Parents staying in large & unsuitable house - anything we should do to futureproof?

[movemamamove]

My siblings and I have been trying to persuade my folks to downsize and move somewhere less rural/closer. They've made vaguely positive noises but it's clear they don't actually want to go move so these conversations have just become difficult and frankly pointless.

We won't raise the subject of moving again but they don't seem to acknowledge they are aging and that a big house miles from anyone (including all of us) won't be suitable forever & if they want to stay maybe we should look at doing a few adjustments whilst it's not urgent. Both 80 and until a year ago very fit, well & young for their age but a minor stroke & for Dad and mum needing both a thyroid & hip op has aged them and they are much slower, far less mobile and less social.
Is there any thing practical we could be doing now to save frantic running around if/when one takes seriously ill or dies leaving the other one stranded and along. Anyone else been in this situation who can offer general advice about getting them to talk about aging, death, practicalities?

Declutter.

In particular - clear out the attic!

They’ve done wills and POA. You’ve all tried to persuade them to move before.

They know.

Drop it now. It’s presumptuous of you to assume that they aren’t having these discussions together or thoughts individually. Stop talking and listen for hints and overtures.

Adaptations to the house in advance of them being needed may actually be counterproductive in that it will encourage them to stay where they are.

A funeral plan in place
Health & financial Power of attorney
Will

These are the most important ones, as other stuff can be arranged as needed. I have and continue to have this conversation with my mother. She's really open to it which really helps! She also has all her paperwork / financial affairs well organised in a filing system, and I know what is what.

Downstairs shower, as well as loo. Also stair lift became a life line to my Nan before she died, and I know you can also get a lift put in a big house quite easily, basically through the ceiling! Lastly things like hearing insurance with British Gas make life easier than having to find people to fix stuff.

Make it clear that you will be unable to help them much unless they are closer.

After a lot of nagging, my Mum theoretically did all the right things (i.e. moved to retirement flat near my sister, set up LPA, etc.). However, now she has dementia and several health conditions which has necessitated lots of medical appointments. She can't manage these herself or get herself to the appointments. She can't manage her own shopping and struggles to use anything other than the microwave, TV and landline. She has carers but still requires a lot of input from me and my sister. She still has capacity and point blank refuses to move to a care home.

I live an hour away and am currently there three or four times a week. It's all very well for people to say let them get on with it but it is very difficult to do that in practice. Sadly, we are at the stage now that we have to let her fail which is horrible but the situation will break us otherwise.

Adaptations to the house in advance of them being needed may actually be counterproductive in that it will encourage them to stay where they are. you could even try a little creative sabotage. Disable the central heating boiler. Remove a couple of tiles from the roof.

Personally i'd say they've left it too late to move, who wants to move in their 80's. I'd let them stay where they are happy but do all you can to make life easier, and it sounds like you know what you're doing. Clearing out is the hardest part but you've started that too. When 1 goes, the other may want to then move to something smaller, or with help on site.

I could’ve written your post six months ago. My parents were almost in the exact same situation. Kind of muddling along just about okay but causing concern and we were starting to gently talk about getting some help. Also living in an absolutely crazy house, far far too big for their needs, rurally located, about the most inaccessible in terms of stairs you could possibly imagine!

What I would say to you is that things can change very quickly. My dad was just about looking after my mum who has dementia, but then he got Covid and didn’t recover well and was totally unable to care for her and we went from them having not even weekly cleaner to full time live in care within 2 weeks.
It was all a bit of a shock to everyone. And it would’ve been better if we had been able to have a planned discussion about their care needs. Also have had time to do a thorough research around the local agencies. Although I would say that the one that we ended up with is absolutely excellent.

My dad lost capacity to manage their finances, house insurances, bills, medicines, medical appointments, the list is quite long! And all this needs to be picked up. It sounds as if we are in quite a similar position of the extremely lucky that our parents can afford live in care. But don’t underestimate the amount of admin that this involves, as there are carer change overs every couple of weeks, and all the admin mentioned above.

But saying that, I wouldn’t change it for the world. Especially for my mum. Be able to stay in the home that they’ve been in for many years and are very familiar with is worth it’s weight in gold. And someone else said, having a big house is really a blessing when you have a live in carer as privacy as a couple can be maintained.

I wish you all the luck in the world and I hope you have other family support as I do as it’s a huge help

DH and I are now in our 70s. Both fit and healthy although I had double mastectomy a couple of years ago.
Our house is too big, it’s at the top of a hill with the only bus service at the bottom of the hill. The garden is too big.
We bought the house with a bungalow where dd and children live now (my dad did previously).
So we have future proofed as much as possible. We could have two bedrooms downstairs and still have a living room and sun room. I am looking into stealing a corner from one of the downstairs rooms to make the cloakroom into a shower room. DH says he never wants to leave but I could walk away tomorrow as long as I could stay close to DD and DGC. A lock up and leave small cottage would do me. A bit of outside space but NO garden!
Our wills are done, Enduring Power of Attorney set up for both health and finances. My file has funeral wishes in as well. DH is firmly in the denial camp about that!
We looked after 3 oldies to the end, two died at home with us. I have no illusions. I want to be looked after in a home!

Can you get the house set up for elderly folks - move bedrooms, put in chair lift, adapt bath to a walk-in (we got this for MIL and she is so happy), get alarm buttons/camera doorbells installed, etc. there are loads of devices and advice on websites that sell accessible goods.

Mum downright refused to put in a lift (she had the flipping money and the room) or change the house around (she could have made the top floor into a flat (we tried to get her to do this so she could have a live in nurse), keep the second as family rooms, live on the ground floor (lots of rooms) but no, stubborn to the end! We got her to sell the land as it was no use to her and the upkeep was high.

She bought a large flat close to my sister and hated every minute of it.

Ask your parents, and all of their children, to read Being Mortal. They can then make choices based on their thoughts arising from reading it. It is a good catalyst for a discussion. I think all people of 40+ and those with elderly parents should read it.

Have a chat with your siblings about what would happen in certain circumstances - for example if one became dependant on the other and that person needed to go into hospital or died. Would they move near one of you? Are there any well rated residential or nursing homes near them if emergency respite was needed? Have you got keys for entry into their house if needed or a key safe? Decluttering is good to do, it will have to be done sometime. POA, knowing their wishes for treatment escalation and limits, knowing funeral wishes. Do they have a funeral plan, who is it with? Do you know who they bank with? Do they have a solicitor?

I’m lucky that my 80 year old parents decluttered and downsized into a bungalow. My dad is starting to get very forgetful and has had frequent falls- my mum does everything for him. We have spoken to her (but if she wasn’t amicable to discussing these things we would have thought about it between us siblings) and she knows he would have to go into respite or residential care if anything happened to her. She was able to suggest a good one based on recommendations from friends. It’s helpful to know that we have a plan for what would happen in that situation- which hopefully will never happen! We wouldn’t be scrambling around trying to decide on somewhere or feeling guilty for not providing care ourselves. My parents are quite pragmatic about aging and death- we all know where ‘the folder’ is which has the will and funeral plans in.

'Read this book Dad, it's called You Are Going To Die Soon and Here is a List of Many, Many, Horrible Ways It Will Happen'.

'Ah, no thanks. I'd prefer bumbling along until there's actually a problem, rather than being plunged into an existential crisis because everybody else wants to focus upon how much easier it will be for them if I sign over my independence (and savings) to them before booking a ticket to Switzerland'.

My FIL got dementia and MIL had never dealt with any of the finances - we had quite a job sorting out all their investments, bills etc after discovering he hadn't been coping with any of it for about a year. He had kept some paperwork (well filed up until the dementia set in) right back to their marriage - 60 years before! Thankfully by the time he died we had most of it worked out - and a lot of the old stuff disposed of.

Consequently we regularly give each of our adult children an up-to-date list of all our investments, bank account details, savings etc. so that they won't have to do the detective work we had to...

In other ways they had planned very well - moved to a bungalow on their retirement which was on a good bus route and easy short level walk to shops and a nice park.

I lost my dad last year unexpectedly (he was in his 70's and still very fit although had a few health issues). Luckily my mother lives locally. He had a will set out but my mum has had a huge struggle sorting out the finances, changing things over, shares etc.

She lives in a big 4 bedroom house. Dad was the hoarder and the house is/was FULL of crap. She wants to downsize but it's impossible to do quickly. We have already got rid of a huge skip full but there's so much more to do. I wish there was some sort of plan in place before Dad passed away. Dad was amazing and was a huge planner in every other aspect of life, except what would happen when he passed on!

Its easier to help my mother because we live locally, I couldn't imagine what would happen if we didn't.

I can’t imagine someone wanting to keep having conversations with me about how rubbish my life might get soon. If their finances are sorted and you have LPOA in place, let them enjoy their lives instead of encouraging them to start wrapping it up. You’ll cross bridges as you come to them, and no one’s parents owe them a compromised life in case their adult children end up with “running around” to do.

My mother is 80 and my father 81 and they are still very active - dad goes to the gym 3 or 4 times a week and he is fitting out our utility room next week! I have noticed though that they are becoming more elderly particularly dm who had a health scare a couple of months ago. They recently took my youngest two (dd15, ds 20) to France for a week and my dc said they spent a lot of time getting ready to go out while normally they are up and out.
Their house is twice as big as ours and they have started going through their things and getting rid of stuff. I don't think dm would want to downsize and they are both very social, volunteer with numerous charities, organise events etc. They only live about 15 minutes walk from me.
They don't have a Will or a LPA but they are both good with computers and the Internet etc. They have a downstairs shower room, toilet and a room that could be converted into a bedroom. It is a worry especially as my db has health issues and has to be considered

You’ll cross bridges as you come to them, and no one’s parents owe them a compromised life in case their adult children end up with “running around” to do.
50% of the threads on this board are about 'running around' some of which is extreme. Many forced to 'run around' quite often end up unwell themselves.

I completely agree that badgering older parents to downsize their lives is not helpful.

And while it might be useful to be aware of various aids and opportunities it isn’t wise to start installing things before they are needed. It is detrimental to stop walking upstairs while you are still able, and a stairlift can be a nightmare if dementia sets in. Ditto any fancy toilet with a spray mechanism. Oh Lordy! And so on.

But @Manthide I would be deeply concerned that your highly able active sensible parents have not written wills or set up LPA. I am not elderly and have these.

I agree with decluttering and getting all financial documents etc in place, but if they don’t want to move and they’re happy as they are don’t force it on them as the stress of moving could be just too much for them. It’s great that they clearly have such a loving and supportive family & you’re thinking of all eventualities.
My grandparents moved next door to my mum so she one day she’d be able to support them when needed, they went from a bungalow to a 3 bed house when they were in their early 70’s my grandparents health improved as they were up and down the stairs and doing more exercise, we unfortunately lost my grandad when he was 78 (15yrs ago) and thought my nan would follow not long after, my nan is now 91 and has her health problems but only had extra bannisters and a shower chair installed this year and she’s kept herself moving and knows she’s got the support of all her family. With my mum now in her early 70’s xx

(p.s.) I'm in Belgium, and the trend here is to nót go into care but to adapt the own house to the new needs. Most people want to stay at home, and with all the possibilities of adapting the bed-and bathroom, to have food delivered, to have a cleaner and even a nurse come by for medical needs, why not? I wouldn't want to move! You say your parents have the space ánd the money to continue living at home with some assistence, so let them! They would probably not be happy in a small(er) place far away from where they feel they belong. What I think is important is that your parents are clear of mind, they know what they're doing, they act of their own free will. It's not because people age that they become irresponsable. Of course in families where dementia is involved other measures have to be taken, because then the burden to the healthy partner can become to much.

If your parents are anything like mine, having the cash to fund stuff doesn’t even matter! It’s getting around the stubborn independence! Even when my mum was chair bound on end of life care, they refused any help at all! She has since passed & my dad is still an independent, stubborn old bugger! Lol! I would look into what help may be available locally in terms of care etc, should they need or & ideas of prices etc, so you can give them an idea & start planting the seed! Definitely get them both online savvy so far as banking and shopping because that’s a big one. Things like emergency alarms too incase they need help due to a fall or ill health (still battling this one!)

My parents were like this.

Fortunately they renovated while spritely to include a wet room/shower next to the bedroom (downstairs). This enabled my very ill mother to live out most of her final days there with Dad. Carers will not visit to help shower etc unless the facilities are okay.
Now Dad can comfortably shower.
He has made the kitchen more older person friendly (slow cooker, microwave) and gets in a cleaner.
Consider what to do if they can't drive?
For a small period this occurred.
Utilizing local service to medical appointments and shopping is fine while your parents are mentally and physically well however it is wise to accompany your parent to medical appointments so that you can take notes, put strategies into place and take all into consideration for when to have next appointment. Factor in phyically being there.
Consider having accommodation upstairs for a live in carer /driver and or more family visits due to necessity.
Keep the home in good order - clean the gutters etc.
Look into having a push button alarm system on a necklace.

I think they've left it too late. My DPs have just done it and they're 10 yrs younger (although with health problems) and it was almost too much for them.

I think concentrating on decluttering, putting in a downstairs bathroom, looking into transport is the best thing to do now.

Yes THIS. Get a cleaner and gardener in now if possible, so when carers are needed it's less of a big jump. It also means for now that more people are regularly checking your parents are ok, make sure they have your number just in case.

With the best will in the world, you can't make people do what they don't want to do, and shouldn't.

From what you describe, your parents aren't the sociable types who would thrive in a retirement complex or get along with others in a care home. From what we were advised some years ago, 24 hour carers can be cost effective compared to nursing home care if that is required, assuming you have the space for it and are self-paying - so I'd park that as a potential scenario in the back of your mind.

The stuff that does need to be sorted out in advance - LPOA etc - sounds to be under control.

My mother (a few years older than your parents, and with some medical issues) has just, finally, downsized and is now 3 and 4 hours from me and my siblings rather than the other side of the world, in a rural area ... Relatives have been skeptical of her plans for years and told us to talk her out of it (vociferously in the case of one family whose mother ended up very isolated there some 20 years ago). But it is clear that any further attempt to solve a problem before it occurs will probably solve the wrong problem in the wrong way. We really will have to wait until (and if) there is a need and then work out what to do at that point. I don't think she is going to suffer from the isolation, as being able to be on her own and quiet and answerable to no-one else is something she loves because she has so often had to be the opposite.

I do think it is good to be clear on what you yourselves can do, and can't do, so you know where your own boundaries may need to be.

In my case I've mentioned that if we move in the next few years (possible) I'd be looking out for somewhere with an annex or similar as a backup, so that we could offer shorter or longer term support "if anything happens". As a general idea that has been accepted and it has certainly proved useful in reassuring more distant relatives ...