🪳 🪳 🪳 Cockroach Café Late Summer 2024

[MereDintofPandiculation]

Welcome in to the Cockroach Café Bad Daughters’ Room. all fresh and clean for the new season. Join me over here on the sofas amongst the rugs and cushions if you’ve come in from the rain, or over the other side in the shade if it’s 33 degrees outside. Looks like it’s either one or the other.

Good daughters, find your way to the small room behind the stairs. Sorry it’s not as equipped as here, but it doesn’t get much use.

Come in when you want to share good news, or to rant, or just to hang out with others who understand what you're going through. The way MN works, hopefully this thread won’t appear in any featured lists, and the only people wandering in will be those who understand what it’s all about.

If you have a BIG question, it might be worth giving it its own thread, so as not to swamp this one.

For newbies: why cockroach? Previous long term resident of "Elderly Parents" Yolo's DM attended a 'small animal event' in a nursing home, and was presented with a "small animal with a hard back" the name of which species she couldn't remember. Her ever helpful DB suggested cockroach, and it has become a toast on here. My recent enquiries suggested more people wanted to keep the well known name than wanted to change it to something more savoury, so for the moment it stays.

Of course your FIL should have someone with him if it's going to be bad news @Newmum738. Poor man.

@@Newmum738 Good luck with everything.

My FIL has spent less than week in a nursing home following hospital discharge, and is back in another hospital now with a serious infection and a smorgasbord of comorbidities. It's in a different health authority so not much scope for pointing fingers, but really, I can't help feeling he deserves better. It's a pretty grim outlook, made even worse by the prospect of it going on for longer than it needs to. The system is full of people wanting to help him, but in the end he was booted out of a hospital bed to make way for someone equally in need, who will in all likelihood go through something similar.

So sorry about your FIL @Newmum738 I hope that your DH will step up and be there to support him. It would be horrible if he was alone receiving that news.

@Newmum738 your poor FIL. Hope your dh sees the point when he's there...

A bit of a counterpoint I suppose re men and care. My godmother has died and the funeral is next week. (A huge relief tbh after 5 years in a home.) Her strength and stay throughout has been her nephew/my cousin, a really lovely and caring man. Her other goddaughter has been a much more reliable visitor than me throughout, but it is him who has done all the heavy lifting. I suppose what it shows is that there isn't any excuse for men who don't step up, but we know that.

DH has well and truly stepped up for MIL so much so I've had to be the one to help him put boundaries in place. BIL just does things that are "public". If someone doesn't see him do it he's not interested.

The men on my side of the family, including DBIL, have been amazing with caring for their elders. SIL made a huge mistake divorcing DB as she’s an only child and I see her nightmare on the horizon.

DH’s side have had (and still have) different caring challenges and DH stepped up for FIL. DH’s brother and one cousin are a bunch of shunts who cause more drama and are no help for their elders at all. They cause so much stress.

DH finds DF insufferable but has been supportive of me and my siblings by patiently keeping business as usual running and feeding extra mouths at short notice, while we run around. DH is also a safe space when I need to rant about the latest DF drama as he does not judge me as he’s seen the absolute madness first hand (he will occasionally question why we’re all such masochists!). I hope to be an easier elder and that my DC still want to see me.

My DH does loads to help my Dad, but he also cared for his Mum before she died when none of his siblings would help. He is also a carer for my child.

My Dad's barber used to care for his grandmother until her needs due to dementia became too great for him to manage.

My brother on the other hand... We also see some sisters, daughters etc on here not supporting their siblings in caring for elderly parents.

Not everyone can handle serious illness in a loved one in the same way it depends on what they have been through previously, their emotional maturity. People should step up, but sometimes if they aren't able to truly support that person then they can make things harder for them and the other family members.

Also as we know sometimes when the person you are trying to help doesn't help themselves in order to save your sanity and own health you have to step back a bit.

Such a complex situation for many. Not that I am making excuses for anyone just leaving all the caring burden to someone else to make their lives easier because someone else will just pick up the slack.

Same.

@ArabellaFishwife it feels non-sensical. There must be a better way.

DH and obesity of hos brothers stepped up for their parents. The other brother did nothing and just argued with everything they did.

Dad is in a lovely care home. He's in his 90s with alzheimers, which is moderate/severe I guess. He's had a few falls over the last few days and paramedics have attended. He also seems to have a chest infection which is making his alzheimers symptoms worse and is in pain we think following the falls. He is resistant to help, care, eating and drinking, getting agitated and crying out. Some of the paramedics want to take him to hospital for I/V fluids and antibiotics. In reality this would mean him lying on a trolley in a corridor for days, receiving little care. If by some miracle they managed to get canulas in, he would pull them out very quickly. He'd be traumatised and terrified. He does have quite a detailed RESPECT form which has helped keep him in the home. I'm worried that if he keeps falling he will have to move homes. What sort of facility would he go to? He doesn't need nursing care. If he goes to hospital I think his dementia would deteriorate to the point he won't be able to go back to the home. Has anyone been in a similar position? Not sure what to expect if his infection doesn't clear up.

Does your area have a team that work to avoid hospital admissions at all? Speak to the care home GP to see if this might be an option. With my Aunt they were considering this to avoid admission, in her area it was called the rapid response and intermediate care team and the GP's could refer to it. They did home visits for IV medication and fluids.

Are the paramedics there to pick him up, or can the home team manage to get him up themselves and they call the paramedics to check him over?

Does the home have a nursing care floor? I do wonder if he falls that much whether he does in fact need nursing care?

I'm instinctively against putting such a frail person through the process of siting an IV and having strong antibiotics with all the side effects, and you say that he'd pull out a cannula anyway. Seems like a lot of pain for minimal gain. What does his GP think?

Choco, I don't know if there's such a team. His RESPECT form says not for hospital admission and the manager supports this. I'll try to find out.

PermTemp, sometimes paramedics have picked him up, sometimes staff. He's so distressed, screaming and crying out when they move him, happy to stay on the floor. There's no nursing care floor in his home. I fear you may be right if he doesn't improve. I agree, hospital would be no gain for even more pain. GP has been rung but refuses to come out to see him, even when requested by paramedics as "we can't make him eat and drink". I hate this effing disease. That my poor dad has come to this.

The GP can come and see him to assess whether he would benefit from home care for IV medication or fluids and if needed they could prescribe something to help with his agitation and pain. You need to push them to come out. Sometimes OOH GP's can have a different take on things so they could try them too, I had a home visit for my Dad previously via 111 OOH GP team for an infected cat bite.

@funnelfan I've found this the case too. While the men in the family have done the physical work of moving and clearing, it's tended to fall to the women (ie me!) to deal with the organisation of hospital, OT, chemist, deliveries etc, all the while fielding calls from both DF, and DM who's fed up with hospitals. I sometimes feel like I'm being a bully but it's the only way to make sure things get sorted by everyone, not just me, and ensure a safe home.

He's on lorazepam already, which contributes to the falls I think. He's really very demented now they'd never get a cannula in him.

Sorry if this sounds brutally insensitive @PanettonePudding but do you think your dad is just coming naturally to the end? Not eating or drinking and frequent infections do suggest that the body is winding down. That's why hospital admissions are a bit futile at this stage. If he is very old and has severe dementia, to let him pass would be merciful; I think doctors are just scared to suggest it even with very old people. they need to be seen to be 'doing' something, though the GP in his case sounds more realistic. I am very sorry, it really IS an effing disease. 💐

Not insensitive at all AINightingale, I agree. It would be a relief for him to be free of this. The home don't think he's at end of life, I asked them. So they continue to try to get him to eat and drink. This is his first infection in quite a while. I guess we'll have to see what happens. Thsnks to those who have replied, it's appreciated.

We are having issues with MIL in her dementia care home. She's been moved to a supposedly safer ward as she was in fights with other women who were mobile on her last ward and she keeps falling. They were going to try her on risperidone but her ECG showed it wasn't safe so she's so up and down at the moment and her aggression has returned. They discovered she has a UTI so has antibiotics and they are trying Sertraline and Diazepam but still anxious and angry.

Husband and FIL turned up to visit yesterday to find her in a pool of blood in the lounge. Ambulance called and she is still in hospital as she was aggressive when they tried to take bloods and a scan. I have no clue if anyone from the home stays with her - she's under DOLS. It seemed strange that she was there and we were at home. We know that if we visit she will kick off and become aggressive so we are staying away for the time being. FIL with dementia just stands there - his empathy if he had much in the first place - has all but disappeared and I worry that he triggers and makes things worse when he visits everyday.

That sounds very stressful @I8toys FIL was very agitated when we went to see him in his care home yesterday and MIL just makes him worse. I can't understand how after more than 60 years of marriage she has no idea how to behave towards him. Yesterday he had some birthday chocolates and he wanted to share them with us and of course MIL refused to have one and upset him.

@PanettonePudding would the home staff think about when he appears to be less stressed, and try to maintain those moments? Rather than bothering him with food? Unfortunately since the obsession with the bloody Mail campaign against the Liverpool Care Pathway, care institutions are obsessed with finding some way to insert food into people, even if they would much rather be left in peace or asleep.

@Morenicecardigans oh goodness I could have written your post. The nursing facility Dad is in report he only gets agitated when our mother visits. She even admits she doesn’t see any point going. And yes to the 60 plus years of marriage. It has made me reflect though and join dots together that they have not ever had anything in common in terms of conversation etc. She ruled the roost and effectively told him what he could think. It is lovely seeing him free of that and with a relaxed smile when we visit. Yes to the chocolate sharing. She even refuses to take one out of the spirit of joining in.

PermanentTemporary, I think they would be like that if it wasn't for the chest infection, which they think might be at the root of the current issues. Personally I think it's more of a golden clusterfuck and maybe his time has come. He has been sleeping more recently and they haven't been waking him for meals, just giving him food when he wakes.

Just an update that dad died last night. The GP continued to refuse to come out but did send a "rapid response unit" who thankfully said he was for end of life care. He was finally peaceful. We were with him at the end.