Deceased mums partner

[Hoppinggreen]

My Mum died unexpectedly a few months ago and left a will passing everything onto me and my brother. Her partner of 20 years is allowed to remain in the house until he dies or no longer wants to live there, he is 82.
I have no real relationship or affection for him and he has been quite unpleasant at times but we included him in our family due to my Mum and he was generally inoffensive most of the time, although he didn’t really add much to the holidays, events etc we included him in. He has a daughter quite a distance away who has visited twice a year and phoned once a week but that’s all, this was usually driven by my Mum.
Both of them had health issues and we had been talking to them about moving into more supported accommodation, my Mum actually said that while she would rather die than go into a home He would be quite happy. Mum had carers 4 times a day but it was starting to not be enough as her Partner had previously been able to help but was now unable or unwilling to. The carers were helping him a bit but they shouldn’t have been and they did phone me to say it couldn’t continue.
Now her partner is alone in the house, his daughter has arranged carers but expects me and my brother to call in once a week, which I don’t want to do. I have had emails from carers and neighbours expressing concern about him and I have passed these onto his daughter and/or encouraged them to speak to her direct. She says he’s fine and bats away any concerns. I am not sure but while she is wealthy I don’t think her father has much money
I am not sure what if anything I should be doing, I am concerned about him (he has health issues including dementia) but the more support I give the easier it is for his daughter to say he’s fine, plus I don’t want to go to the house where my Mum died really. I don’t want anything to happen to him but it seems he’s not really coping. My brother has expressed concerns about the house as well as he wouldn’t be able to arrange a plumber for example or anything like that and under the terms of the will he has to properly maintain the house (to be fair my brother probably does want the money from the house too). My brother thinks we have to let him fail so his daughter faces reality. I am not judging his daughter at all for her lack of relationship with him, I am sure she has her reasons but he’s not my responsibility either.
I have his POA should it be necessary but I don’t want to use it - plus he generally IS competent .
I would be straight there in an emergency or if he needed specific help with something but I am happy never to see him again to be honest.
Sorry so long

[EllandRd]

Sounds like you want him out so you can sell it.

[AnonymousA1]

Oh my god I posted on the wrong thread I was replying to a woman who said she was declining an invite to a party because of a thumbs up 🤦‍♀️

[Hoppinggreen]

@EllandRd

Sounds like you want him out so you can sell it.

I can’t say that’s not partly true if I am honest. Not for the money, I always thought my Mum would need expensive care and we would get nothing, but I don’t want to own the house or deal with either my Mums partner, his family or anything else really. At the moment it’s just all another source of stress for me

[mdinbc]

A very similar situation happened in my family. Mum died, leaving a life interest in her house for her husband. She owned the house outright before they married. He had adult children not very involved in his life, and living in another city.

After mum died, it became more clear to us how dependant her DH was on her; his dementia became more obvious. He would go for long walks leaving the front door open, he let the kettle boil on the stove until it melted, etc. Thankfully my sister lived in the same town, and had a relationship with mum's DH. Sis had POA, and I have to say his family was also a bit blind to the fact at how incapacitated he really was. She arranged for care and housekeeping to come in (on his wallet), but the house was starting to suffer after six months of him being on his own.

My sister eventually took him around to various care homes and found him one part way between original house and his family. She took care of his finances and visited him every week for the next 7 years of his life. I know that the rest of my family did not have as close a relationship with him, and would have had to have his family intervene on his behalf.

Good luck to you, you will have to force his daughter to make some decisions. You may want to stay as POA just so you know the household bills are being paid. As a reverse, if you let him fail to pay utilities then you have proof that he is not capable of living there, and can further prove to his daughter that he cannot stay in the house.

[SleepingStandingUp]

@AnonymousA1

Meanwhile in the real world children are starving 🙄

I assume you put that on every thread apart from ones of actual mothers of children starving? Every parking thread, every argument with DH, every annoying MIL?

[Hoppinggreen]

@SleepingStandingUp

I assume you put that on every thread apart from ones of actual mothers of children starving? Every parking thread, every argument with DH, every annoying MIL?

She has said she accidentally posted on the wrong thread

[Hoppinggreen]

@mdinbc
Thats my dilemma really.
I may have to let things deteriorate, both him and the house, before his family stop with the airy “he’s fine”
His daughter actually messaged me last week to say she’s going on holiday and it’s too expensive to make calls from where she’s going so I will need to keep a closer eye on him, Didn’t ask, told.
I don’t want to say “look, I don’t really like your Dad, never really have and I feel no responsibility or affection for him at all”. I don’t bear him any ill will and I know my Mums life was better with him in it (until the last few years) but he’s just some bloke who lived with my Mum, that’s all and now she’s gone I should be feeling like I have less responsibility not more.

[SleepingStandingUp]

@Hoppinggreen

She has said she accidentally posted on the wrong thread

Didn't see your update @AnonymousA1 , sorry. Yes, other poster is being ridiculous, I saw that thread.

[AnonymousA1]

@SleepingStandingUp no worries I have literally no idea what I did there x

[ConkerBonkers]

Goodness! I think you should follow your brother's lead, and also get the poa revoked.

[Hoppinggreen]

@ConkerBonkers

Goodness! I think you should follow your brother's lead, and also get the poa revoked.

The POA actually might come in handy, but it’s the nuclear option.

[Clymene]

What a really horrible and difficult situation. I would contact Age UK for advice but effectively what you think overrules his daughter. If you, his carers and neighbours don't think he can live alone, he needs to move to a residential home. If he has no assets, then that will be paid for by social services.

You do not need to feel guilty. You have to protect your asset.

[TheSparkling]

I think keeping the POAs is absolutely essential for you. It means you have control of the situation. Clearly his daughter isn't going to get involved any more than she is but it's in your interests to be able to maintain the house.

It's a tough situation because there is little you can do until something happens which means social services have to step in.
What you don't have to do is anything his daughter asks you to and I think making this clear to her (for example when she phoned to tell you to step up while she is away) and then sticking to it is essential.

[SheilaFentiman]

@Hoppinggreen can you say to his DD “he’s not my relative, I will call him once a fortnight and drop by every couple of months” (or whatever you are ok with) “beyond that it’s up to you and your relatives”

[hattie43]

Out of interest if OP knows he is vulnerable, knows his daughter is not interested and lives a distance away , if she should step away and leave them to it could she be charged with neglect if he should befall an accident or die in bed and not discovered ? I'm interested because I also have an elderly frail step father who I'm not close to and his family are estranged from him and would find myself in this situation should my mum pass first .

[LadyGardenersQuestionTime]

God, what a mess.

What level of help does he actually need? And can any/all of it be delivered by carers rather than you? Does he have a diagnosis of dementia?

[Hoppinggreen]

I am in no way responsible for him unless I invoke the POA so no, I couldn’t be charged with neglect. That’s not a concern at all

[JennyMule]

OP if your late mother's husband has care needs - sounds like he does because your DM's carers helped him as well as her - the starting point is to request a Care Act assessment from adult social care. As LPA you have the standing to do so (even though you would only be making decisions as LPA(HW) that the donor lacks the mental capacity to make himself, and it's not clear if he lacks capacity- the presumption unless there's evidence otherwise is that a person has capacity.) Most LAs have an online portal (bit like an assessment via survey monkey!) which you fill in explaining how he's unable to do certain things, struggles to do others, has no informal help (dtr lives away, you & DB can't provide practical help beyond decision making as required as Attorneys) and (eventually) DM's husband will be told what help he'd be entitled to. Financial assessment follows, ie where the LA works out how much care they'll fund and what he must contribute. If he's clueless about finances you can complete the financial declaration for him. If he declined care he needs to remain safely at home, or lacks the Income to maintain the property those would be grounds for you to discuss/consider whether it is possible for him to remain. However there is an obvious conflict of interest inherent in your and DB position which you may struggle to manage and taking legal advice would probably be a good idea if you got to that point (e.g.to allay concerns from his dtr which could include referring your actions to the OPG.)

[Hoppinggreen]

@LadyGardenersQuestionTime

God, what a mess.

What level of help does he actually need? And can any/all of it be delivered by carers rather than you? Does he have a diagnosis of dementia?

He is on medication for Alzheimers
He has council carers who call for 30 minutes twice a day (although I have been told it’s around 10 minutes and they barely speak to him). My Mum arranged private carers to come to help him once a week to take him for a walk or similar and they still come. They used to be my Mums carers and are lovely, they are the ones who have expressed concern but have been told there’s no issue by the daughter .
He is probably ok in the house but if he went out alone it would be risky, he is wobbly and has ended up unsure of where he was. He also invited a homeless man to come round to get some money - my Mum was home alone when the man came round but luckily left when she told him to (he walked straight in to the house). There are other things too, he barely recognised anyone at my Mums funeral and did something awful I don’t want to talk about.
If told to do things he can mostly do them but if not he will mostly just sleep, I don’t think he gets up most days

[Hoppinggreen]

@JennyMule

OP if your late mother's husband has care needs - sounds like he does because your DM's carers helped him as well as her - the starting point is to request a Care Act assessment from adult social care. As LPA you have the standing to do so (even though you would only be making decisions as LPA(HW) that the donor lacks the mental capacity to make himself, and it's not clear if he lacks capacity- the presumption unless there's evidence otherwise is that a person has capacity.) Most LAs have an online portal (bit like an assessment via survey monkey!) which you fill in explaining how he's unable to do certain things, struggles to do others, has no informal help (dtr lives away, you & DB can't provide practical help beyond decision making as required as Attorneys) and (eventually) DM's husband will be told what help he'd be entitled to. Financial assessment follows, ie where the LA works out how much care they'll fund and what he must contribute. If he's clueless about finances you can complete the financial declaration for him. If he declined care he needs to remain safely at home, or lacks the Income to maintain the property those would be grounds for you to discuss/consider whether it is possible for him to remain. However there is an obvious conflict of interest inherent in your and DB position which you may struggle to manage and taking legal advice would probably be a good idea if you got to that point (e.g.to allay concerns from his dtr which could include referring your actions to the OPG.)

His daughter has done this I believe
And they were not married

[MereDintofPandiculation]

@SleepingStandingUp

I assume you put that on every thread apart from ones of actual mothers of children starving? Every parking thread, every argument with DH, every annoying MIL?

She’s already explained she accidentally posted to the wrong thread

[TennisWithDeborah]

I understand the daughter’s position because I have one living parent whom I dislike and have as little to do with as possible. I understand why she is trying to bat responsibility over to you. But that doesn’t mean that it’s ok and that you have to accept it.

As he gets frailer and time passes, it will all get more difficult and you might find yourself enmeshed and unable to find a way out of it.

I think you need to be gently candid with her asap and explain that you and/or your brother will visit him socially every couple of weeks out of respect for the fact that he was your mum’s OH and made her happy, and that you will be keeping track of the condition of the property as per the terms of the Will, but that you will not be liaising with carers or making arrangements for him.

If she chooses to keep her distance (which is her prerogative) then eventually he will have to move into residential care.

[idontlikementhols]

Poor man. Elderly, vulnerable, ill, and no one can be bothered with him.

[McSlowburn]

@Tracker1234

Itss really tricky isnt it? Good on your Mum stating that he stays there until he passes. Some wills leave it very woolly or there isnt a will.

However as a society (tin hat at the ready) we are patting ourselves on the back due to people living so much longer and there is a billion £ industry regarding care for people who cannot take care of themselves. People are living much much longer but what is the quality of life?

Been there I am afraid. That industry charges £££ because they can. The alternative is that you do it.

I think you need to be really clear. The emergency number and contact details are his daughters. She needs to feel the pain of this and make arrangements. You are not the arrangement!

This! It's a complete quagmire but just take a deep breath and take your time to work through what you need to do. Good luck.

Am working through similar stress with probate/planning permission before properties can be sold, whilst grieving for the loss of two parents.

I had a really helpful chat with a close friend today who advised me to readjust and just expect complications and be ready. It did really help me stop catastrophising and just start making practical steps forward. Its little steps at this point.

[Tracker1234]

Probate is a complete disgrace and I am not sure why it’s not getting more attention. Weeks and weeks of delay. Horrendous forms to fill in and no one seems to care!