All I want for Christmas is ... Power of Attorney sorted

[Mum5net]

For those whose DParents haven't signed POA , Christmas might be a 'window of opportunity' to have the dreaded discussion and suggest that EVERYONE, daughters and sons included, all do their respective POAs in 2024.

Don't spoil your Xmas because of it, but if your elderly parents shows willing, make it a New Year's resolution. An understanding that they will help file the paperwork at the start of 2024 would be a mammoth Xmas present to everyone. Some parents may give grudging approval. Some won't.

DF and DM were rigidly in the camp that said they would never need POA; nothing would happen to them. It's now 8.5yrs since DF died; 13 months since DM. While DM was in hospital under section (out of control dementia), DF had an accident at home which resulted him being in a coma for five days until he passed. DM's care decisions were therefore taken by her local Social Work team until we went through the courts and got Guardianship. She subsequently spent over 8 years in care homes... From June 2015, every financial transaction on behalf of my DM had to be receipted and recorded without fail and audited via the Guardianship/ probate process. We are hoping for probate to be granted in January 2024.

DH and I did our own POAs in 2015.
Looking back POA would have saved so much effort and so many posts on this forum ...

Another one saying do it soon, don't put it off. My parents conpleted their forms in late January but the OPG didn't register until Sept for DF and Nov for DM respectively. Apparently there is a large backlog at the moment. My DF ws admitted to hospital the first week of October and DM hasn't got a clue about their finances so it was a huge relief when both POAs came through and now I can deal.with banks directly instead of hoping blindly there is enough money in their account to pay their bills every month.

It took two years to talk my DM into it, we got it just in the nick of time. I mentioned it one day and got lucky. Once she agreed I was straight round to her place with my sibling and her good friend and the firms. Having it really has been a godsend.

I had it for my mum after dad died, to be honest, though she was pretty incapable (due to illness and hospitalisation) from April this year until she died in October, I didn't really need to wave the POA about, I just got all her passwords and was "her" on her online accounts. So I could pay her bills, check her utilities, etc. If I hadn't been able to access her passwords I suppose I'd have needed it (I could apparently put their app on my phone and set up my own passwords but I just used her phone).

I did lodge it with her main bank (took three goes to get an appointment with her where we could speak to someone helpful) so they copied me on any letters etc.

But I have noone to ask to do mine and it does worry me. I'm single (have a bf but he's really disorganised and terrible with money) and no kids. I have a brother I don't get on with (he's an idiot) and a sister for whom the slightest upset is a major trauma so she'd just go to pieces. She has adult children (my nieces and nephews) who I would choose but they have got them for both of their parents (they are divorced) and they now look like they might have to take on some guardianship of their young step sister. I've also asked them to be trustees for my brother's daughter for the money from mum's estate, so I really don't want to further worry or burden them!

I second it.
When DF died after a short illness mum was in good health and that was the perfect time to suggest it. Something to be done now and put away until it might be needed some day.
I did it myself, it takes a bit of effort but is perfectly doable. At the same time we did them for DH and me with each other and DC as attourneys.

We never needed the financial one for DM as she had capacity until the end but the health and welfare came in handy in her last weeks when her GP sugery were very unhelpful.

I've also asked them to be trustees for my brother's daughter for the money from mum's estate, so I really don't want to further worry or burden them!

Would it help @VanGoghsDog if you considered in your head that they were trustees for their cousin, their own DM's niece, rather than your brother's daughter? Hopefully I've worked that out correctly! Then you wouldn't be burdening them.

Well, it doesn't make the burden any less. Also somewhat complicated by the fact they've never met her (nor have I).

So they have:

POA for their mum (who has no partner so it's just them), not yet needed
POA for their dad who has a partner but she has cancer so it may well fall to them, not yet needed
(Also executor for mother, only niece is executor for the dad for some reason)
If the worst happens, guardianship of step sister who is ten (because their dad will go to pieces)
I've asked them to be trustees for their cousin because I don't want to do it, and mum didn't want my brother to do it so I don't want to hand it over to him. My sister has refused to take it on. This child is five so it's quite a long commitment and would be fairly active. They are thinking about this, it's likely to be needed around the middle of next year.

So, it's a lot. And I don't want to ask them to be POA for me on top. They are my executors but I feel that's less onerous and unless my life goes very weird they'll be rewarded for that (plus I'll be dead so won't have to worry about the impact!).

So, no closer to finding someone to ask for me!

That is a considerable amount.

They don't necessarily have to activate the POA though if they don't feel up to it at the time as they have several others ongoing. If they rescind it then SS would then have to take over. So it would be their choice depending on circumstances at the time.

I hold or will hold soon four POAs, only one of which is currently 'active'. I'm afraid, if it came down to it, and I ended up with all four of them 'active' simultaneously I would be prioritising which ones I agreed to - you can rescind at any time. None of my four live in the same area, adding to the potential for chaos, and I have to be realistic about it. The worst case scenario is they're all active at same time, the reality is that some of them will probably never be needed or only for a short time.

So why not ask them, get it set up, but know when it comes down to it they have the choice whether to act on it or not?

Do you mean that you paid a solicitor to say your MIL was capable of agreeing to POA when if fact she was "out of control with dementia"?

Yes, I understand all that. All of us also live in different locations. I'd not considered that aspect which makes it even more unlikely they'd be able to do much to help me.

Their parents are both older than me, and their mother invents has various health problems.

The fact is, statistically, they are likely to need to use their parents' (and the other stuff) before mine. And they would rightly prioritise their parents.

I just don't want to even ask them to consider it right now while I've asked them to consider being trustee for the child and they've not decided yet. That role will be a lot more difficult.

And there's not much point having a POA who is pretty likely to have to rescind. They'll probably have kids soon too so it would be quite a burden. I'm 55, I know it's not necessarily an age thing, but I'll think about it when I'm 60!

Totally agree with this. Luckily my DM saw what my DH and I went through with his parents and agreed about 10 years ago (when she was mid 70's) to do hers. She's 84 now and although certainly still has capacity she has some memory issues. I've been looking after all her finances for a couple of years now and it's reassuring to know her POA is in place for when needed.

My DH and I did our POA's a couple of years ago even though our DS is only 24. We are in our early 60's and although it's uncomfortable doing it, once it's done you can just forget about it. He's an only child so we wanted to make things as easy as possible for him.

I'm hoping to do this for both of my parents in the New Year. Can anyone help me with a couple of questions please?
Is it all on line or do forms have to be printed, signed and scanned in?
Does it cost more to add extra attorneys? I want to do one for me and DH too with each other as attorneys but wondered if it was worth also adding our adult DCs on?
Thanks

They can also renounce the executorship, very easily. So everything to do you is contingent on them having the energy when the time comes

It’s on-line, but once you’ve filled it in, you have to print the forms to get them signed. They don’t yet support electronic signatures.

or you can print the forms and fill them in by hand.

There is no extra cost for extra attorneys. There’s space on the form for 4 attorneys and 4 replacement attorneys. Once you’ve lost capacity you won’t be able to add attorneys, so sensible to have all the people you trust on the form now, either as attorney or as replacement attorney. I’ve got DH and DS2, with DS1 as replacement

Obviously I know that. They're not very likely to renounce executorship of their own parents, are they?

I've actually already made my sister and niece my executors with nephew as a reserve. So it's a lot for them, even just having to renounce all this stuff is a lot of stress. And as they are my beneficiaries they would still have to interact with whoever was doing it.

Rather than trying to get me to add more responsibility onto my poor beleaguered niece and nephew, are there any suggestions for someone else I could use?

Yes. Well worth it. It took about five months to come through but you absolutely do not have to go through a solicitor. You just need a family friend to countersign the forms.

You will then have to register the PoA with the bank, local authority etc. They all have different procedures. Some will accept the access code which is generated by the gov website. Others need you to attend in person and sign loads more forms. But definitely worth doing.

A solicitor can hold POA for someone, although obviously this is charged for. It might be worth your relatives having your health POA and the financial one being with a solicitor who can then handle all the financial side of it.

Same with executorship. You can name a solicitor as executor or the executor can get a solicitor to deal with the estate.

So glad that both sets of parents did theirs a few years ago. We knew nothing about the process at all. They researched it and sorted it. Luckily we haven’t had to use them but after reading some of the posts about this on mumsnet, I’m so relieved they have.

Completely agree!! Also, although not very festive please discuss what the 'end' might look like?
As a nurse I often come across families who have never talked about how and where they wish to die.
It's so much harder to talk about it when a crisis happens.

Have a look for someone participating in Will Aid or a specific charity offering it.

PIL had theirs done for a donation (plus the actual fees) by a company through the Maggies centre they used. I still see them advertising it every now and again at certain times of the year.

DH and I done ours in a similar way with a solicitor giving their time to a different charity in return for people giving a donation.

Having experienced this with in-laws, DH and I organised POA for us before we were sixty, so our children don't have that hassle. We have POA for each other then our children have it for each of us. It makes so much sense our eldest said he would do the same and sort it out way before he needed it!

@VanGoghsDog Obviously I know that If it were obvious I wouldn't have bothered to tell you. Strangely, I was trying to help. Silly me.

I definitely don't want a solicitor dealing with my estate when I die, well at least not as the actual executor, it costs so much. I think they usually require a % of the estate.

With mum's, I've got a solicitor lined up to help me with the probate forms and selling the house. So the costs will be minimised.

But a solicitor as financial POA could work. I'll look into that.

I don't understand how you could have read my posts on this thread and came away thinking I didn't know this very well known fact.

Possibly because I didn’t commit your posts to memory in case I might in the future want to answer one, and I didn’t go back reading every single one of them before I answered.

Maybe a similar reason to why you could have read my posts on this and other threads and come to the conclusion I was just trying to irritate you?

And just perhaps it could have been useful for someone else reading the thread?

You could have just ignored my post. You didn’t have to pile it on as you did. I shall try to avoid responding to any of your posts in the future and hope you will do the same for mine.