FIL coming on family holidays

[mids2019]

I may have moaned about this before but my FIL is now coming with us on our annual summer vacations upon invitation if my partner

For context my FIL is 74 and been widowed for about 7 years. I initially accepted that having him on a summer trip was a really nice gesture in terms of overcoming grief. However it now is now becoming apparent my partner's idea of a summer vacation one is a 'family' one where my FIL will be welcome

I am nearing the end of our summer vacation in the US and I have to admit it hadn't been entirely enjoyable. FIL tried to take the lead in family decisions, told children off in my opinion unnecessarily, assumed a sort of patriarchal role where I think he felt he was taking the family on holiday and criticised some of our holiday activity decisions.

I have to add his health is not optimal and this has lead to a restriction on some of our joint activities. There is also a generation gap between him and my children (13 and 11) which is hard to bridge; this is understandable but the critisicm of young girls' CV choice in music, food choice, clothing, internet use etc was wearisome.

Ultimately it is a sense of encroaching family space that I found really difficult. We have stressful lives and the summer vacation is to the only real relatively stress free prolonged family to one we have and that has been compromised.

One week we had to have shared accomodation with FIL where although he was in separate bedroom did not exactly promote any attempts of the romantic type between my partner and myself.

We need to have a conversation but has anyone been in a similar situation?

@Unexpecteddrivinginstructor

Good advice. If GP take care of younger children to allow parents a break that can be really helpful. We have a situation where FIL is effectively observing the family dynamic with a teenager and offering unsolicited opinions - not the same thing

@mids2019 my FIL tried that one time by complaining about women football commentators- what do they know about football etc etc . I went through him like a ton of bricks. He hasn't done it again !

Thought your FIL sounded much older! My DP have come with us a couple.of times, also had one of my DBs join us once for a few days but they absolutely accepted it was our main holiday (not DPs just an nice extra) so let us set the agenda & gave us some space for at least part of each day. Don't think my now teens would tolerate this at all, even if we're visiting them for a few days DPs accept that teens will need a bit of space to do their own thing without any adults criticising them constantly (they don't btw)

We fell into this exact trap when my father died. DH suggested we took DM with us on holiday, and to start with it worked really well. Then as the years went on she got more and more awkward and more and more stroppy.

We had a big US holiday which she spoilt because all she wanted to do was sit by the pool, which would have been fine except she wanted ME to sit with her. I don't do sitting, which she is well aware of. She didn't even give us 5 minutes alone in 10 days, and got really angry one evening because I had gone to the laundry, taking DH and leaving the kids, and she "didn't know where we were." (The kids told her...). She also wanted to be in charge and deciding what we were going to do, but as soon as anything went wrong she was looking at us to sort it out.

We then stupidly didn't learn our lesson and took her to Centre Parks. Again she didn't want to go in any of the restaurants we wanted to go in, made a fuss about every little thing and was just such hard work that we haven't invited her again.

Every so often she'll mention that she doesn't have anyone to go with, but I refuse to fall for it again. We get ONE holiday a year, if we are lucky, and even while all this was going on she would have 4 or 5 trips away as well either on her own or with different people.

My sibling refuses point blank to take her anywhere.

I'm widowed and on holiday with my DDs, their partners and the grandkids right now.
Having been the holiday 'leader' for most of their lives, it does take a lot of work on my part to stand back and let them be the organisers and planners. My DGCs are pre- school age, so easy compared to being on holiday with tens/pre-teens, but I still stand back from decisions about them (of course) while making it clear that I'm happy to help with them, and generally just aiming to be good fun to be with.

But yes, it is a bit of an odd feeling when you have to make that change from being the person in charge, to being the tag-along.

I'm just enormously grateful that my kids, as well as having their own separate holidays, try to arrange a few days away with each other and me, and it seems to be with genuine pleasure that they invite me and not just sufference. So my aim is to ensure that I don't do anything to make them regret it.

Have been away recently with dc and dgc and it was fine however no son in law or my dh were present, which I felt did help. My dc and I get on well together and have similar views wrt to children’s behaviour

@AncientQuercus

I can relate to your post and I do hope we are not on a similar direction of travel. I think we have a similar situation that as GP become more elderly they are reluctant to engage in more 'adventurous' elements of the holiday yet possibly request (demand?) company more.

With three generations we found satisfying everyone is nigh impossible and just ends up with no one really satisfied 🤷

@saraclara

Thank you for the view from the 'other side'. I think you seem very self aware about changes in family dynamic and are conscious about changes in roles, personal space etc.

I think part of the challenge is that my FIL isn't as self aware of finds this change a challenge or even unecessary.

I think there is apart if him who wishes the world was back in the 70s and 80s and he is a little frustrated with things like our internet usage to guide our vacations as this takes away some of his agency in 'finding the lay of the land' on vacation.

I think things may be different when you have two living spouses for GP as they are company for each other obviously and the holiday can be resolved into meeting up at certain points e.g. meals out for a bit of socialising.

I think the major thing is the lack of spouse means FIL does not have an obvious space to discuss/disagree with things.

Does your dh want to bring your mother on holidays? I think not! This can't continue. Your dcs are teens so the number of family holidays left is limited. Suggest dh and fil go somewhere for a weekend to a place specifically geared to Fil. Maybe his other son would do the same at janother date. If one of your dc enjoy that place they could join in knowing fil is the focus.
We never brought either GPS on holidays but had them staying with us regularly. But no way on holidays..they are too special for families so unless it absolutely suits everyone it's not on.

Could your husband suggest a father/son trip next year separately, and transition to doing that sometimes instead? Maybe you could make your next holiday something unappealing to him - maybe something very active.

@junebirthdaygirl

I think you have an important point about the limited opportunities for family holidays as your children get older and want to do their own things (naturally).

I think one fear is that all of their holiday memories are going to be tied into FIL and I do think this is unfair. Is selfish to think of a holiday as 'us' time (including our children)?

I think it is totally possible to have an enjoyable multi-generation holiday but not with your family dynamic.

For it to work you need:
Grandparents to understand they are grandparents and not parents
Ability for the group to split and do different activities for different ages without recriminations that someone was 'left out' of something they didn't want to do anyway

I agree with this - although I am coming from the Grandparents point of view. I have had a few family holidays with My daughter, her partner and my Grandson. Not every year though. The last 2, we paid for the self-catering accommodation and then it was up to them whether they wanted to join us. Which they did!

But it worked very, very well, because it was very much agreed before hand that we would do our own thing for the most part. If we all wanted to do the same thing, then we would do it together. On occasion we took my Grandson somewhere while his parents had some time to themselves, because they didn't fancy it and we ( and our Grandson) did.

Quite often we would eat separately, because they liked to eat about 5pm and we normally eat later and might have eaten while we were out sometimes. We all got on very well and the holidays were great.

I don't believe it would have worked if we had all tried to do everything together ( including meal times) and the family dynamic here, doesn't sound a good one

@aSofaNearYou

Could do.

I expect I would be told this was deliberately exclusionary though.

We tried doing a few exploratory days on holiday but other half was saying FIL was in doors on his own all day 🤷

@Silvers11

Sounds great

I think one major thing is that holidaying with GPs is different to holidaying with a w single widowed GP.

Time doing your own thing means FIL is on his own and I think there is an emotional drag on my partner to not allow this to happen.

Every day we have a text from FIL asking for 'the plan' for the day i.e. a plan including us all.

Yes - I hadn't thought of that angle. It must be very wearing for you. I do agree that you need to have a talk with your DH and try to get out of the expectation that FIL always comes on holiday with you. You are not being in the slightest bit selfish for wanting your family unit to have time together and not have to consider FIL's wants and abilities

I agree that there is a big difference going away with one GP vs. both GPs.

Having taken my DM away with us a couple of times, it is hard work. I felt torn between keeping her happy, husband happy, kids happy. If she had come along with a partner/ husband, then it would have been easier just to say- you do your thing, we'll do ours. You can't really say this when it's just one person though, because you're actually just saying 'we want time without you'.

My mum was widowed in her late 60s and did feel very lonely as all her friends were married. We tended to take her on long weekend breaks rather than big family holidays. Our DC were younger too, I think it would be much harder with teenagers.

It sounds like your partner feels a lot of guilt and obligation towards his father. I think a gentle discussion around balancing his role as a father and son would be helpful. 74 is not that old, his dad would probably benefit from trying to develop some hobbies and interests rather than being infantilised as someone who needs ‘looking after’. Once our DC got a bit older and busier my mum stopped centring her life around us quite so much and had a really rewarding and active social life from her mid-70s to mid-80s. She had very busy and active friends in their 90s still living independently.

Your children only have a few years left of wanting to go on family holidays guaranteed this will make that come round earlier. This is something you will regret once there older. insist on husband taking him alone as they couldn’t do things they wanted to and they have already had enough holidays with grandad dictating the plans. Once your home book next year’s holiday without grandad tell husband to book his own with his father.

What does your DH think about the holiday OP?

We’ve done a few 3 generation holidays with my FIL - not doing any more.

@Remaker

74 being old.....yes and no.

FIL is mentally competent though I would argue slowly declining in some respects.

He does have (or had) hobbies such as golf and is an avid sports watcher but I think his interest in golf has decreased with him playing more poorly now.

I think (maybe like all of us) he overestimates his general strength and energy a little which is a challenge.

I think a big problem is that he is very much in the comfort zone with my partner and GC so maybe is unwilling to try expanding his social outlets?

I also think my partner, FIL and extended family feel this is the natural state of holidays with this family arrangement. I think to he children are being sold the narrative 'GD has no one now and given he has supported his children for a significant portion of life it is now our responsibility to make him happy'.

I am worried about how to frame conversations with people about this without being the bad guy

How about next year you book a weekend away somewhere with FIL and tell him thats his holiday as your main family break this year is an activity/camping/themepark/skiing whatever you want to do that he cant. Might help the first year relieving the expectation and then can try to make that the new pattern.

Or do a cruise - plenty for all ages to do, plenty of other singles and older people to keep him company, and loads for the kids to do. Might give you all a holiday but with some peace too.

I honestly don't feel anyone has any obligation to bring their parents (singular or plural) on holidays. So he doesn't get a holiday, so what? Billions of people in the world don't either. He is retired presumably and has lots of free time so the notion that busy working parents have to tie themselves in knots to give him a break (from what?) or a good time just doesn't compute with me. I'd be horrified if my children felt that obligation towards me when they are adults, different of course if they and we got on great and actively shared interests and all found it very mutually satisfying. A much better scenario in your case OP, and as suggested by others, would be for your husband, time and money permitting, to bring your FIL away for a few days to do or watch something he is interested in and where they can remininisce to their hearts content without being annoyed by teenagers. The typical length of a family holiday is, in my view, too long to spend with anyone other than one's own core family, where people can genuinely relax and be themselves (including grumpy!), listen to the music they like and just 'be'. Geography permitting, shorter but more frequent interactions (e.g. he comes for supper once a week or every 2 weeks) are surely better than this overload.

I think a fortnight is way too long even if you were all getting along together reasonably well.

Ask your DC what their favourite bit of a holiday is, and book a long weekend/week just doing that without your FIL, possibly even without your DH. Then tell your DH to organise a week, preferably short haul, that he thinks his Dad would enjoy. Don't do any of the admin for that holiday and try to persuade the DC to just go with the flow as it's short and they have already had a treat holiday.

Have a gap between the two holidays, back to back might be a bit exhausting.

I used to go on holiday with mine when she was first widowed but it was pretty grim - I was single so no one else to please but it was all centred around her interests and what she could/wanted to do. I kind of got sucked into it as felt sorry for her initially then it became a habit/expectation! I haven't been on holiday with her since marrying and having a family as I don't want to put them through that. Plus the expectations of what everyone wants from a holiday wouldn't be compatible.

But there are plenty of opportunities for holidays with people at a similar life stage - mine went on these before getting infirm, so she was having far more holidays than me! There are coach trips within the U.K., further afield trips on a plane. There are travel agents who specialise in this market. It's with a load of strangers though so there is a certain element of having to behave and not being a grumpy wotsit ruining everyone else's holiday.