Mum driving into London 81.

[Flyhigher]

I want to try and stop my mum driving into London at 81.
She's insistent. How do you convince a stubborn 81 year old? She's like a toddler.
Help any ideas? She's having dental treatment.
She has to drive along the north circular into hangar lane. Don't really like her driving into London.
Help.

I don't love Hanger Lane, I must say.... BUT the thing that makes London driving safer in general is that it's mostly max 20mph.

She'll probably be absolutely fine. If she feels confident enough to go for it she probably is a good enough driver

Having read the whole thread, the things you're mentioning aren't really London issues - they're just driving issues.
If she can't keep to a lane safely then she shouldn't really be driving. Ironically she'll be safer in London than anywhere else as it's all 15-20mph

I do think driving into a city is different to pottering around quieter local roads.

Has anyone dealt with this with parents and how did you approach it?

@Flyhigher

Could you ask her whether she would like to be taken there and brought back by Addison Lee (assuming that they cover where she lives), so that she can relax on the way home from her treatment?

Honestly drivers in London have better manners and make more allowances/are more forgiving in my experience. I always get a small shock when I'm driving elsewhere.

However your problem isn't London, it's that your mum sounds horrendously unsafe to drive anywhere. Slow-moving London roads aren't any likely to be more dangerous than her sitting on the middle of two lanes on an empty road with a blind corner.

Speaking as someone that used to drive into London a lot, I'd rather drive in now because the traffic is SO slow all you have to do is follow the car in front.

I'd be far more worried about her negotiating the M40 or the M25 or whichever M-way she has to to get there.

From what you’ve said in your later posts, your mum isn't driving safely anymore. I don’t know why it’s fine for her to get into an accident locally, but not in London?

I agree that as we age we might find different environments and distances more difficult or tiring, but this seems different. I don’t know London, but if you think your mum is drifting across lanes I don’t want her hitting me in her local suburb/village either!

Age isn’t the defining issue here, as PPs have said, plenty of people drive safely in their 80s.

I obviously see it differently. I think she's safer on smaller local roads. Well I guess it's just wait till she has an accident then. And hope it's not too serious. It's never 20mph all the time when I drive on the north circular or hangar lane. More like 30 to 50. With lorry's and cars changing lanes a lot.
Maybe it's fine though and I'm worrying needlessly.

Yes I have, it wasn't London but distances/regularly driving for 6+ hours on same day at age 80. I said something like "df you might hate me for saying this but I'm worried about you driving all that way. Some roads are undriveable and other people's driving is getting worse and riskier all the time. Wouldn't it be easier/less stress to get train?"

He was a bit defensive at first but had a think about things. Still drives a huge amount, but now takes the train on stressy or very long journeys.

It's in between. She's not had any accidents.
She did touch a kerb once.
I don't understand why it's all or nothing. She's perfectly fine to drive anywhere or she's a completely unsafe.
She does drive a bit close to the middle or almost on the middle line.

Anyway. Just wanted anyone who has faced this and how they approached it. For some hints.

Maybe I'll just leave it. And it's fine. She doesn't want to change so maybe it's irrelevant anyway.

I drove that area a few months ago. Lanes were wide and well marked. Other drivers fairly tolerant of each other.
Biggest problem is likely knowledge of last few hundred metres and parking.
Probably not likely to go to Ace Cafe for a bacon sandwich on this trip!😶

My DF drives into London all the time via the A40 so under the Hanger Lane gyratory. At 86 he is a perfectly safe driver and doesn’t drift over lanes etc (and has an annual medical and eye check). It’s a bit silly just to think there’s a particular age that everyone should stop,

I wouldn’t be happy for him to be driving anywhere if he had the symptoms you describe though - imagine if a lorry was coming the other way on a country road.
Have you raised it with her directly? It may be worth going go the GP together.

Just because someone gets older, it doesn't mean that they become dangerous drivers, and I think the way you've talked about your mother is very patronising, unless you've got a concern about a particular medical condition that she needs to report to DVLA.

Small changes that happen as we get older do affect the ability to drive safely, eg stiffer joints, reduced eyesight and hearing, increased medication use, possible slight cognitive decline. At what stage all that crosses the line to dangerous driving varies.

It's natural to be concerned imho, but not sure what you can do about it at the moment other than have a chat with her. Reading your later posts I'd also be somewhat worried about her driving locally OP.

My DM at 83 would drive in central London - might get a bit flustered though.

Her older DSis (my aunt) who’s 90 was driving a manual car up until she turned 89, I don’t know if she would’ve gone into London. But she did drive into larger cities and towns near where she lived on the south coast.

If she drifts in and out of lanes she'll be driving like roughly 50% of other London drivers.

I think you are wrong to assume she can't drive in London any more but I also think if you don't want her to do it you are going about it the wrong way by nagging her. She is clearly a contrary person. If you think she has a specific condition which would stop her driving you could try talking to her GP (if having a conversation about someone else is a thing you can still do with GPs), who could tell her to stop driving. You could focus on the positive aspects of the alternatives rather than telling her she can't drive, like if you get an Uber you don't have to find somewhere to park or pay for parking and you can decide when you leave etc. Otherwise she has to be allowed to make her own mistakes as you see them.

That part of London is easier than High Wycombe or Oxford it is simpler. Older towns have signs right on the junction, No warning time or distance to manoeuvre into a lane.

A car coming round a bend should be expecting it. All sorts of vehicles are on the middle line - lorries, tractors, SUVs who think their car is bigger than it is.

But maybe get her to work out where the kerb line intersects her windscreen when she’s 18 inches from the kerb.

And make sure you’re not overestimating how close she is because you’re in the passenger seat not the driver’s seat.

reduced eyesight and hearing Eyesight is correctible. Arguably the greatest eyesight problems are among younger drivers who don’t see the need to test regularly (or ever). Hearing is a hard one. How is hearing going to help with decision making for the many drivers with music full on whenever they drive?

Where does she live?
Does she drive regularly in London?

Thousands of pensioners live in London and drive regularly in London without issue!

Your mistake was in making this about her age. which is irrelevant. My father is nearly 90 and is an extraordinarily competent driver still.

What's relevant is that you are concerned she's experiencing some cognitive declines and that her driving has deteriorated significantly. That IS relevant.

However, I don't know that you can force her not to drive. You can discuss your concerns with her. Look into the points at which they have to be reassessed - but I think it's really only linked to eye sight?

OP you can call your mums GP and tell them your concerns and they can call her in for a chat/ check up and if they think the same they can contact the DVLA to have her licence revoked on medical grounds.

My dad did this to his dad, he still feels guilty now which is years later (grandad died 20 years ago) but he did it to save his and others lives. The doctor will not tell your mum about any contact from you.

Don't wait til she has an accident- that's not the answer and you can intervene now.

London is no larder to drive in than any other city in the U.K.

The age is just some context. That's all.
She's hunched over now and more frail. So I think it does have some bearing.
People seem to think it's fine. Maybe it is.

I think as sooon as you start questioning if someone is safe to drive they are not safe to drive. After that point any accident that happens becomes your responsibility too: you had niggle but didn’t stop it.

Not all eyesight changes are correctable.
In low light conditions generally an older person finds it more difficult to distinguish contrast, shade etc.
Night driving especially is harder as we age. A fifteen year old will recover from glare in 2 seconds on average. A 65 year old takes 9 seconds.