Dad 89 won't listen, health failing, lies to people

[paulfoel]

He tells me he can't cope. Says the same to my brother (we don't speak long story).

I got social services to visit and he told them the opposite. Hes fine.

Yesterday, got a call from the Lifeline people he'd fallen over. I drove over my brother was there also (first time I'd spoken in 2 years). Turns out Dad has fallen 4-5 times recently and called my brother. Didn't tell me.

I'm furious, hes lying to everyone. No idea what hes playing up.

I've told him 100 times I cannot pick him up off the floor anyway. (I've got back problems, got blue badge for it).

Every time its always "my sons will do it". Hes refused carers in the past. He just will not get it out of his head that we can't do everything for him.

To be honest, hes better off in a nice residential home. BUT hes stubborn about that.

Hes got almost £50K in the bank but obsessive about not spending any of it.

From what I understand, I can't force anything, even if his stupid decisions are causing problems for himself. Whether hes mentally capable is borderline at the moment I'd say.

Any suggestions/recommendations?

[Shouldbedoing]

You make it clear to the authorities that you cannot provide care. Should he end up in hospital a safe discharge will be planned. They will try to rope you in to provide care. Do not promise more than you can manage.

[RiffRaffBananas]

Have you got a Legal Power of Attorney for both health/wellbeing and finance/property? If not get them Registered now otherwise social services will take over.

[Daisymay2]

Can really help in terms of what to do - my dad insisted he was fine and was admitted to hospital several times before he finally agreed to go into sheltered accommodation, and when that failed into residential. As for the lies…… he told SS that I visited daily, did all his shopping and hoovered through. They insisted he was correct. I lived 160 miles away and had a full time job. He was still correct as it was in his notes. I was insulted that they thought my hoovering left the place in the state it was.

[PermanentTemporary]

When the Lifeline call you, ask them to call an ambulance, or call them yourself.

Try to get your dad to agree to the installation of a keysafe and to share the code so that the ambulance workers don't have to break down the door.

If the hospital teams call you, say that you live a long way away and can't do any care.

That's it really.

[paulfoel]

@Shouldbedoing

You make it clear to the authorities that you cannot provide care. Should he end up in hospital a safe discharge will be planned. They will try to rope you in to provide care. Do not promise more than you can manage.

Yes someone else told me that. In Dads ideal world I'd move in with him - thats what hes like!

Wouldn't bother him that I'm married and got kids....

[paulfoel]

@RiffRaffBananas

Have you got a Legal Power of Attorney for both health/wellbeing and finance/property? If not get them Registered now otherwise social services will take over.

No Dad always refuses because he says "there no need". I think hes cleverer that I think he is on that one.....

I want Social to take over though if I honest. At the moment, hes spinning them a load of lies and they're leaving him alone.

[paulfoel]

@PermanentTemporary

When the Lifeline call you, ask them to call an ambulance, or call them yourself.

Try to get your dad to agree to the installation of a keysafe and to share the code so that the ambulance workers don't have to break down the door.

If the hospital teams call you, say that you live a long way away and can't do any care.

That's it really.

In this instance they did call an ambulance. I was not happy with them though - they didnt speak to him properly had no idea what had happened and raised it as low priority with the ambulance people. They would probably have taken hours and hours.

Part of me thinks maybe I should not have zoomed over there. He thinks its all fine now. I was well over the limit too but hes does not seem to give a monkeys about that.

Yes I know bad idea. All I could think of was hes lying there dying, the ambulance won't be there for hours, I've got to get there.

Thats the most annoying things, his stupid-arse selfish decisions affect me. He just does not get it all how it works.

Sometimes I think I should just leave him to it - I've tried to help he won't have it, crack on then. Im thinking now if he had sat on the floor for 8 hours before the ambulance came it might have made him realise how serious things are and the that the current situation can't continue.

[paulfoel]

@Daisymay2

Can really help in terms of what to do - my dad insisted he was fine and was admitted to hospital several times before he finally agreed to go into sheltered accommodation, and when that failed into residential. As for the lies…… he told SS that I visited daily, did all his shopping and hoovered through. They insisted he was correct. I lived 160 miles away and had a full time job. He was still correct as it was in his notes. I was insulted that they thought my hoovering left the place in the state it was.

Daisymay - OMG thats just awful. I must admit I did find the Social Services to be a bit stupid to be honest.... Did not one person even think theres no way you drive pretty much 6 hours round trip every day? Its obvious.

All I got from them was "Aw love him" when I was trying to tell them to be very wary of him and how he lies. They didn't of course, they went around believed every word he said.

I've been in his flat and its been absolutely stinking in there. He washes not often. Many a time I've gone around and his clothes have had food stains all down them - I dread to think how many days hes had them on for.

Of course, not when Social went around. He'd sprayed around, had a wash, put clean clothes on. Of course, they said to me he looks like hes looking after himself well!

Best one was he pees in a bottle in the kitchen. I know gross. I've caught him peeing in cups too - never have a cup of tea in Dads house. All because he can't be bothered to take the stair lift to the bathroom. Of course he told Social, yes hes fine goes up the stair lift and hid his pee bottle!

Of course, Social phoned me the day after and told me all this. How he looked like he looked after himself, how he managed day to day, how he seemed content. Day later its the usual "I can't cope any more, I'm stuck in the house".
It seems the moaning is reserved for ME to do something about it and no-one else.

[MereDintofPandiculation]

No idea what hes playing up. He knows he’s failing, he’s scared stiff of going into a care home.

He’s not deliberately selfish, it’s just that his own needs are all encompassing.

you have to protect your own interests, because he is in no position to. And, as you suggest, standing back may help him realise that he does need support.

[GinForBreakfast]

I almost guarantee he has dementia. I've just been through all this with an elderly relation. Try to see his behaviour as the dementia, not "him".

I don't know what the answer is except to limit phone calls and stop swooping in. Continue to provide correct information to his GP and social services.

I'm so sorry, the guilt is awful but you have to protect yourself.

[EmotionalBlackmail]

Hang on, you were "well over the limit" and you still drove over to scoop him up?!

So you drove over to him, whilst well over the limit for drink driving? Putting yourself and other people at risk if you'd had an accident. Risking your own driving licence?!

Is it time to think about priorities here. What is risky? Him on the floor for a few hours or you driving after drinking?

[Daisymay2]

I don’t think for a moment social services were stupid. I think they were just going by the check list and were overwhelmed by workload. I come from a town where the mantra was that people retire there to die and forget what they went for. Dad also passed the short dementia assessment easily as it focuses on current affairs, dad was a former local councillor, in fact chair of social services at one stage, and devoured the papers daily. He had been a salesman , he could chat for 30minutes ok, his confusion showed when he was tired.
i had to ask the SW to read out the number she had dialled twice before she realised that it wasn’t the local one. My local dialling code was one digit different to dad’s. Then I asked her to check where it was! She still thought I pooped in several times a week. I aimed to go once a month in reality.

[GinForBreakfast]

@EmotionalBlackmail

Hang on, you were "well over the limit" and you still drove over to scoop him up?!

So you drove over to him, whilst well over the limit for drink driving? Putting yourself and other people at risk if you'd had an accident. Risking your own driving licence?!

Is it time to think about priorities here. What is risky? Him on the floor for a few hours or you driving after drinking?

OP could have meant over the speed limit, as opposed to the drink driving limit. Neither are good but the latter is terrible, obviously.

[paulfoel]

@EmotionalBlackmail

Hang on, you were "well over the limit" and you still drove over to scoop him up?!

So you drove over to him, whilst well over the limit for drink driving? Putting yourself and other people at risk if you'd had an accident. Risking your own driving licence?!

Is it time to think about priorities here. What is risky? Him on the floor for a few hours or you driving after drinking?

Well not exactly but yes bad idea.
The lifeline people phoned me to tell me he'd pressed the button, they didn't know what happened, they were unable to speak to him, had no idea, but an ambulance had been ordered but it may be hours.
At this point I didn't know he'd "just" fallen - for all I knew he'd had a heart attack. I tried phoning about 20 times no answer. I was also aware that if an ambulance turned up the door would be locked too.

[paulfoel]

@GinForBreakfast

OP could have meant over the speed limit, as opposed to the drink driving limit. Neither are good but the latter is terrible, obviously.

yes bad bad idea I know now but see below.

I won't be doing it again after this thats for sure. Especially since he doesnt appear to care what I did.

[paulfoel]

@MereDintofPandiculation

No idea what hes playing up. He knows he’s failing, he’s scared stiff of going into a care home.

He’s not deliberately selfish, it’s just that his own needs are all encompassing.

you have to protect your own interests, because he is in no position to. And, as you suggest, standing back may help him realise that he does need support.

yes know what you mean. He just will not listen to anyone though who try to help him.

[Hoppinggreen]

Having been through similar you have to let things get to crisis point by stepping back until it gets so bad that even SS can (not pretend not to) see the issues. They are so over stretched and underfunded that they dont need much convincing everything is "fine". If you hadnt gone over it would have been ok I am sure, he might have been on the floor a bit longer but you couldnt lift him anyway and the Paramedics would ahve had to break down the door - so what?
You really do need to let things get bad unfortunately or nothing will change

[paulfoel]

@Daisymay2

I don’t think for a moment social services were stupid. I think they were just going by the check list and were overwhelmed by workload. I come from a town where the mantra was that people retire there to die and forget what they went for. Dad also passed the short dementia assessment easily as it focuses on current affairs, dad was a former local councillor, in fact chair of social services at one stage, and devoured the papers daily. He had been a salesman , he could chat for 30minutes ok, his confusion showed when he was tired.
i had to ask the SW to read out the number she had dialled twice before she realised that it wasn’t the local one. My local dialling code was one digit different to dad’s. Then I asked her to check where it was! She still thought I pooped in several times a week. I aimed to go once a month in reality.

yes fair enough. I did warn them before they went that he might try to do this - not the first time!

Got to be fair having googled it it seems they won't take action if the person is able to make their own decisions no matter how bad it is for their health. Not sure about that to be honest....

He knows what to say. In his mind, he doesn't want carers, he doesn't want to go into a home. he wants his two sons to visit him every day. Its impossible unless I bale out, get divorced and forget my kids. It works because he comes across as a sweet old man....

Trouble is hes (and me originally) from a small working class town (welsh valleys). VERY VERY backward (I can say that I'm from there!). Its the standard attitude with him all the time, care homes are like workhouses where they send you to die, having a carer in your home means you're lazy, its just crazy.

I often wished I lived miles away but from what you've written it doesnt help that much. Im 20+ miles away but he still expects me there within 10 minutes of him calling me.

I've got to stop doing it.....

[Peekaboobo]

You've had lots of good advice here OP and I just wanted to reiterate that you need to step back, stop helping him so that it reaches crises point and SS have to get involved.

You be amazed at the amount of elderly people who would quite happily run their own ageing children into exhaustion rather than get paid care. The joke is, he'd run out of money very quickly and get free care anyway!.

Of course he wants his sons to do it. Now is the time to provide what he NEEDS. Not what he WANTS.

[Peekaboobo]

ageing children, not aging children

[Hanlonsamazer]

I thought I’d written this post in a fever dream, right down to the lies and the brother.

I got great advice on here and the most important part was not committing to more than I could afford. At some point I was going to fall asleep at the wheel driving a 6 hour round trip to get told off by a paramedic. I distanced myself, activated LPA (was asked to by DWP as he had recurrent delirium) and applied for attendance allowance and a council tax discount. He spends the money on an excellent local carer who has changed my life.

[EmotionalBlackmail]

To be blunt, there's not much point rushing from 20 miles away if he's had a heart attack. You won't get there in time to do anything, and rushing (especially if over the drink driving limit!) is just going to cause more problems.

[Bagpussrules]

Anyone who works for social services or in health care knows sometimes to take what people say they can and can’t do with a pinch of salt and that there are plenty of people who refuse care because of the expectation/ hope that their children will do it for them……but unless there is lack of capacity no one can provide care for someone who won’t agree to it. My informal advice is to have very frank conversations with him about what you can do for him, to ask what he wants the future to look like (ie. If he wishes to avoid a nursing home because he has fallen and fractured a hip,then he needs to accept care or help )and then to step back if he’s not agreeable to your suggestions. A discussion about asking for assessment by the falls team could be a good place to start. The peeing in a bottle thing is really no different to using a urinal, although I haven’t come across peeing in a cup before!

[binkie163]

Step back, if he thinks he is coping well enough without carers he doesn't need you there. If he does need care/help he needs carers not you. Your dad doesn't get to choose your life, only his own. If he wants to live in filth, that is his decision, if he is considered to have capacity it is his choice. You have to let him fail.
My grandmother lived in Merthyr Tydfil all her life, the last 8 years in a local council run care home. It was clean, comfy, well run, lovely staff and plenty of company.

[MereDintofPandiculation]

Got to be fair having googled it it seems they won't take action if the person is able to make their own decisions no matter how bad it is for their health. Not sure about that to be honest.... Think about it for yourself. Do you not feel you should have the right to eat unhealthily if you wish, to take less exercise than you should, to stay up late sometimes instead of maintaining a regular bedtime?

*You be amazed at the amount of elderly people who would quite happily run their own ageing children into exhaustion rather than get paid care.
Very few. But a large number who do not realise the effect they’re having on their children, or who can see the effect but don’t link it with their own requests.