of the screen saying "Last seen today at xx:xx".
Me and sis call it our daily death check.

I have a 92 year old aunt- wife of my father's brother- who has no children or other nephews or nieces that live here. She has always been selfish and manipulative. She is now alone, blind and has severe mobility issues caused by scoliosis and osteoporosis. I agreed to help her during the pandemic when my uncle died.
She is one of the most manipulative, selfish, dishonest people I have ever met and I have had enough. She lives in an assisted care place where she has her own flat but carers on site who go in 4 times a day. She tells them lies, says nasty things about me, exaggerates her illnesses, rings 111 regularly, dramatises everything, reduces her 81 year old sister to tears every week, is utterly deluded, demanding and downright rude. Nothing ever suits her, she complains about everyone and everything.
Today, she rang to say 'Just to let you know and I don't want you to worry but I am feeling very unwell and am going to bed.'
I said 'Ok. Hope you feel better soon.'
She said ' I doubt that will be the case but I don't want the Dr called- there is nothing to be done. I haven't eaten for days now. I am just going to bed. I don't want you to worry though. Goodbye.' Then hung up.
She does not realise I can read the notes from every carer call on the app. An hour later she ate salmon, new potatoes and broccoli for tea and was listening to a talking book in her sitting room. The carer left her with a chocolate pudding a cup of tea and 3 custard creams.
Last week she told the carers I had shouted at her - I had not even visited her.
Yesterday she rang her sister wailing that no one would cut her finger nails and she was in 'agony' because they are so long. She said the carers had refused. It was all entirely untrue and the carer had filed her nails for her.
It is all attention-seeking behaviour and I am fed up with it.
She told 111 her 'family have just dumped me here and do nothing for me.'
I try to be empathetic because of her age and conditions but she is just unpleasant and always has been.
According to GP- no cognitive issues.
PS Have just checked the app and she is now in bed- the carer went to give her her medication and she asked for two slices of toast and marmalade and a cup of tea. She has had 6 slices of toast and marmalade today plus two cooked meals but told me she has not eaten for days.

I can confess I felt nothing when she died. Just the end of an era. Is it terrible to admit that I shed far more tears last week after having my beloved cat PTS than I did at the loss of my own mother?

Sorry to hear about your cat. No it doesn't sound terrible. Why should you mourn the loss of someone who never showed you concern or affection and only made your life harder. Surely that's a normal response.

Not at all. Pets give us unconditional love and companionship. I'm sorry your cat died.

Yes, I agree with the pets comments. 😔

I'm so sorry about the loss of your cat. That's completely understandable feeling like that, there is nothing like the unconditional love and comfort from a furry friend plus having to take the decision to PTS, so hard even though it's the right thing to do.

@LuluBlakey1 wow, again I find myself nodding along to a fresh post outlining behaviour I have experienced for as long as I can recall. the calls telling you something quite worrying along with the ‘we don’t want to be a burden or worry you’. The old ‘I haven’t eaten/slept/seen anyone on rinse and repeat. I have two neighbours who are 10 years older than my mother and both widows with their grown up kids living in the USA and Australia. They are fantastic. They meet very day at 10ish and walk to the local park cafe for coffee. They then meet again at 5 ish and walk to the local pub and are known to have a glass of wine and sometimes a bar snack. They are regular users of the local library. They are lovely people both in their 90s. @JohnPrescottsPyjamas great post again re your pet and sorry that happened but a great comment. I worry as our mother has no cognitive issues after many blood tests, scans and consultations she may have another 15 to 20 years left - the stress she creates is awful. Essentially she has pressed pause on all our lives. I understand we need to care for our parents to some degree but when they have been unpleasant rude and entitled it feels like a real blow to know at nearly 60 I now have responsibility for a toddler who will never grow up. Love the people on here who sympathise. It really helps. My mother had a fantastic time in her 50 - 75 years, travelled the world, told everyone what she thought of them because’I just say it like it is’, minimal interaction in terms of childcare for her grandchildren - quote ‘I haven’t worked all my life to run around after your kids’….one she didn’t work she was a housewife and two we never asked her for help. Only our brother expected her help for his kids my sister and I both sent our kids to nursery.

@BlueLegume When my aunt was more mobile she was still difficult- she caused awful problems for my uncle throughout his married life with her by telling lies about his brothers and sisters, emotional blackmail, moods and tantrums. I knew all of that but had not seen it first hand.
I put her behaviours down to age /anxiety at first but I see them so clearly now. I have tried really hard to 'grey' them out and not react but I find her unbearable.

She will be fine as long as everyone is doing what she wants. As soon as what she wants is not happening, the drama, manipulation and lies start. I have watched her throw her self sideways as she was sitting on a sofa and 'pretend' sob into a cushion, making wailing/sobbing noises and saying 'Oh I am such a nuisance. Everyone would be better off if I was dead'.
I didn't react to it and said calmly 'Why are you pretending to sob and cry?'
She sat up immediately, dry-eyed and said aggressively 'I'm not'.
I said 'Well, you are- you aren't crying, you are just making crying noises, there is not a single tear and you've stopped straight away. So what's the drama about?'
Her sulky reply. 'You are being nasty to me asking me questions.'
I had asked her (nicely) what she had done with £80 overnight when she does not go out. She had rang demanding she was given £150 'immediately' as she was 'a pauper'. She'd had £80 the previous day. Turned out she had spent it in the cafe they have there and still had £50 of it that she had hidden then rang up saying she had no money. The truth was she didn't want to tell the truth, she just wanted attention.
It was amazing to see her 'act'. I wanted to laugh. DS2 used to do that when he was 3 and 4.
There are times she is a frail, vulnerable apparently quite nice old lady but that is for strangers and as much an act as the dramas. Her sister and I know the real person.

She says every phone call/visit :
'No one comes to see me. Of course I don't have any real family.' (This is to upset her sister.)
'The carers are horrible. They are not real carers, just glorified cleaners'. (They are incredible carers.)
'I haven't eaten for days.' (She eats at least one hot meal and pudding every day, two or three slices of toast at breakfast and either another hot meal or soup and a sandwich, plus protein drinks, a constant stream of biscuits, sweets and chocolate- all recorded on the app)

She tells continual lies:
' XXXXXX (her sister) won't give me my bank card and is withholding my money'. (She tells this to anyone. She has her bank card and has £150 in cash whenever she needs it.Never less than £50 in her purse.)
'I haven't had my medication- again. No one has been to look after me.' (Every visit and tablet is recorded on the app)
'My niece (me)is unkind to me and I'm so upset.' (This is said crying to carers. She means 'My niece asked me a question I didn't like or challenged me about my rudeness/lying and I don't like that)
'I am just ringing to tell you I have lost complete use of my legs.I am completely incapacitated and bed-ridden. I don't know what will happen now.' (This call happens at least twice weekly, and she then walks down to the cafe for her lunch.)
'I am very ill, I can't walk/breathe/am in awful pain and need a Dr.' (She persists and takes to her bed moaning until the care manager rings the GP and then she gets up and goes down to the cafe for lunch/coffee and forgets she is ill and when the Dr/paramedic arrives someone has to find her and there is no treatment needed)
'My phone/microwave/radio is broken and I need you to come along and fix it now or get me a new one.' (It has been unplugged).
'I need a new bed/sofa/dining table. You'll have to get one for me this week' (I ignore this completely or just say 'No I am not doing that. You'll have to find someone else to do that.' She does not need any of those things- she wants me to run round after her.)
'XXXX (another resident) has been nasty to me and says I am not allowed to sit in some of the seats in the lounge.' (She tells the Care Manager, cries pathetically. It always turns out that people just don't want her near them and have told her the seat is for a friend of theirs.)
'I need to discuss something very important with you, can you come along now. I don't want to say it over the phone.' (I say no. It is always in the evening and there is never actually anything she needs to discuss- when I have gone it has been cushion covers or jam or something like that.)
'Just to let you know, I think I am dying so we probably won't speak again. I am in bed . Don't come. I just want to sleep.' (Says this to her sister, then won't answer the phone and the app records her having her supper and listening to talking books half an hour later).

If I try to talk to her about any of her behaviour she creates more drama.She has thrown things at me and shouted at me and fake-sobbed.

I wish I had never got involved and offered to help. I am seriously considering walking away, resigning from having Power of Attorney and leaving her to it. I really would not care if I never heard a word about her again. I have actually discussed it with the social worker and am considering filling in the firm to do it and just walking away.

I no longer ask her to our house.

@LuluBlakey1 completely understand every bit of your post. If I didn’t know better because you hold POA for her I would think you were one of my cousins writing about our mother. The ‘acting’ never stops. Acting sweet and charming when it suits. Acting the victim or martyr when it suits. the need to ‘discuss something now’…..I had a few health issues several years ago, nothing I wanted to share particularly and all solvable. Mum decided she wanted to apply for Attendance Allowance for Dad. She insisted I get the paperwork, insisted I personally went to their house and filled it in. When I explained I wouldn’t be able to as I couldn’t drive for a week or so she put my Dad on the phone, who said to me ‘We aren’t asking you to come over we are telling you to come over’. Idiot that I am I did it as I couldn’t bear listening to her wailing in the background saying ‘(Dad’s name) BlueLegume is so selfish she won’t help me fill the forms in so I can get AA. I only need it because ‘you’ (Dad) are so useless’. I got the train in the end. She then acted out the most awful scene telling me about some inappropriate things about Dad which were wholly irrelevant to the application but were demeaning to him and she clearly wanted the attention that he was not really much use to her any longer. It was awful. The application was granted pretty quickly so I suggested some changes in the house using the money so Dad was safer - handrails, ramps, stairlift etc. She said ‘no I will save the money for when things get worse’. Made no adjustments just pocketed the money.
Fake sobbing and tears on tap have always been her USP. As a kid she told me/us things like ‘you’re killing me’…..we were just kids. As teens ‘you’ll be the death of me…we were just teenagers. As adults ‘ you’ve got your own lives so you aren’t interested in us’…..true we had our own lives but those lives we had to live dancing on egg shells in between her various dramas drawing us all back to her next act.
What I would say is if you feel POA is too much do resign from it. I rue the day I agreed but am wary of appearing to create a drama myself by stepping back.
Everything you wrote about the lies about others to garner sympathy resonated loud and clear. In some ways I am pleased our mother has exposed her true identity to everyone. I have had nearly 60 years of the charlatan. Again lovely people on here and a place to vent for those with similar experiences. It is gruelling and as I see it my life is currently on pause.

My mum still tries to pit us siblings against each other. She was successful with it when we were younger because she was our mum and believed her.
I would be regalled with stories about how my sister was mean and cruel to her, how she had had gifts thrown back in her face etc. she was sneaky though. If I said I would have a word with sister she would insist I didn't because it would cause trouble, sister would hate her more,it would fracture the family. Begging and pleading for me not to mention it. Making me promise I wouldn't, doing the whole woe is me I will just bear it because I'm such a better person.
I now know that's because my sisters version of events would be different. And would expose her lies and exaggeration.
Fortunately we have repaired our relationship as adults and are very close, so we warn each other about what she is saying, only visit together if we can help it and remove her ability to sew discord.
She also does the whole you have to come and help with these forms immediately. It's the main reason I got POA because she refuses to use online banking and when she can no longer drive I am not going to be back and forward to the bank every time she wants a bill paying or to transfer money in person. I'm taking that ability to control my time away from her before she can abuse that avenue.
It's like being in an ongoing battle trying to predict her next move and heading her off at the pass