To have told my dad he’s a tight arse.

[Twoweekcruise]

My parents are 80. My mum sadly has Alzheimer’s and other health issues. My dad is in good health.
They are both lucky in the sense that his two daughters (myself and younger dsis) both live within walking distance from them.
We help out as much as possible. My sister works full time and I, part time. My sister pops in and cleans for my parents once a week. I pop in most days, between dsis and I we do their washing. I organise all of mums hospital and doctors appointments, I wash and dry mums hair, cut and polish her nails, change and make their beds, take mum to a day centre once a week and generally keep a check on them as dad isn’t too good at most of these things (and says they aren’t yet ‘ready’ for carers or outside help!).
Before I carry on and for clarity, my parents are not hard up for money. Mum inherited several years ago from her parents and dad took it upon himself to invest ‘their’ money. They have many thousands (enough to buy a family home) in the bank. They do very little with their lives and their outs-goings are small.p, they spend little and of course that’s totally up to them!
Yesterday my 16 year old son and I visited nan and grandad (whilst I cut and painted my mums nails) and ds decided to stay after I left. My dsis was there, she was cleaning their house. She cleaned from 1-6pm. Ds swept their driveway and concreted an area in the back garden for grandad.
When ds returned he said my dad had given him £10 and my dsis £20 for their help.
I messaged my sister and asked if he gave her that amount each week and she said yes but she doesn’t do it for the money. I said that’s not the point. She is a professional cleaner and charges £15 per hour.
I’ve told him today that isn’t on, he should pay her more, ffs she was cleaning for 5 bloody hours for a measly £20.
AIBU to think he should step up and pay her more, seeing that it’s him not pulling his weight and cleaning his own bloody house, it’s minging.

You can't volunteer your time and then complain that you're not being paid for it, especially when that time is being given to your own parents!

I'm really shocked you think it's acceptable to charge them for this tbh. Either do it with good grace or say you're busy and arrange for paid help to come in.

The thing is care for parents creeps up, the OP and her sister probably didn’t volunteer to do what they are now doing. What was once possibly a quick weekly visit turns into a daily visit or the five hour cleaning visit. I’ve seen this happen numerous times despite the elderly parents claiming attendance allowance and often carers allowance.

@CrimbleCrumble1

The thing is care for parents creeps up, the OP and her sister probably didn’t volunteer to do what they are now doing. What was once possibly a quick weekly visit turns into a daily visit or the five hour cleaning visit. I’ve seen this happen numerous times despite the elderly parents claiming attendance allowance and often carers allowance.

yes I have seen this too.....but the relis have to "uncreep it" when it gets too much

What a selfish arse he is. He is happy to have your sister doing manual work (that she normally charges £75 for) each week for almost nothing when he could just pay her or another cleaner. He has the means to pay professionals to help around the house and garden. He should be doing that instead of putting on you when you’re at a stage in your lives where your own families - his GC - need you.

I would have had to say something when he said that they aren’t ready for outside help yet. CF. That’s because you and your sister are doing all the heavy lifting for free! I would have no issue with helping family members if they needed it, but he doesn’t need it. He’s saving himself a few quid at your expense. Where’s the care and consideration coming back the other way? Your mum does need a level of personal care which I would be happy to provide in your shoes, but he can easily pay for general household help.

He’s obviously very entitled and will just put on you more and more unless you speak up. If you’re not happy with things you’re going to have to address it with him and maybe offer to help him engage some professional people to clean and do gardening etc.

Is your sister doing 5 hours cleaning every week? Because that is one hell of a commitment on top of her own family and job. How many hours are you putting in as well? Do you get to spend quality time with your family or are you always rushing to catch up/help your parents? I have DPs who are refusing to get in the help they need. They have had to give in to carers as dad can't dress himself now but they need help with cleaning and the garden and are stubbornly denying it. They can easily afford it and I live too far away to be able to do much, though I have spent a fair amount of time this summer gardening and cleaning out the pond. It's the constant refrain of "we can manage with the odd little bit of help" when DB is there for an hour or 2 virtually every day, largely looking for stuff they have mislaid or sorting out the chaos they have created in trying to manage. They won't buy in help as long as you and your DSis are doing everything because he will be convincing himself that they are managing "with the odd bit of help".

@CrimbleCrumble1

The thing is care for parents creeps up, the OP and her sister probably didn’t volunteer to do what they are now doing. What was once possibly a quick weekly visit turns into a daily visit or the five hour cleaning visit. I’ve seen this happen numerous times despite the elderly parents claiming attendance allowance and often carers allowance.

But then you need to learn to say "no" and arrange paid help of some kind. What you can't do is just keep volunteering your time then call people tight arses because they're not paying you.

I wouldn't (and haven't) ever expected my parents to pay me or dh for any help we've given them and I wouldn't accept it if they had offered.

@Coffeepants

This… If you’re doing it for the money then do the job for someone else. If you’re doing it cos they’re your parents, then it’s cheeky to expect to be paid for it at all. Sure they didn’t charge you and your sister for meals and boarding when you were children.

Ludicrous comparison. Parents aren't meant to charge their children for anything (unless they have an income and are living with them as adults) - they chose to have them!

Boggling amount of sanctimonious comments on this thread .

I would not wan't any money for the cleaning of a parents house. and most others wouldn't either. It's not about the money when you give help to elderly parents.

OP head on over to The Cockroach Café on the elderly parents board. You will find understanding ears there.

It’s the norm in my culture to look after elderly parents. And not to expect payment for it. I think it’s common in many places outside of the western society.

But also they do charge their adult children rent

Your DF needs to start helping himself and do stuff around the house. He is in good health you say, so why does he allow his daughter who works fulltime already to do so much? I can't comment on the money side of it, but he sounds like he needs to step up.

I was in a similar situation op.

DSF with multiple physical disabilities and DM with Alzheimer’s.

DSF is about as tight as you can get. He thinks nothing of asking someone to drive 30 miles, secure in the knowledge we would not ask for petrol money, to save a pound. He does not value other people’s time. He doesn’t like other people (who charge) in his house.

It was sorted out when we had a family meeting, with them, and decided that we were their children and would help, but we were note cleaners, professional shoppers, gardeners, handymen or gofers. They had the money and muct pay for support.

We were their children, who should be able to visit without being presented with situations that needed urgent solution, or to-do lists!

It is not perfect - but a lot better

I think the money is a red herring here and you're getting a lot of stick for it (of course, you have posted on AIBU, would recommend elderly parents in future for a gentler time ), but in reality this is about communication and boundaries. Of course your Dad was surprised when (to him) out of the blue you suggested he should be paying your sister going rates when as far as he knows (and you say yourself) she helps them 'out of love'! Of course they don't think they need outside help, they have you at their beck and call and you are happy to do so (so far as they know)!

Awkward and un-British though it is, you need to have a proper sit down conversation with him about how much help you and sister can realistically offer (and if you need to be paid for that time, how much) and what they are going to need to start paying for themselves. It's no good silently seething and waiting for him to realise this of his own accord, trust me I've been there and it will never happen. This isn't about putting your mum into a home and washing your hands of responsibility, quite the reverse, people usually manage best at home for longest where a sensible system of support including family help is put in place before family run themselves into the ground or a crisis occurs and this is only possible where everyone is able to have a sensible, open, non-blamey and guilt-trippy discussion about it. I know that's sometimes easier said than done and elderly people can be reluctant to admit how much help they actually need or to accept 'strangers' in the home but again they don't have to leap straight to full-on personal care, just having a cleaner, gardener, handy man or even taxi driver or a laundry service (for the latter ones they wouldn't even have to let someone past the front door) is an easy way to get used to accepting help and would massively ease the burden on you, so I think you really need to get them onto this idea now. Age concern have some really good services including vetted cleaners etc, so maybe a chat with them would help. If your dad starts on about your inheritance and not wanting to spend all his money I would counter with the idea that you would many times over prefer to enjoy the time you are able to spend together with them both, actually be able to spend time doing enjoyable things, maybe take them out or just sit and chat etc rather than having to be run off your feet with chores now and then have the money when they're gone...

We don’t ‘expect’ a financial reward and never have done, it’s just that my dad expects help and doesn’t appear to understand how much it actually takes it out of us, the worry and stress.
My dad will FaceTime or ring me most days stressing over something or other and asking for my help and of course I do it because I love my parents, I see how much he struggles with mums diagnosis. I have tried to get him help.
However, if either of us take a step back, which we have tried many times then things just do not get done. I have had him stressing because mum has no underwear or there are no fresh duvet covers only to find the dirty linen basket is brim full. I have said to him ‘why aren’t you doing the laundry dad, it’s a pretty simple task’ and he just threw his hands in the air with a ‘I can’t remember to do everything!’ I realise just how much my mum actually did until her dementia set in.
Absolutely, they need additional help but it gets refused. Dad refuses to except they need it, he would rather be down the shed than do housework. If it’s suggested to mum she breaks down and says if someone comes into her home she would rather be dead! I have arranged for social services to come and do a needs assessment but he keeps cancelling it saying perhaps in a few months, it’s early days yet.
It’s such a dilemma, we help because we can not see our parents live in squalor. We help because we love them and watching them struggle with Alzheimer’s is beyond heartbreaking.
We do not ask for any money but it would be nice for it to be offered once in a while to feel appreciated. My dad just doesn’t seem to see what we do for them, he really is blind to it.
If I were in the same position as my dad I know for a fact that I would show my appreciation with financial reward, regardless wether they expect it or not but that’s me, I’m generous with my time and money, many people are not.
I have just spent the afternoon taking mum out because I wanted to and because dad needed a few hours to himself, when we got back I said I needed to get back to my dc and he said ‘You do far too much for those kids!!’ He doesn’t see that I now have a set of ‘other’ kids to look after too.

I think you need to pull back a little back onthe practical help (you and DSIS) and offer to engage a cleaner for your dad (at his cost obvs). You will need to do so much for them to support in other ways that you need to enlist help where you can now.

@CrimbleCrumble1

The thing is care for parents creeps up, the OP and her sister probably didn’t volunteer to do what they are now doing. What was once possibly a quick weekly visit turns into a daily visit or the five hour cleaning visit. I’ve seen this happen numerous times despite the elderly parents claiming attendance allowance and often carers allowance.

100% this is exactly what happened. Thank you.

@countrygirl99

OP head on over to The Cockroach Café on the elderly parents board. You will find understanding ears there.

Thank you, I will do that.

I think OPs dad is putting too
much stress on his daughters.. I’m all for helping one’s parents but in this situation, they need to employ a carer and a cleaner and they can afford it, so they should. Frankly the time spent together is precious and having your daughter in 5-6 hours every week as your skivvy is a bit pointless

We're moving this thread to our Elderly Parents topic at the OP's request.

@Twoweekcruise

We don’t ‘expect’ a financial reward and never have done, it’s just that my dad expects help and doesn’t appear to understand how much it actually takes it out of us, the worry and stress. My dad will FaceTime or ring me most days stressing over something or other and asking for my help and of course I do it because I love my parents, I see how much he struggles with mums diagnosis. I have tried to get him help. However, if either of us take a step back, which we have tried many times then things just do not get done. I have had him stressing because mum has no underwear or there are no fresh duvet covers only to find the dirty linen basket is brim full. I have said to him ‘why aren’t you doing the laundry dad, it’s a pretty simple task’ and he just threw his hands in the air with a ‘I can’t remember to do everything!’ I realise just how much my mum actually did until her dementia set in. Absolutely, they need additional help but it gets refused. Dad refuses to except they need it, he would rather be down the shed than do housework. If it’s suggested to mum she breaks down and says if someone comes into her home she would rather be dead! I have arranged for social services to come and do a needs assessment but he keeps cancelling it saying perhaps in a few months, it’s early days yet. It’s such a dilemma, we help because we can not see our parents live in squalor. We help because we love them and watching them struggle with Alzheimer’s is beyond heartbreaking. We do not ask for any money but it would be nice for it to be offered once in a while to feel appreciated. My dad just doesn’t seem to see what we do for them, he really is blind to it. If I were in the same position as my dad I know for a fact that I would show my appreciation with financial reward, regardless wether they expect it or not but that’s me, I’m generous with my time and money, many people are not. I have just spent the afternoon taking mum out because I wanted to and because dad needed a few hours to himself, when we got back I said I needed to get back to my dc and he said ‘You do far too much for those kids!!’ He doesn’t see that I now have a set of ‘other’ kids to look after too.

You see this is so telling, you are really holding out for your Dad to 'see' and appreciate everything you do but it just doesn't sound like he will. I'm sorry. Armchair psychology incoming but it sounds as though he's had one woman do everything for him all his adult life and now he has another two doing it now his wife is incapacitated (my Dad was exactly the same), it's called 'learned helplessness'. You can say it's the way he was brought up, you can call him a selfish git or worse names, you can cry and rage at the unfairness but ultimately I doubt it will make a difference. If it helps I don't think it's that he doesn't care about you or love his wife and want to look after her, I really think men of this generation can get 'stuck', the way they were taught to show love and care was by providing financially and being 'strong' and 'stable' i.e. by showing minimal emotion except occasional angry outbursts, and being stoic in the face of difficulties (Robert Webb is very good on this in his semi-autobiography how to be a boy), and so faced with this sort of situation they can seem very shut down and disengaged from it.

I honestly would just try (I know it's hard) to put aside the emotion and focus in an unemotional way on the practicalities. Getting your parents to accept some help in whatever way is the thinnest end of the wedge would be what I'd do, I too faced huge opposition to any kind of SS involvement (stated reason = 'they'll put your mother in a home', I think real reason more complex and to do with shame and fear of the state interfering etc) but my parents did eventually accept a cleaner, gardener etc when told very bluntly that their home was getting to be uninhabitable and actively dangerous for mum so it was this or move to sheltered housing. Similarly the trigger for accepting someone to help with the gardening was when it apparently got too dangerous for their beloved pets to go out in, never mind their equally beloved DGC had been out there for years merrily playing . Slow trickle of more and more help being accepted got them used to the idea of having people around and spending money on it, and eventually they got very fond of their cleaner/helper and gardener and increased their hours of their own accord...

Good luck OP, really hope you sort it!

@Coffeepants

But also they do charge their adult children rent

So even if you do loads for them, they still charge rent if you live in to help them?

It was a response to post above that said children don’t ask to be born so parents are expected to provide for them. But that the reverse of taking care of aging parents doesn’t necessarily apply.