Fil jeopardising mil care home place

[MafaldaHopkirkRules]

Hoping for advice. Mil has dementia and is at the stage she is incontinent and no idea of her name and who other people are, just a familiarity. Fil refused to get her diagnosed or any help until he became unwell last year. She had carers from the council but it wasn't enough.
Eventually last autumn fil had a fall and was hospitalized for a month and social services found Mil a home. The home said she was so bad she was moved somewhere more suitable not far from their home.
In the meantime fil was diagnosed with parkinson's and discharged from hospital. There house is unsuitable for both of them but he's determined to change nothing, stay there with no carers.
He's adamant that mil must come home. There's no lpoa and her social worker says this will not happen.
Sorry this is so long. However fil who shouldn't be driving as he's not informed the dvla that he has parkinson's is going to the home daily and taking her home and she gets very distressed.
The home called a meeting with the family, fil didn't come because it was too early!, and social services who said he can visit as much as he likes but he must only take her out of the home once a fortnight and accompanying by another family member. All seemed resolved.
Until last night when dp spoke to his dad and the same day as this meeting he went to the home and took mil back to his house for the afternoon.
If you've got this far, we're at our wits end. What is likely to happen? Will he be prevented from seeing her? Could she lose her place at this lovely home, council funded? And then what? Does anyone have similar experience? Tia

So sorry you are going through this.

I'd recommend submitting a voluntary declaration on line, on his behalf. We did this for DM when she was saying that she would 'only do short journeys' even after eye doctor said she was no longer safe to drive.

www.gov.uk/government/publications/declaration-of-voluntary-surrender

A follow up letter arrived in a very few days asking tor the licence to be sent in.

Cowardly, but effective.

This.

OP although I'd be worried about his continuing to drive when he clearly shouldn't be, I think that that is fairly easy to sort out. You can report him anonymously to the DVLA and they'll take it from there.

https://www.dvla-contact-number.co.uk

However - his insistence on distressing your mother by taking her out of her comfort zone every day, for no good reason, is far more worrying, really.

What does the matron of the home say? Can you ask your social worker for advice? Or the doctor in charge of your mother's care?

He is taking a very confused lady away from where she now feels safe. That is completely unacceptable.

Maybe a specialist dementia nurse can try to explain to him why this is not in your mother's best interests.

My thinking is if he's no longer driving he'll find it a lot more difficult to take OP's mother out.

Her social worker phoned him today and told him in no uncertain terms what the new rules were. He phoned up dp and was really angry about it and said he wouldn't be visiting today. Dp visited mil in his lunch break so she's had a visitor and we will try to persuade fil to go to the home at the weekend and just spend time with her

I'm very glad to see that update, OP.

Good point.

What a hard situation. I wonder if FIL has the cognitive decline that can come with Parkinsons. We took away FIL's car keys when we thought he was becoming dangerous. He was absolutely furious for some time and needed to blame someone, but I think deep down he knew he shouldn't be driving and a friend from his Parkinsons support group had just rolled his car on a dual carriageway and nearly killed himself and another family. I didn't want that on my conscience.

If she has dementia that is advanced (which it sounds like it is) then taking her out every day is likely to confuse and distress her. It sounds absolutely awful for the FIL but the team are looking at what is in his wife's best interests, not his.

He won’t jeopardise her place be he may well jeopardise his access.

I'm glad to here this.
Your FIL will likely rant and rage at everybody for a while, refuse to visit the home etc. But that's frustration and grief that will subside over time.
It's sounds really hard for the family but they will need to support them both. Allow the dad the time to get through all the difficult emotions that come with the huge changes and loss he's going through.
Keep an open dialogue with SS and the home.
Good luck x

What support is your FIL getting? Is he having a therapist or support worker?
He's been diagnosed with a serious health condition, no doubt was a full time carer for his wife and has had such a serious injury needed to be admitted to hospital.
The man must be lost without his wife. Lots of carers do when they have had such a busy time. And then being told that to see his wife he has to follow rules of total strangers including not leaving a building every other week.
If you want him to agree to everything that people are putting on him, he needs the support too.

He wouldn't want outside help. Dp and his siblings visit him multiple times during the week. He has always been very independent and often dps siblings would go to him for help with things. It's a major adjustment for him but it was really upsetting to see him causing mil so much upset

Is it possible for a family member to take the keys/car and scorn the vehicle so FIL cannot drive. This may effort him visiting MIL, maybe a family text group could be made to take FIL to visit MIL

Regards MIL, firstly is the home a dementia home or residential only home. A dementia run home would be more clued up to MIL needs.

A family member can speak to the home manger or head of mums unit and ask for her to be put on the gp's list to access if she is depressed - maybe prescribed medications could be prescribed to lift her moods.

Hope you get the situation sorted

I wouldn't put much faith in reporting to DVLA being a quick solution. We reported FIL's dementia (with his consent). Nine months later he gave up driving anyway, and in that time we'd heard nothing back from DVLA in spite of chasing it up.

This is surely stealing. You can report to the authorities but you can't just steal something off someone.

This. The care home need to apply for DOLs if they haven't so already. There is a waiting list for assessment from the local authority but as long as it's applied for they can deprive someone of their liberty if it's in their best interest

Social Worker here. These situations are very tricky & in short and following the letter of the law a Deprivation of Liberty Safeguards assessment cannot prevent family contact/ a family member taking a person out, only the Court of Protection can do this. Short term prevention can be arranged e.g if there appears to be an immediate risk e.g if father in law was drunk for example. From a social worker perspective we always try negotiating & working with FIL rather than against him e.g can he spend the day with mum in the home & have meals with her etc? Can she go home maybe once a week with a family member driving/being present etc etc. Please try & see FILs perspective, his life as he knows it is slipping away & as others have mentioned there is an element of rigid thinking at times with Parkinsons, people do need to reiterate to him decisions are what's best for MIL not him e.g cam he tell you what does a return home do to benefit MIL? Best of luck xx

I'm not sure it's to MIL's benefit to be driven by a man who is no longer capable of driving safely.

@Daffodilsandsunshine @hellsBells246 OP has already informed the DVLA and they did nothing

You need to speak to her social worker or care home manager to have her assessed for a DOLs. This is a legal process and once in place, your MILs care home can legally refuse your FiIL permission for her to be taken from the home.

The only perspective that should be looked at is that of the person who’s under a DOLs order. Her safety is paramount.

When I worked in a nursing home 13 years ago there was a husband doing this. There was an order in place which meant due to safeguarding he wasn't allowed to take her, which her family were also in agreement with. The first few times after the order they called the sons when he attempted to take her but after that they'd call the police. He got in trouble, he wasn't a nice man at all though. She won't lose her place. It does sound like your father in law needs more support, though its difficult when they won't agree to it and still are considered to have full capacity.

She is the priority here, he may find it upsetting and its a big change. Their house has mould, stairs, a steep garden, she is incontinent, confused, distressed, he sits in front of the TVwhile she wanders around and he has been asked not to drive. How on earth would taking her out of her safe, warm, dry, familiar surroundings be of any benefit to her and why would another family member want to get involved in this. I am sure the carehome welcomes him to visit and have meals with her.