Frail Father in law- what do we do?

[FurCoatNoNickers]

Hello, this is my first post on this board and I need help navigating a way forward for my father in law.

For context, FIL is in his mid eighties and lives alone, in his own home ( he owns it). We live about 40 mins away from him and bro in law ( DH's brother) lives well over an hour way and doesn't drive. DH is the child, FIL relies upon. We have two kids, one with autism. Very busy and stressful life tbh.

He keeps having falls, this started last summer and it's now happening quite regularly. They happen in the home and out in public, ambulance was called on one occasion as he badly hurt himself. He is struggling to maintain his home, cleaning and maintenance of it. He wears a necklace with a panic button on it but I feel the situation is becoming more serious as he gets frailer. My fear is he will fall down the stairs one night and won't be able to call for help. He is still driving but I think he needs to stop now. He is lovely but incredibly stubborn / belligerent.

What on earth do we do? What are our options? DH has power of attorney, both financial and health.

Perhaps look for "Extra Care" accommodation - own flat / bungalow with staff on site for emergencies, communal facilities & usually a hot meal.
Sadly if your savings / investments are above a certain level (eg from selling a property) you wouldn't be entitled to Social Housing.

By, say, asking about it on an Internet forum focussed on elderly parents?

OP the only way to find out whether your FIL is entitled to rent one of the bungalows is to ask the correct county council department. Hopefully, he will be.

A lot of councils since Covid/Brexit/Care Crisis have now collated lists of self employed private carers that meet standards such as having a DBS, insurance and up to date training. You could have a good look on your local council website or here2help or www.smallgoodstuff.co.uk websites.

He lets you do his cleaning? Really?
Is he short of money?

Need to distinguish between the two LPAs. Finance operates as you say, Health and Welfare can be used only when donor has lost capacity.

That’s exactly what OP is trying to do.

He may be trying to preserve his self esteem.

or scared to spend any of the money he has saved for when he’s “really” old.

Or he may just be applying the social norms of when he was brought up.

Why do people have to have a bloody go? OP asked an innocent question.

I don't know what it's like in OP's area, but here a bungalow of any size is considerably more expensive than an ordinary semi, so an elderly person would have zero chance of buying one unless they were seriously downsizing. But tough shit if they bought a modest property they could afford years ago. Better put in a stair lift and hope they continue to remember how to operate it.

Not much self esteem letting your DIL bleach your toilet.
What were his plans for coping as he aged?

My GF owned his own house but after being assessed was allocated a flat in a LA sheltered complex, so it can be done.

Some friends of my ILs were allocated a LA bungalow in a specialist complex some years ago after they sold their own home (which was ironically a fair-sized bungalow, but one they could no longer access due to a steep slope and steps leading up to the front door). I think however that the system was changed shortly afterwards, as MIL complained that they'd be unable to do the same thing if they ever needed to.

Thank you so much to the helpful people that have replied! Really appreciate it.

Hey troll, please get some help to escape from this lonely place of bitterness you seem to inhabit. I really hope someone cares about you enough when you are frail and vulnerable and will help you out with your household chores. Remember, you get back what you give out.

It's a been an eye opener, some of the replies! I think some people have a huge sense of entitlement and if they think someone is getting something that they deem should only be for 'them', ( because I bet the horrible comments are coming from those who consider themselves 'rightfully entitled' to social housing) they get nasty and chippy about it, as it 'takes resources' away from them.

No. I'm not that entitled. I'll start to use what I've scrimped and saved for all my life and get a cleaner. Leaving my busy adult family with jobs and families of their own free of the burden. Who wouldn't?
Attendance allowance isn't even means tested!

Why shouldn't he? Social housing is for everyone. Peoples needs change over time. Just to make you aware, people who live in social housing do actually pay their own rent out of their own pocket. Educate yourself.

Unless it's supported living sheltered housing or one's that have been opened up to others, he won't have a right to move to one of those HA properties as he'll have over their housing threshold in money. There are extra care schemes that have shared ownership he may be eligible for. You won't know unless you ring and talk to a community care specialist housing officer in your local borough council.

Here's a LA housing officers response to a similar question
*"Local authorities must give 'reasonable preference' to certain groups - ie people who are homless, people in unsatisfactory accommodation, people who need to move on medical or social grounds and people who need to move to a particular area and it would cause hardship if they could not move.

It is however up to the authority as to how they consider these factors. Other factors may be considered, but must not outwiegh those listed.

These rules are contained within the Code of Guidance on Allocation of Accommodation"

Also it doesn't appear that have LPAs yet as you says you'd only just filed application. Until you get confirmation you have the orders, you can't even use the LPA finances and property even with his consent.

In this situation , whilst your FIL has capacity to decide on his accomodation and finances and property, you can't do anything on his behalf and it's all about choices he's making including what you may think are unwise choices (under mental capacity act 2005, principle 2)

You can see he may be heading for a nasty fall and injury that may significantly disable him or worse, but to your FIL he has one life and he wants to continue living it with freedom and these risks, up until the very last point he can.

More self esteem in “managing with a little help from my family” than in” having to have a cleaner because I can no longer do it myself”. Delusional, but we’re not looking at it from the inside.

Apologies I meant ' May not' not 'won't ' as funds may be taken into account. There are privately managed sheltered housing schemes but they tend to come with more expensive buy outs and charges on top of the cost of the flats.

The best approach would be to ring housing dept yourself to enquire what options and rules might be that they apply in your local area. It's certainly possible to move nearer to your family who are proving care of some sort.

Some local borough councils are more flexible with certain sheltered accomodation than others.

I think if you rang your housing department they’d be able to advise you. In my area, once you’ve registered you can bid on available properties. Obviously certain criteria will need to be met, but I know that some properties do stay vacant for a while so I’d say it’s definitely worth enquiring.
I do wonder though would he be willing to move? I know from very personal experience that it can be very difficult (impossible) to persuade elderly parents to accept help or change. Although it sounds extreme, sometimes it takes a crisis to occur to actually change the situation. Obviously you want to prevent a crisis but it’s not always possible and you will wear yourself out in the process.

This is happening with DB and his FIL and MIL.

FIL is at a guess 70 and so is MIL, but FIL had a stroke years ago, has cerebral palsy and is a paraplegic.

They’ve coped for years with MIL doing all the carer work but she still works and has a bad back condition. I heard over the weekend that things have got worse recently but they both (more FIL) aren’t keen on external carers. They do have a cleaner come every week.

Their DS who lives by helps out but has his own young family and life/career.

It is so tricky…

I think it's lovely that you'd be prepared to keep an eye on him and have him move closer. My guess is that if he's a homeowner, he won't be able to get a social/rented bungalow in your area. However he could sell up and look to buy a sheltered accommodation flat/bungalow in your area. They have all the adaptations he'd need plus the bonus of having an on site warden. Added advantage is that he's also not wasting his cash on rent too.

If you look on Rightmove, you can tick a box so that it shows you over 55s/sheltered accommodation in your area.

When my DH was ill and I felt his driving days were over, I managed to get him to agree to an hour's review session with an Institute of Advanced Motorists trainer www.iamroadsmart.com/courses/mature-driver-review

The deal was that if they said he was fine, I'd stop worrying/nagging, if they found areas for improvement I would help him sort them out, or if he thought there were too many to bother with, I'd help him make other arrangements for staying independent.

I pitched it along the lines of every skill needs refreshing from time to time, especially if you've had a bit of a break or circumstances have changed.

In the end he decided not to drive any more, but this way it became his decision based on an independent report rather than someone else bullying him into it.

I have a lot of empathy for you @FurCoatNoNickers and DH

As with frequent falls in older age (when bones don't heal as fully) and a lifeline pendant alarm, FOL is expecting you'll be available to be called anytime to go check him and sit with him if he falls in his house and if an ambulance is called/ required. It can be a long wait for ambulance if a fall inside home, in many NHS areas , about 4 hrs in our area if they're busy (longer in some other metropolitan areas. )

What is good news is that FIL has only needed ambulance once from a fall so far. That tells you his falls so far are not heavy falls causing significant injury. And FIL may feel that it's worth the risk to him. Of course as a relative that is stressful and causes worry to you including that the next fall may be a serious injury one.

At this stage anything you do has to be with encouragement to FIL and gentle persuasion of the benefits of moving nearer to you or into sheltered housing if that's possible. You're right to think along the lines of exploring extra care schemes (with carers onsite for care packages and for emergencies although they won't lift him up from floor) or sheltered housing very near you so you can more easily pop over. Those tend to be rented HA flats in a scheme but can also sometimes be shared ownership depending on your LA provision in your area.

It's my experience that the "fiercely independent" (the phrase used that others might call 'stubborn' ) clients who want to stay in their own homes do tend to manage in their own fashion and keep going!

It's a good thing in some ways and a mixed bag that FIL thinks in his 80s he's not yet "old" and that he's living what he sees as his best life, despite increasing unsteadiness in mobility.

I have a dad who's mid 80s and he's very similar. I have LPAs in place (health and welfare and finances and property)

I'm in the arena of trying to persuade him & mum to move to a owner occupier bungalow near me from 200 miles away. He vacillates and gets cross if I say too much. (I send rightmove property links to my mum)

There is zero chance I'd be able to persuade them to move to a rented flat in a sheltered housing older person scheme and DFather still wants a garage/ workshop. It's hard enough trying to keep him out of my garage and off step ladders at mine let alone what my mum unleashes merry hell for if she catches him with a ladder- after a spectacular fall and broken bones at home.

I've accepted that my Dad wants "to go out" on his own terms. This is my field too so even if you were a social worker, physio or Occupational therapist, I can reassure you that professionals face same worries (& "feisty independence") with their own older relatives.

Very good advice from @MontyDonsBlueScarf

Local borough council may offer an older persons driving assessment for a small fee, which is voluntary and may help DFather if you think he might benefit from it and he agrees. Unless you have a specific medical condition like weakness from a specified medical condition such as dementia, a stroke with one sided weakness, epilepsy , sight impairment for eg, it isnt easy to refer to DVLA for action to remove a driving licence.

Good idea to try to persuade him to try a driving assessment. My DF has accepted his driving days are drawing soon to a close, likes using his free OP bus pass and intends for his grandson to have his car when he stops. So there's an incentive there that he isn't a bad drive now but can't continue driving forever.

Hi, as an oldie who was full time carer for my late husband I can offer suggestions that helped is. Having been a carer in the community many many years I had a little insight from both sides..
Having used a couple of care agencies that really didn't ful fill the needs required I advertised and found 2 lovely ladies that came alternate days.
As for cleaning our lovely daughter in law helped on a regular basis..we paid her a little so helped us both.

As for cleaning the toilet as one posted wrote..a pair of gloves and mask if necessary is not beyond most people capability.
As for moving from your FIL present own home I am pretty certain most councils don't allow that but maybe sheltered housing in a complex for older and disabled people in own apartments might be an option.

I so get the old gent not thinking he is old. My now late husband at 89 would never agree he was old. If I joked saying "were getting old dear" he would look my way smiling, telling me to speak for myself..he wasn't old..bless him.

I commend OP for govingvthis situation some serious thought..