All I want for Christmas is ... Power of Attorney sorted

[Mum5net]

For those whose DParents haven't signed POA , Christmas might be a 'window of opportunity' to have the dreaded discussion and suggest that EVERYONE, daughters and sons included, all do their respective POAs in 2024.

Don't spoil your Xmas because of it, but if your elderly parents shows willing, make it a New Year's resolution. An understanding that they will help file the paperwork at the start of 2024 would be a mammoth Xmas present to everyone. Some parents may give grudging approval. Some won't.

DF and DM were rigidly in the camp that said they would never need POA; nothing would happen to them. It's now 8.5yrs since DF died; 13 months since DM. While DM was in hospital under section (out of control dementia), DF had an accident at home which resulted him being in a coma for five days until he passed. DM's care decisions were therefore taken by her local Social Work team until we went through the courts and got Guardianship. She subsequently spent over 8 years in care homes... From June 2015, every financial transaction on behalf of my DM had to be receipted and recorded without fail and audited via the Guardianship/ probate process. We are hoping for probate to be granted in January 2024.

DH and I did our own POAs in 2015.
Looking back POA would have saved so much effort and so many posts on this forum ...

I think this is a decision for your executor and beneficiaries, not you, you'll be gone. For some people dealing with an estate is a hard task and the money (from the estate) spent on a solicitor is well worth it.

My parents would absolutely not thank me or appreciate this being a Christmas dinner table conversation!

Don't forget, many (most?) LPAs are never used so I wouldn't worry too much about an individual being named in multiple.

You have to be realistic though. I've got some relatives who seem to think I'll be lovingly emptying their house of every last trinket thinking carefully about each one and spending days trailing around banks sorting out accounts. That's not going to happen for the majority of people I'm down as Executor for! You can't specify not to use a solicitor and it'll be up to the Executor(s) whether they choose to spend a % of the estate on getting the solicitor to do it or do it themselves. I know in my circs I'd do one of the people I'm down to do myself, but I know that estate is minimal, no house to sell, only a couple of bank accounts, one straightforward pension, person in care home so no utilities etc to wind up. Whereas the one who has complicated finances, tax return to submit and a house 100 miles away to empty and then sell will be dealt with by the house clearance and solicitor!

You can make it a lot easier for your Executor though by making sure all financial info is together and clear (and not open a million bank accounts chasing interest rates then fail to close any of them as one of my DH's relatives did!), decluttering your house and keeping it well-maintained.

Of course they can USE a solicitor after I die, or even make one executor. But I'm not going to nominate one as executor in my will because that's just stupid.

I've got some relatives who seem to think I'll be lovingly emptying their house of every last trinket thinking carefully about each one

This seems to be what my siblings are expecting me to do with mum's stuff. My sister keeps "helpfully" suggesting good places to sell individual items.
I've told them to let me know what they want to take and I'm getting house clearance in for the rest. They act outraged, but they don't offer to do all the grunt work.

Personally I'm well aware that my shit is of no interest to anyone else.

You can't specify not to use a solicitor and it'll be up to the Executor(s) whether they choose to spend a % of the estate on getting the solicitor to do it or do it themselves.

Of course. But I won't be naming one in my will as executor. That's a different thing.

Don't forget, many (most?) LPAs are never used so I wouldn't worry too much about an individual being named in multiple.

I'm not worried about naming them per se (though obviously you can't just "name" them, they have to know, unlike an executor who doesn't need to know in advance), I'm worried about asking them because they already feel over burdened and have not yet decided on the trusteeship. And even getting the forms sorted, signed, witnessed etc would be a big hassle for us.

I don't want to put them in the position of having to say no. So, I'm going to leave it five years.

I was very relieved that my surviving parent raised the issue with me, having been to an event organised by their local Active Retirement Association about LPAs, and were very proactive about getting it completed.

Maybe, for parents who are in a local active retirement group or similar, suggesting a solicitor who could go in and speak to the group about LPAs and how to set up one up might be a non-threatening way to bring up the topic?

Yes, I found a turning point
was when elderly friends of the person refusing to get a POA had a sudden crisis and ended up with no end of problems because they didn't have one in place! That focussed their minds!

Two things - Martin Lewis highly recommends it.

And Kate Garraway said her life was a nightmare when her husband went into a coma and she couldn’t access any of his money to pay bills.

Both focused my mind on POA.

Yes definitely. Martin Lewis says that they are more important than wills.

Both me and my husband have one (as well as wills)

I have POA for both parents, my godfather, my aunt, my stepmother and my sister. I must get round to sorting out my own, although I don't know who I'd choose.

Thanks for the reminder, OP! Have already started on mine today. Hope I'm not too late as already nearly 68! DP will be doing one too.

I filled out the POA form for myself yesterday. Couldn't be easier. Getting the signatures will be a bit more complicated as one of the attorneys is DS who is living abroad. But there is no rush.

Another issue I have come across with activating my parents' POA (both still have capacity but can be forgetful and now need a bit of help managing their affairs) is that although I had the letter confirming I was registered as an attorney, I do not have a copy of the actual document. Their financial advisers want to see the actual document.

My parents can't find theirs/don't have a copy so I am having to go through the solicitors to get it and it has to be brought out of storage and there is a charge. Only £10 per copy but as there are 2 of them and 2 attorneys it will be £40 and it's a bit annoying.

Maybe it's simpler to retrieve now it can be done online? Anyway something to consider for those going through the process.

Apparently Which magazine offer a service where they will check your application for you, for about £100. Could be a mid point between doing it alone and spending ££ on a solicitor ?

my DPs have been ‘setting them up’ for about two years now 😏. They are over thinking every single point and although they are still entirely with it mentally, they have lost a lot of confidence.

I suspect that for my DPs, it’s a lot harder to set out end of life wishes in the Health and Welfare application when it feels more imminent.

I did mine in a few hours online, and got them registered within a few weeks. One additional big advantage of doing them earlier in life is that you may be better placed to get all the signatures sorted out easily. For example, I got a work colleague to sign to say that I am compos mentis and not being placed under any pressure to make the POA. My parents are racking their brains to think of anyone they can ask, as they live quite an isolated life by choice and they adamantly refuse to pay a professional (which they could readily afford).

I wish I could get my parents to do POA. They are late 80's, not in the best health, but totally refuse a POA.
I have had the conversation many times about what could happen if they suddenly become incapacitated and the outcome of that. But they still refuse.

My 96-year-old mum also flat out refuses to let us arrange POA. Or indeed, to discuss any other serious legal or practical matters that might at some point affect her and our lives. If gently pressed, she becomes either angry or tearful. "Don't bother me with this... I deserve a stress free life at my age!"

My sister and I have tried to explain that not having POA will mean a world of trouble and expense for us if she were to become incapacitated. She has confirmed that she is quite comfortable with that situation! She is currently perfectly compos mentis but all she seems to want to do is talk about relatives and neighbours and repeat tales of her wartime childhood.

We've given up raising the subject now.... she obviously feels like we're bullying her. So exhausting.

She should understand it will mean a world is stress for her. You do not have the money to pay for her, if she ends up in a home she’ll still have to pay all the expenses of her old house because no-one has the authority to make them stop. If she needs new knickers no-one can buy them for her. She’ll be reliant on the charity of others, without access to her own money. And if she is ill, there’ll be no-one who loves her involved in decisions (this is all exaggeration, but needs must)

And don’t couch it in terms of dementia, coma after a traffic accident may be more acceptable.

My dad re-did his will when he was 87, and the solicitor matter-of-factly did the LPAs with him as part of that. DH and did EPAs when we were in our 50s and we’re in the process of replacing them with LPAs. Possibly it’s easier to do when younger, as it’s a theoretical exercise - you don’t really believe you’ll need them, in the same way that many 20 year olds don’t believe they’ll be 80.