So bloody exhausted waiting for someone to die 3

[StiffyByngsDogBartholomew]

Carrying on from our first two threads..
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/elderly_parents/4967638-so-bloody-exhausted-waiting-for-someone-to-die-2

Hi. Mum is back in the care home, still asleep mostly has tried to open her eyes a couple of times and smiled when she saw my DH. She hasn’t drank anything now for 48 hours, they’re keeping her mouth moist though.
The home said she would get in touch with the GP tomorrow, to put her on end of life care if there’s no improvement.
It’s an awful question to ask but how long can she survive without water ? It already feels like weeks and it’s only been two days☹️

It’s an awful question to ask but how long can she survive without water ? It already feels like weeks and it’s only been two days☹️

About three days is what is generally quoted.

However, when I was nursing elderly people at home, I looked after one lady who lasted six days, and another who lasted ten days (without water).

I do wonder if that's because a lot of very elderly people live on a sub-optimal quantity of fluid for many months or even years, and they kind of adjust to that. And when mouthcare is done, a small quantity of water can be absorbed.

Has your mum been eating up till now @Metoo15?

TheShellBeach Thank you for replying. She ate a small meal Saturday lunchtime, then no food or drink since then apart from the mouth sticks. It’s all happened so quickly so far.

We were told max three days without water, the reality was more than a week. I suppose once they're at the point of lying there energy needs etc are so very low. And a tiny amount of water does go in with mouth care, I think?

@Metoo15 I'm surprised they haven't had the GP out already, to start EOL meds.

Does your mum seem comfortable? What do they think has happened - a brain haemorrhage?

I've just had another look at your other thread about your mum @Metoo15

I see that you said she hadn't been eating and drinking enough for some time, so maybe her body is just used to insufficient fluid?

Be that as it may, she won't have many days left if she has completely stopped taking oral fluids.
I'm so sorry this has happened.

Thank you. She’s only 6.5 stone and at 92 been frail for quite a while, so thinking it might not be long. My son has just visited, she knew it was him and kissed his hand ❤️ flipping heart wrenching stuff isn’t it.

TheShellBeach. Sorry just seen your post. Apparently the hospital haven’t followed the correct procedure, no change there then. They sent her back to the care home with no warning, so there isn’t a care plan in place.
Poor mum another shambles ! The care home have been very good their getting the Dr and district nurse involved today, to write up the drugs she may need.
She has Hypoactive dilerium. The hospital Dr has stated its end of life care. But who knows my mum is very strong willed. It’s just a waiting game.

Had another stupid message off my mum claiming my Dad chose a particular type of sausage to eat and really enjoyed it, he can't communicate or chew.

I know this is going to end up with DF dying then my Mum pretending he's been cut down in his prime - she's got massively extensive form for making dramas out of bereavements. I know I will be painted as being completely flint hearted for not playing along with it but I just have nothing more to give.

terrible, so sorry.

@Metoo15 I hope your doing OK today, I'm so sorry, its just such a hard time for you.

@HoraceGoesBonkers sometimes you have to step back a bit for tour own sake, I have definitely learnt that the hard way

@Metoo15 just sending a handhold; I hope you're as OK as can be expected under the circumstances.

@HoraceGoesBonkers that sounds so frustrating and miserable. You have my sympathies.

Hope you're reasonably okay @Metoo15

@HoraceGoesBonkers I'd be tearing my hair out if I were you. No advice, just sympathy.

@Metoo15 just posting in solidarity 💐💐

@HoraceGoesBonkers so much sympathy - I totally get it, and I think the drama queen tendency only gets worse as they age and their world gets smaller and smaller.

I have only just discovered this thread and bookmarking my place in solidarity. My parents have doggedly (and often rudely) refused any help or to make any plans for old age. They live in a completely unsuitable house and rarely engage with health professionals despite a wide range of health issues - refuse hearing aids, help with cardiac issues, mobility and, oh joy, what is clearly dementia. And now there's a crisis, and I have had to drop everything (I am fulltime working mum). I am full of sympathy for their distress and confusion, but also seething resentment that at the ages of 92 and 88 the one who isn't in hospital keeps sayng 'who could have foreseen this' and I am inwardly screaming 'me, me me, I foresaw this'
In the meantime, I am off work and away from my family to scrub their filthy house, bathe them, feed them, get emergency medical appointments, meet with solicitors and banks, try to pick my way through their finances to work out what can be done in terms of care etc. Did they really think one day they would just fall asleep and not wake up, or that they would live for ever? I can't ever imagine putting this burden on my kids.

Hello @rosemarypetticoat and welcome to the thread that nobody wants to be on.

Thank you @TheShellBeach

And @Metoo15 sending a virtual handhold. This is hard stuff to carry💐

DHs phone just rang and even though it's over 6 months since his last parent died I still had that instant tense reaction.

Welcome @rosemarypetticoat. Burying your head in the sand seems to be a common phenomena that afflicts so many people as they age. DM used to care for her mother and complained such a lot about how grandma had done nothing to prepare for old age, how she lived too long in an unsuitable house that mums had to look after etc etc. Roll forward 25 years and now I’m looking after DM with exactly the same complaints, only I have the additional resentment that DM knew first hand what was coming, and yet still did nothing to prepare herself.

DM was generally a sensible and reasonable woman so I can only conclude that something changed in perception/planning. Maybe in her case it was very early cognitive changes in advance of her dementia. It’s quite depressing to think that all of us that say “don’t ever let me get like that” to our loved ones are actually saying “I’m dreading getting like that”. We’re all encouraged to plan financially for retirement but there is no national discussion on what that life will look like.

Hi @funnelfan yes, exactly this. My parents were very abrasive any time I discussed this with them, and it made me feel awful. My mum says it's because they never wanted to be a burden to me but the lack of any planning means the burden is massively intensified at a time of medical crisis.

They were so sensible about everything in their lives, never took any risks, were so down the middle, except on this one thing which is possibly the most reckless and irresponsible thing ever because they are now so so vulnerable. I completely agree, this should be something that is much more widely discussed at a society level so people, and their families, head towards retirement better prepared for the realities of aging.

Denial is very very powerful. Mine did it till their last breath.

I became " the enemy" A force that was interfering. Wanting to spoil things and " put them in a home"
I try to look back with some compassion. I suppose they were afraid, defensive and mentally not with it.
The " deemed to have capacity" thing got to me. Its not black or white.
I'm 66 now , having signed over the last 20 odd years to worry and care. I will not do this to my children.

Hello @rosemarypetticoat and welcome to the (literal in some cases) madhouse.

I think sometimes society does a very bad job of priming people to get older. Instead of things like mobility aids and adaptations, ramps, moving to a more suitable house etc etc being seen as positive things that can help you keep your independence for longer, they're seen as somehow giving in and admitting you're not 27 any more.

Although people get upset about others wasting NHS and social resources (people getting drunk and ended up in A&E, phoning ambulances for weak reasons etc) there isn't the same sort of social issue around older people refusing to adapt their house, get a neck alarm etc etc, but then winding up in hospital for what's sometimes quite a lengthy stay as a result.

My DM wanted to keep my Dad at home but would then phone the ambulance when he had a bad night and to effectively get him taken in for respite but would get angry when I suggested it was time to go to a home, because it apparently was something that just affected her. (of course the rest of my family were getting the dreaded phone calls and even although it was free at the point of use to her it's not actually free, my DM is the first person to get shirty about younger people relying too much on the state!)

I suspect the financial and social cost of not trying to change attitudes about preparing for old age is massive.