At my wits end. Difficult elderly mother in denial flaring up any time something is called out

[Frazzledmummy123]

I have posted a few times on here before but things are really gathering pace now and I am really starting to get to the end of my rope.

Brief recap, parents, both in 80s, living in own home, but extremely inaccessible, nowhere near amenities. DM is 'the boss' and my dad's carer, DF has failing mobility but won't use walking aids, and DF has been having regular confusions and red flags for start of potential dementia. Nothing is being faced up to.

In recent weeks, any time I have mentioned something about my dad's confusions, DM has flared up and started getting massively defensive and argumentative. DM is also narcissistic and as a result, I am low contact with her. A silent treatment usually follows, so dealing with her denial about my dad is doubly challenging. She moans constantly and plays the martyr, but explodes if anything is said.

This morning again, she flared up all because she was moaning about having visitors over while getting work done (her own choice) and dreading it. I suggested she rearrange date and she went off on one shouting she needs 'adult company', voice shaking, everything (obv something going in with my dad). Then I get told I overreacted and took her the wrong way, etc, she wants my aunt to visit, etc. It was a huge overreaction, and also told me all I need to know about how things are behind closed doors.

What a wonderful response! Someone clearly at the end of her tether comes on to seek advice and they get hit with this.

You have my sympathies OP. It’s so shit having to deal with this when your relationship isn’t the mother/daughter utopia that some seem to believe exists for everyone.

Mostly very wise answers above. She likely can see her own and your father's limitations but is afraid of loss of independence/control or possibly in denial.

I wrote to mum's GP outlining my concerns and they got social services involved. It didn't help much initially as mum was adept at bullshitting officialdom for about 45 minutes despite having moderate dementia. But a couple of crises happened and eventually others could see what I had been saying, they finally decided she didn't have capacity and she was forced to accept more help and ended up in a home. My mum was abusive and is almost certainly a narcissist as well so I do understand. Protect yourself, withdraw completely if you need to and tell social services etc that you cannot continue to support them.

Is your mum interfering at all with care of your dad? What I mean is, does he need care/medical help and she's blocking it? Because if so that's a major safeguarding concern and if that's reported to social services or GP they should take it seriously.

I don't think social services will help unless your parents ask for it themselves??? You have my utmost sympathy. Its a very difficult situation to be in. I would talk to their gp and see what they advise. Yes your mum is probably scared but..... lashing out verbally at you is so nasty. Good luck 🍀❤️🙏

I am new to this network but have similar experience with my mum and my disabled stepfather.
My mother has always been a very hostile and angry person even when i was a kid, I read about narcissistic personality and yeah maybe that is the case or she has just been depressed and not dealt with it, i have tried all sorts of communication with her trying to explain why she shouldn't say certain things as things can be taken literally nowadays
(we had social services involved as she said she was going to 'clump my stepfather around the earhole, to the ambulance crew, next time he fell over)
My point of my comment is, i actually found that instead of telling my mum about what she is doing wrong, Instead I pretended to agree with her, but tried to explain the flip side of the situation. I found if i agreed and she felt i wasn't on the opposing side she opened up a bit more.

If you possibly can, OP, please get both Powers of Attorney set up asap. I dare say your mother will kick off, so I’d tell her in very plain English that if anything happened where she was unable to make her wishes known (e.g. a stroke) and there was no P of A, then social services/the Court of Protection would take over - decisions would officially be out of your hands.

Who would she prefer - SS/Court of Protection, or you, and maybe another member of the family - jointly and severally?

I went through phases of my parents being very difficult about accepting help with my DF's failing health, and I suspect we'll have another round of this in the near future with my DM beginning to lose mobility.

However - and I realise this isn't the case for everyone, at all - in my family's I found that although they resisted getting home carers and then a care home and dragged everything out, once they were actually in place my DM greatly enjoyed having staff she could show off to.

It's easier said than done but if you can, get them to get adaptations done in the house if they need it. One of the most frustrating episodes we had was when my DM made an enormous deal out of not wanting to lose some of her garden space to a ramp for DF and ignored any suggestion of an alternative layout or that it needed to be sorted out urgently. The inevitable bad fall (it turned out there had been minor ones) led to a chain reaction of exploding shitbombs; not worth a flower bed over.

I am in Scotland so things may be different. When MIL was at her most difficult and SIL was in denial, I was able to complete and online referral for an OT visit on MILs behalf, and I called SS to report her as vulnerable.

In our case, MIL was admitted to hospital before those assessments, so the hospital team took over. MIL

GP service refused to act on DH or SIL requests, maintaining that MIL herself needed to ask for help. SS disagreed with that and were happy to take the referrals.

I do agree with pp, your DM may not admit she is struggling, but In our case the hospital assessment team asked DH for his observations.

My mum is a narcissist @DevantMaJardin , it's been a problem of verbal and sometimes physical abuse all my life, as well as other family members.

It's so hard as I still care regardless, I get it. It is so hard

I've has to let the crisis come many a time recently and set boundaries. Its so challenging. You'll get there. Reach out if need help x

Definitely gets the POA. I got health and financial two separate POAs. I understand exactly what you are going through.
I would call the GP. I wish I had. It’s too late now.

It is truly stressful, please be kind to OP regarding narcissicim, generally people are not diagnosed with it, the conclusion comes from a child/partner/someone close having a lifetime of dealing with it and then when at the end of their tether coming across the term and researching it. You seem to arrive at this stage when you are at your wits end from trying to help that person and receiving nothing but grief back with the result that t cause more stress than is bearable – be kind to OP. My mothers behaviour is also difficult - everyone else is to blame apart from her, narcissists know no boundaries and probably unconsciously push you into areas that could cause you legal problems, mine is doing it - regarding LPA - she has left it too late and cannot cope with something as simple as signing an agreement form for the solicitors - i have had to back away because any further involvement could be seen as coercion - this is this the behaviour of a narcissist, everyone can go hang themselves and they are always right until it goes wrong, my hugs to you OP x

So sorry OP; it is such a trying stage for the person caring, let alone those struggling. I have recently watched my Mum reach breaking point at home - barely eating, washing or getting dressed and struggling with the stairs terribly whilst refusing a stair lift. I was the only carer but couldn't make any suggestions without being called bossy and I quickly realised I may as well save my breath. Any suggestions I made seemed only to make her more entrenched to keep on going it alone.

I communicated regularly with her GP and social services and whilst I often felt I was shouting into a void, her wonderful GP eventually managed to persuade her she wasn't safe at home (Mum was shocked to hear this, even though I had been saying it for months!). She is now in a care home for respite and I hope it becomes permanent. I can't tell you the relief. The resentment and worry has lifted and we have our old positive relationship back.

I really do feel your pain. Try and step back as much as you can. Avoid saying anything to wind up your mum and vent elsewhere . Give yourself time out for yourself and get the professionals involved. Good luck 💐

@DevantMaJardin did you actually read @Frazzledmummy123 post? There are many threads on Mumsnet Elderly Parents with similar stories. Those of us who have grown up having to live with parents who always know better than everyone else, but the reality is they don’t, they bury their heads in the sand about everything but when things go wrong they expect us, usually middle aged daughters, to sort everything out. So maybe have some empathy for those of us who may well make armchair diagnoses of narcissistic personalities but we have generally arrived there after much soul searching and often therapy because we thought we were the problem. Narcissists rarely get help as they do not see themselves as the problem. I suspect @Frazzledmummy123 has lived a life of trying to ‘please’ her DM, ‘the boss’. Narcissistic mothers see us daughters as their opportunity to make our lives miserable because they simply can.

You could follow your own advice about empathy?

The op is low contact and in a difficult position. The relationship issues are longstanding.

Oh god mine was like that, I had the temerity to tear up when the doctor talked to us about a dnr for my dad. She was absolutely furious and said to this bewildered doctor in a disgusted voice- she doesn't understand. Doctor came round to to me and put her arm round me - probably more sympathy for my batshit mother than the news about my dad! To be fair, my mum had spent my lifetime telling me how shit he was.

I really hope you see the irony of your post.

I agree, it must be terrifying for her.

Some people are in for a real shock when they get old themselves and reality hits.

And some people would be in real shock if they actually experience certain behaviour from their close family that they are lucky enough to not have had to.

So easy to judge! Being terrified doesnt give anyone an excuse to behave badly.

So true, “we have generally arrived there after much soul searching and often therapy because we thought we were the problem. Narcissists rarely get help as they do not see themselves as the problem”.

It was a friend casually mentioning her having some kind of personality disorder that finally set me free. It didn’t change much practically, I’d already worked out my technique for managing it and staying sane, but it let me feel less culpable. Someone else saying ‘it’s her, not you.’

I'm sorry you're copping so much grief on here. It's perfectly possible for people to be difficult, hurtful and nasty people AND for them to ALSO be struggling to come to terms with age related decline and facing their partner's and their own mortality.

I would call or write to the GP, and give social services a call too. Both can be anonymous. SS are unlikely to act but at least a concern about their health needs will be on record, which should hopefully mean that future SS involvement may be actioned quicker due to a building up of a case history.

So a year and a half later, how are things now, @Frazzledmummy123 ?

Are you feeling any better?

Oh, good spot!

It's so very difficult. We had this with my in-laws. To quote my sis in law 'it's like watching a car crash about to happen'.

Sorry about this situation @Frazzledmummy123 and others my family dynamics are similar. My dad was a quiet man and he went even quieter afraid to give any clues away that he may have dementia when he couldn’t remember some words. Fortunately for us my dad had a number of health issues and medical professionals suspected dementia (and my DM didn’t argue with them).

I think it was GP first then someone from the memory team (if I remember correctly) so first step is to contact your parents GP and lay everything out on the table your suspicions, her not coping, anger etc.

Later on my DM would make similar comments about my having no idea what goes on behind clothes doors as I only visited X times a week (nothing was ever enough) but she would swing between coping fine wanting no help or interference whatsoever to lashing out saying you have no idea and you try having a go then when I offered to give her a day off or a few hours off etc (it was thrown in my face). She was also reluctant to accept any help when offered from any quarters. But in the end DF was in and out of hospital and his needs worsened so much that she couldn’t manage his care needs alone so had to accept carers in.

Take care OP it will take its toll on you as however much you try your efforts may not be appreciated and could well be misunderstood. At one stage I was trying to complete the forms for Attendance Allowance for them. I had fully explained why and what it was etc. But DM was suspicious so she threw out all of my DF’s medical letters so we had no evidence (to be as awkward as possible so it took longer to get). She even wound other family members up about me saying that she didn’t know what I was up to but I was trying to steal money from them even though she had no dementia and had given her bank details so knew any monies would be paid directly to her. She recently made suspicious nasty comments about one of my cousins saying she hoped she wasn’t stealing her parents money (as they go abroad twice a year not to anywhere flashy and they have a static caravan which they have had for over 20 years) so if she isn’t how can they afford it.

Now DF is no longer with us she won’t help herself its almost 6 years ago she still plays the victim and I think a lot of it is guilt. She loved him in her own way often played the martyr but she didn’t always treat him or speak about him in the best way

Take care OP

Couldn't agree more with Frazzled Mummy – we get how frightening it must be, I lost my father to Alzheimer's last year (me and hundreds of others who would have lost a parent to the condition) – yet despite having untreated PTSD from his war time experiences as a child, he faced his condition so bravely – it can be done. Possibly the problem with someone with narcissistic tendencies is that they are control freaks, and for them it must be even more frightening to relinquish control but it does not give them the excuse to hurt and gaslight those around them so badly – it causes so much grief, as is evident from these posts – be strong and to my mind you all sound like flipping amazing people.

Paradoxically, having empathy with the elderly parent can make behaviour easier to cope with. Viewing nastiness as a manifestation of the worries of old age is easier to cope with than viewing it as a deliberate desire to be unpleasant to you.