Deceased mums partner

[Hoppinggreen]

My Mum died unexpectedly a few months ago and left a will passing everything onto me and my brother. Her partner of 20 years is allowed to remain in the house until he dies or no longer wants to live there, he is 82.
I have no real relationship or affection for him and he has been quite unpleasant at times but we included him in our family due to my Mum and he was generally inoffensive most of the time, although he didn’t really add much to the holidays, events etc we included him in. He has a daughter quite a distance away who has visited twice a year and phoned once a week but that’s all, this was usually driven by my Mum.
Both of them had health issues and we had been talking to them about moving into more supported accommodation, my Mum actually said that while she would rather die than go into a home He would be quite happy. Mum had carers 4 times a day but it was starting to not be enough as her Partner had previously been able to help but was now unable or unwilling to. The carers were helping him a bit but they shouldn’t have been and they did phone me to say it couldn’t continue.
Now her partner is alone in the house, his daughter has arranged carers but expects me and my brother to call in once a week, which I don’t want to do. I have had emails from carers and neighbours expressing concern about him and I have passed these onto his daughter and/or encouraged them to speak to her direct. She says he’s fine and bats away any concerns. I am not sure but while she is wealthy I don’t think her father has much money
I am not sure what if anything I should be doing, I am concerned about him (he has health issues including dementia) but the more support I give the easier it is for his daughter to say he’s fine, plus I don’t want to go to the house where my Mum died really. I don’t want anything to happen to him but it seems he’s not really coping. My brother has expressed concerns about the house as well as he wouldn’t be able to arrange a plumber for example or anything like that and under the terms of the will he has to properly maintain the house (to be fair my brother probably does want the money from the house too). My brother thinks we have to let him fail so his daughter faces reality. I am not judging his daughter at all for her lack of relationship with him, I am sure she has her reasons but he’s not my responsibility either.
I have his POA should it be necessary but I don’t want to use it - plus he generally IS competent .
I would be straight there in an emergency or if he needed specific help with something but I am happy never to see him again to be honest.
Sorry so long

[SaulHudsonDavidJones]

Ultimately it comes back to the will, either he lives there until he dies or he goes into care - with his agreement. Any more than that is his daughter's responsibility and you need to make that clear to her. Give her actual examples of how he is not coping. If the house isn't being cared for then you need to decide whether to use your POA.

[PJRules]

This is an impossible situation, my friend could have written this post except she's expected to see him much more often.

I do not know what you can do, from what you've said I'm not sure the situation will 'fail' to an extent that Ss will step in.

However, he really is not your responsibility. Tell his daughter that you're taking on some new responsibities and will be absolutely unable to drop in on him, even in an emergency (that's what emergency services are for). Tell carers and neighbours not to contact you, make sure they have her details and emergency social services contact number.

[PJRules]

And hand over POA, it should not be on your shoulders.

[Timeforachangeisitnot]

Can you/ do you wish to cancel the POA or have it transferred to his own daughter?
It rather muddies the waters, that you understandably wish his own daughter to take responsibility, but presumably at some point agreed to hold the POA ?

If you do not wish to have that responsibility, I think it’s fine to tell daughter, social services, whomever that you are not doing it, and have the POA cancelled.

[Hoppinggreen]

@Timeforachangeisitnot

Can you/ do you wish to cancel the POA or have it transferred to his own daughter?
It rather muddies the waters, that you understandably wish his own daughter to take responsibility, but presumably at some point agreed to hold the POA ?

If you do not wish to have that responsibility, I think it’s fine to tell daughter, social services, whomever that you are not doing it, and have the POA cancelled.

My Mum had his POA and on her death I am back up. My Mum was a little younger than her partner and (we thought) in better health so while we should have considered it I never actually thought I would get it.

[Hoppinggreen]

@PJRules

And hand over POA, it should not be on your shoulders.

Unfortunately I am not sure he would be judged to have capacity now for a POA to be set up

[Tracker1234]

Itss really tricky isnt it? Good on your Mum stating that he stays there until he passes. Some wills leave it very woolly or there isnt a will.

However as a society (tin hat at the ready) we are patting ourselves on the back due to people living so much longer and there is a billion £ industry regarding care for people who cannot take care of themselves. People are living much much longer but what is the quality of life?

Been there I am afraid. That industry charges £££ because they can. The alternative is that you do it.

I think you need to be really clear. The emergency number and contact details are his daughters. She needs to feel the pain of this and make arrangements. You are not the arrangement!

[SheilaFentiman]

Agree re his DD doing the care visits etc

You need to tell the OPG about your mum's death.

https://www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney/changes-you-need-to-report

[Eggseggseverywhere]

Can you ring the local council as he is a vulnerable adult?

[Hoppinggreen]

@SheilaFentiman

Agree re his DD doing the care visits etc

You need to tell the OPG about your mum's death.

https://www.gov.uk/power-of-attorney/changes-you-need-to-report

Thank you, I didn’t realise this

[Hoppinggreen]

@Tracker1234

Itss really tricky isnt it? Good on your Mum stating that he stays there until he passes. Some wills leave it very woolly or there isnt a will.

However as a society (tin hat at the ready) we are patting ourselves on the back due to people living so much longer and there is a billion £ industry regarding care for people who cannot take care of themselves. People are living much much longer but what is the quality of life?

Been there I am afraid. That industry charges £££ because they can. The alternative is that you do it.

I think you need to be really clear. The emergency number and contact details are his daughters. She needs to feel the pain of this and make arrangements. You are not the arrangement!

If she hadn’t left the will like that he couldn’t live there so his daughter would have had to make arrangements so in fact apart from for her it’s NOT a good thing in this case

[SheilaFentiman]

I think his DD is pretty cheeky to expect you and DBro to call in once a week!

From the POV of maintaining the house for your own benefit in future, maybe a visit once every few weeks to see if e.g. a plumber is needed?

Do you have health & welfare POA and financial POA?

[Tealsofa]

@Eggseggseverywhere

Can you ring the local council as he is a vulnerable adult?

If they're anything like the council where my DM lives. Good luck!

[Hoppinggreen]

@SheilaFentiman

I think his DD is pretty cheeky to expect you and DBro to call in once a week!

From the POV of maintaining the house for your own benefit in future, maybe a visit once every few weeks to see if e.g. a plumber is needed?

Do you have health & welfare POA and financial POA?

yes I have both.
I will be popping in to check on the house and I am gradually moving my Mums things out but if anything needs doing to the house I will just let his daughter know.
My brother has apparently spoken to a solicitor who checked the will and said if he doesn’t properly maintain the house we may have grounds to remove him - but I would rather not go down that route.

[Paperbagsaremine]

Well, first thing, make sure the house is insured. Yes, he probably should be doing this himself, as part of the will's conditions... but it's in your interest to have it covered.
Covea Insurance / UKINSURANCENET provided cover for us with the trustees of the will trust (i.e. me) noted as having an interest in the property as well as having my late Mum's partner as the beneficiary.

I get on well with my late Mum's partner (and believe me, I am VERY grateful for this) and have health and finance LPAs for him, but even so, when she died I got a solicitor to talk me through the situation (will AND LPAs) and there were a couple of things I hadn't appreciated. You should probably see a solicitor too if you can afford it (was hundreds of pounds but not thousands).

Capacity is situation specific, so someone can be judged to have capacity to decide some things but not others. So he could still have capacity to change attorney away from you. But even though you have no particular affection for him, is that in your interest? At the moment if he loses capacity you can pay for house repairs from his accounts and arrange for carers and cleaners....

[ItsRainingPens]

Step right back.
Get the POA removed
Tell his daughter she has to step up
Threaten to remove him if he doesn't maintain the house - and make it clear it is her responsibility to make sure it's done

[SheilaFentiman]

@ItsRainingPens

Step right back.
Get the POA removed
Tell his daughter she has to step up
Threaten to remove him if he doesn't maintain the house - and make it clear it is her responsibility to make sure it's done

OP can't get the POA removed, I don't think. The DP would need to revoke it and write a new one. By agreeing to act as an attorney (or replacement attorney), OP made a commitment to do this, even if the expectation was it wouldn't get activated.

[SheilaFentiman]

I would also agree that he may have capacity to revoke and re-register a POA with his DD, even if he has dementia - it depends on the severity.

[Hoppinggreen]

@SheilaFentiman

I would also agree that he may have capacity to revoke and re-register a POA with his DD, even if he has dementia - it depends on the severity.

He doesn’t want to do this, there are reasons he didn’t pick her in the first place.
She didn’t actually know until she visited after my Mum died and she found the paperwork- she was not happy
However, she might persuade him.
I have no intention of invoking it as things stand but if I feel he’s in danger due to his illness then I may have to, at that point I would probably try to move him somewhere more suitable to live

[SheilaFentiman]

"He doesn’t want to do this, there are reasons he didn’t pick her in the first place."

Ah, fair enough - though it makes your situation more tricky :-(

[Oldnproud]

Don't the POAs mean that you can take any measures that are necessary / in his best interests, from managing his payments (from his accounts/income) to pay for anything essential, from insurance / maintenance of the house, to moving him into care?

I could be wrong, but I don't think it puts you under any extra obligation to visit him more often just because his daughter can't or won't.

Personally, I think you and your late mother's estate might be better managed and protected if you keep the PIAs, rather than revoking them.

[AnonymousA1]

Meanwhile in the real world children are starving 🙄

[Hoppinggreen]

@AnonymousA1

Meanwhile in the real world children are starving 🙄

Thank you, very helpful
And also irrelevant

[Oldnproud]

@AnonymousA1

Meanwhile in the real world children are starving 🙄

And? There are old people starving too. Still a stupid comment, but at least with slightly more relevance to the thread than yours!

[Hoppinggreen]

@Oldnproud

Don't the POAs mean that you can take any measures that are necessary / in his best interests, from managing his payments (from his accounts/income) to pay for anything essential, from insurance / maintenance of the house, to moving him into care?

I could be wrong, but I don't think it puts you under any extra obligation to visit him more often just because his daughter can't or won't.

Personally, I think you and your late mother's estate might be better managed and protected if you keep the PIAs, rather than revoking them.

Yes that’s right IF I invoke them.
So I suppose in one way it’s better that I DO have them rather than his daughter who I believe DOES care about him but hasn’t had to worry about anything beyond a phone call once a week and a twice a year visit. My Mum handled all the finances and general life admin so he’s a bit clueless, he also doesn’t hear too well so phone calls can be hard for him. He was fully functional because my Mum told him what to do and when to do it