Court of protection deputyship

[rhetorician]

hello - after much to-ing and fro-ing (I'll spare you the details which will be all too familiar to most of you) my mum is in discharge to assess waiting for a permanent residential placement. She is a self-funder (and her assets are quite significant, though her income is small) and I need to apply to the CoP for deputyship. This should be straightforward - she owns her house outright and I am her sole beneficiary and NOK. But I'm wondering if anyone knows how long the process might take? The issue is that until the order is granted I can't use the house to generate income and she will just be burning through her capital.

I guess I should also take some in the round financial advice, given that whilst she has dementia, she is otherwise fairly medically well for an 89 year old...

TIA

Perhaps you've expressed yourself differently than you intended, then? Almost all your justifications for potential decisions are about your children having property in London, you having people to meet up with when you visit, etc.

I’m glad the temporary home suits her!

My mum and dad expressed a preference to stay local for their care home. But this wasn’t written into the LPA (whilst things like how to deal with end of life care were).

My dad is in a local care home, in line with what we talked about years ago. However, it could be argued that his interests would be better served if he was nearer me and DBro, because we could visit more often. You could make the case either way and I think the OPG would consider either argument reasonable, if they ever asked.

(Obviously, shipping dad to an unsuitable home with high fees if my best friend ran it would be a conflict, but not a decision like OP is making!)

@Lougle OP also says this:

“plus at least in London there's a slim possibility that someone other than me might occasionally visit her. She's lived in London all her life and is now close to where her parents and sisters are buried and that matters to her. Realistically she isn't going to run out of money unless she lives to be 100”

I slightly resent the implication that I would not act in her best interest! I've never done anything else. You not only have to act in her best interest, you have to be able to demonstrate if the question arises that you have acted in her best interests not your own.

Saying that London means you are able to travel to see her, to check on her welfare, etc, is clearly in her interests.

Adding that you have friends in London who you can visit at the smae time muddies the water a bit.

Yes, what I meant was that there are potentially implications down the line, but these aren't the driver for the decision making. My point is only that I need to make decisions that ensure that her needs and best interests are taken care of for the rest of her life. And given that I live in a different country (post-Brexit which adds further complexity) I'm not sure that her best interests would be served by moving her close to me.

I apologise if it came across badly - I've spent the last 2 years moving hell and high water to respect my mothers wishes to stay in her own home as long as possible. I've been gone every 2nd or 3rd weekend. tbqh none of this is what she would want - her own mother had early onset Alzheimer's and my my mother always said, "if that happens to me, please take me out and shoot me".

I am full of confusion, sadness and guilt, and just trying to figure out what is the best thing to do in a circumstance where I feel very alone.

I appreciate all of your comments - even the ones I didn't like! - these are all helpful in terms of clarifying what decisions I am making and why.

Fair enough - but this is not the court of protection! Those things are just accidental side effects at the end of the day. Ease of access for welfare and social visits is the key thing.

No it’s not the Court of Protection, and saying things anonymously on here is fine, even though it may get you critical comments. But best not say it to a Social Worker

True! Thank you. Have just read through the DOLS reports and clearly mum thinks she's fine and can just go home. Sigh.

That fees quote sounds crazy! I went through the process of getting COP deputyship with a solicitor and total fees were around £3k. This was in 2016. Took quite a few months to be granted though.

Sorry, I was under the impression that where she currently is living is not convenient.

Perhaps I put it clumsily. I’m thinking of my stepfather, who’s in a home with advanced dementia. He has no visitors apart from my sister and I. He gets very very upset when we visit because he thinks I am my mum - his wife. In fact, the manager at the home has suggested that we limit our visits to monthly as he can be really distraught for days afterwards - it seems too cruel to visit. He’s not got a clue who we are. if I’m completely honest, we visit out of a sense of obligation rather than of any fondness.
If he were asked about what he wants (part of his DOLs assessment asks him this) he says he wants to go and live with his mother back in Scotland. She died when he was a boy and he only lived in Scotland until he was 5. When he was first diagnosed with Parkinson’s / Lewy Body dementia, he was adamant he wouldn't go into a care home.

@Soontobe60 apologies - she is currently on a temp placement about a mile from her house. My intention is for her to stay in London- at the moment there are a few people,besides me who live locally and mostly don't have transport who would visit her. I can get to London relatively easily for visits (my list was only that there are lots of flights each day so more flexibility around work/ kids/ partner).

Someone made the point that outside London would,be cheaper and chances are that in the relatively near future she won't know where she is. But I've no car in the uk so accessibility is a key factor in fulfilling my obligations - currently I am RPR and have to maintain regular contact, as I will as a deputy if granted

To be perfectly honest, if your mum is concerned about where her care home is located, then does she not still have some capacity? In which case, applying for Deputyship isn’t appropriate.
However, if she does meet the criteria for Deputyship, then without sounding crass, where she lives would be irrelevant.

DM is entitled to a private family life and a life in her community under The Human Rights Act; even though, she does not have mental capacity to make complex decisions. We know because this question has been discussed by us, the CCG, an independent advocate, the care home and the DOLs team over DD, for the last three years.

I am a professional who assesses capacity, and my DH in office of the public guidance dealing with POAs and deputyships.

They are very different.

I am advocating strongly that your mother has an IMCA ( independent mental capacity advocate) because i feel like her wishes are best interests are being lost.

Ok. On what basis do you say that? Her DOLS assessment is clear that she doesn't have capacity and that residential care is in her best interest. I am using the guidance various professions have given me, and my own experience of her being at home with a full package of care.

I would like nothing more than for her to be able to live independently with support, but that is not what anyone who has dealt with her over the last 6 weeks is advocating.

She is a self-funder, so I need to take some financial advice as to the best course of action to support her care.

@IfOnlyOurEyesSawSouls just to add she has been assessed by:

• social worker
• DOLS assessor
• consultant psychiatrist
• GP
• memory clinic assessor

Are these not IMCAs?

No, they are not. The local authority where DM is, should be able to provide an IMCA - they may well subcontract it out to an independent organisation like Voiceability or Pohrer. You need to ask the DOLs team to make a referral to whatever organisation DM’s local authority uses, for her to have an IMCA. The IMCA should seek to get DM’s views about where she wants to live, or what she wants; and then they produce a written report.

I seem to have inadvertently got into a terrible tangle over all of this through trying to ask some basic questions.

I only want to act in my mother's best interests - I would like nothing more than for her to be fully competent to remain at home in control of her own affairs. But that is not where we are sadly.

OK - I can look into that: I've no issue with doing that. But she has been asked repeatedly where she wants to live - she says she wants to go home, but she isn't able to manage at home even with help, and that's what the risk assessment says too.

It took around 2 months last year. Different circumstances but same process. On top of the application fee you have to pay an annual fee

Read this - it explains more about IMCAs

https://www.scie.org.uk/mca/imca

@Soontobe60

Dp is deputy of her disabled adult child, it was straightforward, no solicitor involved

Thank you: I'll look at that.

I was hoping for support and guidance and now I just feel even more guilty and awful than I did when I started the thread.

From the IMCA link

IMCAs are primarily intended to be a safeguard for people who do not have family or friends who can represent them. The MCA identifies this as having no -one other than paid staff with whom "it would be appropriate to consult". The Code of Practice 10.74 - 10.78 provides more information about how this decision can be made. For example, if someone has limited family contact or if family live some distance away an IMCA can be instructed.

So it seems this is not necessarily appropriate as you can represent your DM.

Is the nub of your problem that what she wants would not be safe for her?

As an aside, it is never too early to get POA set up for oneself - although it does feel weird doing so.