Unreasonable mother

[Fusby]

I wondered what other people think of this? My mother is soon to be 89, she is still fairly mobile (gardens/walks/drives) but needs to rest more, is on a lot of heart medication, suffers from a debilitating bad back which is becoming more and more frequent and she is extremely deaf. She is a widow, owns her property and has no financial concerns. The problem is that she is still living in the house my siblings and I grew up in (I'm 58) and she cannot cope with it - the large garden and large house which is in a poor state of repair and now requires a complete roof replacement. She cannot hear on the phone and has been naive and employed cowboy tradesmen who knock on her door and fleece her. Despite being well off she is also very tight fisted and refuses to pay a gardener or for help in the house. As well as the dodgy roof, parts of the house are dangerous - ie steps down into the garage, garden etc. My siblings and I are all in agreement that she should move to a property more suitable for someone of her age and have pointed out that we have her welfare and safety at heart and that life is only going to get harder for her. If she moves while she is still relatively well then she can choose her property herself, which furniture to take and assuming the property is suitable for an elderly person, then she can probably stay independent for longer. She has so far refused to move and although she has emotional attachments to the house, we also believe that there is an element of snobbery involved. She refuses point blank to look at retirement complexes and says she doesn't like bungalows or flats. Everything came to a head recently when she rang us in tears, saying that water was coming through her bedroom ceiling. My husband went over and had a look at the strategically placed buckets which were no longer coping. My siblings and I have always supported our Mum but we work full time and cannot be there 24/7. Given her age and challenges, we pointed out last night that she really must move and if she remains in denial and continues to refuse, then we will leave her to it (ie we will stop enabling her by helping in the garden, house etc). She responded by saying that she will get her roof replaced on her own and does not need our assistance. Bearing in mind that she is extremely deaf, communication with the roofers and scaffolders will be almost impossible and she will misunderstand a lot. We have agreed to pass on details of a decent roofer but she will manage everything and will not involve us. She has always been obstinate, arrogant and the big "I am" and continued to say she wants to stay in the property for as long as she can. What do you think?

Thank you for your post - but we have tried all that already with no luck.

Thank you so much - you clearly know where I'm coming from. I love my mum but she can be manipulative, selfish, difficult and unfortunately, it is "all about her". Yes she has lost her judgment - my siblings and I have noticed that over the last few years. My mum is refusing to go anywhere near a McCarthy & Stone retirement flat - even to rent. She can be a bit of a snob and said she couldn't possibly live anywhere where they play bingo as what would people think? There is no reasoning with her I'm afraid. We are currently providing her with details of potential properties in good condition and suitable for elderly people in the hope that a bit of encouragement will do the trick.

Thank you for your response - it sounds like your mum is manipulative and attention seeking, mine is the same. I am beginning to understand why very old age is seen as a second childhood!!

Yes, if bought new, the properties can be very expensive - especially if they have a bistro or on site manager. The monthly service charges are megabucks. My godmother lives in one though and for her it has been an excellent life investment as oppose to financial) - she is really happy there.

Fusby. There are ‘posh’ people in McCarty and Stone developments. You can only move in with money. Mum’s complex was over £3k per month rental! There are no poor people in there. Local Authorities don’t fund them. You have to have £££ to buy or rent. She will be with her tribe. Lots of people just like her who state they were managing just fine and it’s only their children who persuaded them to move into one.

Sounds like excuses, excuses, excuses.

Buy early and when you can, rent at 80 plus or buy secondhand. They won’t be trashed.

Had you bothered to read (and understand) my posts, you would realise that we are not stopping our support of our mother. I however have bothered to read your post, where the world is all about you and where you're not going to compromise for anything or anyone, no matter what the situation is. Luckily for me I don't have the misfortune of being in your life, so will never experience the pleasure and relief of withdrawing from it.

The elderly won’t rent though. Want to buy preferably brand new and at late 80’s. Madness. Mum was guided by me. I did my research. Many others didn’t.

Thank you Nannydoodles - another realistic and common sense answer.

My thoughts exactly.

Thank you - my Mum's already been in hospital with her heart issue and she has an extremely painful bad back (on and off) so at times can do nothing at all. We are only thinking of her welfare and safety and trying to include everything she loves to do in any future home. She is very stubborn and it is very difficult and yes - very stressful.

I have to say that Growly has no idea how she is going to cope in later life.

Mum lived independently for years but in the end her judgement went. She made reckless decisions or when something broke just left it You might think you would just get it fixed but when your brain isn’t working the way it used to you will struggle. It happens to us all. You are not going to be any different from everyone else.

You can withdraw from people who don’t do what you want them too but I promise you you will struggle,

My mother recently said to me that she never thought she'd end up like this. Quite honestly I'm not sure what she did expect.

If you're fortunate enough to live to old age, you're either going to drop down dead one day, or gradually fade through age or illness.

What people often don't realise is the sheer number of people who simply can't manage on their own. Most of them are invisible to all but their families and health care professionals. So anybody maintaining that they'll be absolutely fine rattling around on their own in an unsuitable home, whatever anyone else thinks, is likely to have a bit of a shock.
It actually quite worries me that there are people who think like this. I've seen the fallout at work, and it's not pretty. And I have also met more overtired, overstressed and generally burnt out family members than I can count. Usually, but not always, middle aged daughters or nieces with jobs and families of their own.

So true!!! She will indeed be with her tribe and the bingo would be a scream, especially after a glass or two of wine.............

And the quiz. Mum loved that even though she felt she didn’t get many right.

Winter. Yep. Mum in the end wanted a pill to grab back 30 years. She always hoped that she would just go to sleep one night and never wake up. Reality is she could have been there for days. She didn’t live near me whilst living independently,

We don’t imagine what we would be like at 85 plus. Its frightening,

My mum was also extremely stubborn and difficult. She's no longer with us and it's a blessed relief. Sometimes you have to resort to reading the riot act or walking away.

@Fusby Thank you for your charming reply. Despite your assertions, I have read all of your posts, and all the others on this thread. I can assure you that caring for my mum over a period of six years when she needed considerable support did involve a great deal of compromise, compassion, love, stress, hard work, and hours and hours of time while running my own home and working full time. Very little during that period in my life was 'all about me' but I always tried my hardest to treat my mum with the dignity and respect she deserved and did not try to cajole her into doing things that she did not want to do, such as leave her home. In the end it was taken out of my hands and after a seven week stay in hospital during the pandemic, the hospital and social care would only discharge her to a care home, where despite the excellent facilities and lovely carers, she hated every second, and barely left her room until she had a stroke and ended up back in hospital.

And as another poster said, I realise I can't foresee how I will cope when I get older and begin to decline, and what level of insight I will have, but having almost no family means that I'm unlikely to be a burden on anyone apart from maybe my husband. Maybe I will feel differently about wanting to move to a smaller house in 20 years, but if I do, it will be my decision, and not something that my daughter tries to push me into.

I wish your mum all the best, and will stop following this thread now.

@fusby thanks for your realistic posts that so many of us can sympathise with. With regard to the last post by @Growlybear83 firstly I think your response was spot on. It is a pity that poster has now decided to unfollow the thread but that is the beauty of having choices. Sadly many of us this and similar threads have had our lives derailed because our parents have made poor decisions and choices in order to remain in their homes pretending to be independent when in reality we have over many years sorted utility companies for them, organised mobile phones and contracts for them, sorted out workmen, taken them out for meals, the list goes on. Basically we have, in our case, parented our own parents for around the past 20 years. Yes 20 years in our case. So we have brought up our own children whilst doing all the things our parents decided they didn’t ( or couldn’t) do. Yet all the while they think they are ‘independent’. Growlybear might think they are only going to burden their partner. Wrong. What about the burden on the NHS? My parents have had so much input from the NHS it is amazing that they criticise any part of it. Even last year when clearly our father was on a massive decline in health our mother actually sat in front of a nurse and said ‘I think if he could have a hip replacement he could get back in the gym and build himself back up to fitness’. The man had at this point been given around 6 weeks to live. As it is he is alive and whilst not getting better is safe and being nursed well in a home. Countless meetings with staff who were incredibly professional but our mother just would not process he had a diagnosis of Parkinson’s and Lewey Body Dementia-her reasoning being but we have always looked after ourselves - meaning lived on grilled fish and vegetables - endless hours in the gym - as if this makes you invincible. To be honest I think we have to accept some people cannot accept or come to terms with the fact they will age and that old age might require some level of us adapting. Thanks for your posts - it is helpful knowing others have similar experience. There is no ‘bullying’ going on as Growly suggested. Just very concerned anxious middle aged people having their lives utterly derailed because their parents ‘don’t want to do this or that’. Utterly selfish. But then we have most likely experienced this all their lives.

I'm in a bit of a rush @BlueLegume but have to say I just nodded along to your post. I totally agree that we do have to adapt as we age. I am so sorry to read of your father's diagnosis- that is a nasty combination. Shows you can't healthy eat out of age and illness, doesn't it?
Best wishes to all from another middle aged, anxious and weary person, who is a little bit broke after the burnout of it all caused her to leave her job, and has not yet had a chance, with all this, to look for another, and is winging it and shock horror, currently relying on a MAN! 💐

All you fabulous women. Its really hard isnt it. Neither of my parents are with me. Mum passed April this year. She was very sweet natured but didnt think about what was going to happen when she got older. She hoped she would just fall asleep one night and not wake up which is rare these days.

She then fell and broke her hip and that really threw her. She lived on her own which was fine until it became clear she was struggling so we persuaded her to move into a retirement complex. Although the start was very shaky she realised that she was surrounded in the end by people who were just like her and often in denial about their age and capabilities. The complex took a lot of the worry away from these folk although they didnt always recognise it. Bistro lunches where they could all sit around grumbling - thing is they must have liked the lunch because they were there every day! Some people stayed in their flats which was fine but the lovely staff clocked who hadnt been seen that day and a gentle knock on the door to ensure all was OK sorted that.

They had care alarms and all the residents wore them a bit like a badge and made sure the others did too. Quiz nights, a bit of keep fit. It was for INDEPENDENT living though. They wouldnt pick you off the floor if you fell.

They would call me or an ambulance and in the end Mum just had too many falls and was getting frailer and frailer and sadly had to move into a care home when she died not long after.

Mum listened to me in the end. She would sometimes argue (sort of!) or do things I told her not to do but generally I think she knew she couldnt have stayed in her old place. She would have had a falll and then straight into a care home. The retirement complex helped her for a while. I wish she had actually passed away there with the staff around her that she knew and who were very kind. It wasnt to be.

Where I did struggle with all of this is the unknown. Being called suddenly because something had happened. Whatever you were doing had to stop and you got your coat on.

Mum was always apologetic and didnt want to be a burden but when she called you answered. I took all her post away from her and she was getting increasingly worried about letters and what they meant. i did all her shopping. I gave her a large post it note and told her to put down anything that she needed and not to worry about remembering it. If it was on the Post It it would be done.

Yes the burden to the NHS is unspoken but a real concern. People with no real quality of life being given expensive treatments and then wheeled back to care homes where they spend hours just looking out the window often bed bound waiting for the Grim Reaper. In the end in conjunction with the GP we agreed no more interventions. They would take the pain away but wouldnt actively treat anything bar a broken leg or similar. The last night I saw her I asked her if she was in pain (she had fallen many times and had broken some bones in her back) and she said no. i knew they had started the End of Life Pathway. No one said anything. We just knew.

@WinterFrog totally get the feeling ‘a little bit broke’. So sorry about your job and there is nothing wrong with taking some time out. Without this and other threads I think many of us would be incredibly lost. It might irk some posters but not all of us have happy childhoods. The poster Growly sounds exactly like my mother was. Frankly it is burying your head in the sand thinking you won’t be a burden to anyone but your husband or friend. There is far more nuance to aging than is discussed. I would also say that families need family houses and us selling ours to a family, whilst a wrench freed up a much needed family sized home. In fact I have seen the move we made as an adventure and love my new space. I have lovely happy memories of our lovely family home and they will stay lovely as opposed to my mother who is now living in a large house totally unfit for purpose and is in dire need of refreshing. So any happy memories are far in the distance. But hey ho she knew better and got things her way! Just 3 adult children worried sick constantly and unable to do anything such as holidaying or enjoying our own retirement and grandchildren.

My sister had a real go at my Father a number of years ago about the state of his house. Couldnt get through the front door, crap everywhere etc. He became very defensive and stated that it bothered her more than it bothered him.

I think that sums it up. They live how they want and stuff everyone else. It will be for others to sort out (and I certainly did!).

We got the house cleared in advance of him moving into care and of course the cost came off his overall estate. Selling it was the easy bit. Untouched house in a lovely part of London. We had plenty of offers. The fortunate thing was that he had some money hence it was made easier BUT I am sure some of us can agree - its the time you spent sorting it. Getting a proper clearance company, supervising it etc. The company suggested moving Dad out of the house during clearance which definitely helped too.

So definitely look into my suggestion of hiring someone to oversee the work.

@BlueLegume yep- life isn't predictable- and I think people who have been sensible in life and very independent find it hard to come to terms with the fact that in getting old some things really are totally out of your control - however much you think you won't need help or will rely on a partner ( what if partner also not able) and all you can do is put things in place whilst you are able to do so that make it easier on others to be able to help you out- those that have the capacity to do this but simply won't out if stubbornness are being selfish in the extreme and will end up causing their loved ones huge amounts of stress. My father in law at 85 is busily upping sticks and has been doing Swedish death cleaning in the last year in order to move. Initially I found it quite depressing him selling stuff off and tip runs , going through old possessions and the like but actually I think he is doing us a great kindness.