Told mum I'll go no contact if she cancels POA

[Morango]

I have been wrangling with my mother for years over getting a POA done. I have assured her it is for the future and needed to be done before a crisis occurred.
She refused for years to admit she had memory issues and has been quite horrible over the years.
Finally she agreed it was in her best interests and I made arrangements which included family members and I taking time off work and driving many hundreds of miles to do it.
We made sure she understood what she was signing and it took place in the home of a dear family friend whom she trusts and who acted as the certificate provider.
Now the OPG has written to all of us she has said I have done this behind her back and she is going to cancel it and I am only after her money.
When I reminded her of the circumstances of the signing she did start to recall and then admitted that I wasn't after her money.
I told her she was within her right to cancel it but that if she did I will have nothing further to do with her.
She is quite a horrible selfish person and part of me hopes she'll call my bluff.
Not sure why I'm posting about this but reaching out I suppose.

We have POA for my mum which we haven't activated yet as she has full capacity but is elderly and has limited mobility. I do have a mandate on her current account so I can write cheques, set up direct debits plus standing orders and also have a separate card. When she passes this will be cancelled as will any POA held. I am going to see the solicitors about the POA to see if we can activate the financial even though she has capacity. I understand some poa's allow for this depending on how they are drawn up.

@MrsClatterbuck

We have POA for my mum which we haven't activated yet as she has full capacity but is elderly and has limited mobility. I do have a mandate on her current account so I can write cheques, set up direct debits plus standing orders and also have a separate card. When she passes this will be cancelled as will any POA held. I am going to see the solicitors about the POA to see if we can activate the financial even though she has capacity. I understand some poa's allow for this depending on how they are drawn up.

The financial can be activated with her permission. The welfare not until she loses capacity. I had financial for my husband and it was so useful and my partner has for his parents who are so deaf they can't use a phone

Glad I've found you. I'm in a difficult situation but one similar to those I've read on this thread. My widowed mother of 93 has lived with us for 9 years. She is completely disabled and carers attend to help with personal hygiene and lunch while I'm working. We do breakfast, Eve meal and anything else she needs. My husband and teenagers are invaluable and a great buffer as my mother and I do not get on (long story. When widowed she refused to go into a home.

She wishes she was back in her old home (of course) but is just too disabled for that to be possible, hence the move to us. My father used to be her Carer. I have no siblings in the UK. My 1/2 brother and mother haven't spoken or seen each other for 40 years. He has little time for her or me although I've tried to help smooth things over between them. He now won't reply to emails and we last spoke 15 years ago. He's now 70 (not in any permanent relationship, no kids) I'm in early 50s).

The problem we have is that she refuses point blank to agree to poa. I've also tried to get her to give me authority (properly via bank) to access/operate her bank account as she is getting in a muddle dealing with bills/her finances. This is getting difficult with cheques (written inaccurately with shaky hand!) being returned, and her thinking she's paid things that she's not. If I could just get online banking set up I could operate this on her behalf in her presence. She's very untrusting and just refuses.

I'm thinking of just refusing to help any more - at the moment I spend time sorting out these muddles and/or paying things on her behalf. She then gives me her card to take cash out to reimburse myself (!)

This kind of works but I'm concerned for the future if she needs a more care or needs to go into a home/has a stroke etc. We do not have the funds to pay for a nursing home. I can't manage that sort of scenario by taking money out using her card! It really is not great.

Given she's in her 90s I feel we need to resolve this. I've called her solicitor - they are willing to talk to her but I suspect she simply will not listen (literally- she's very very deaf).

Sorry this is so long, I feel better for writing it all!

P

I think that if you have a difficult relationship with parents then the POA should be joint with a trusted friend of theirs. To hand over decision making to someone else is a huge decision and not to be taken lightly. When elderly people really start to struggle at home, the majority of family, particularly those living at a distance, are quite keen for the person to move to residential care so that they do not have to worry about them. This is not always the right decision for the person but if family have POA , they get to decide. It is a huge responsibility and personally I think it is best shared. This can make decisions more difficult but at least you know they have been discussed thoroughly and thought through.

The problem is that my mother has no such friends. she became difficult and reclusive with middle age and this meant there was literally no one after my df died. I'm hoping her solicitor can help. All other family now dead too. There's just me and DH. her bank card is about to expire and she is too deaf to validate new one and won't let me help. (I want to get hearing aid people to visit her for new hearing aids but she refuses).

Pennina You have my sympathies. I think you should just assume the bank card route is as good as it’s going to get. I would be putting your energy into validating the new one. Does her bank provide services for deaf customers? My parents refused to give POA. It was only when my DM got sectioned that my DF realised we would be in a mess. At that point he passed us his bank card and gave us permission to withdraw cash. He died however within six weeks unexpectedly. I’d be withdrawing cash on her behalf several times a week to provide for the bills.

I've been very clear with my mum all along that the POA is so that she can make the decisions but I can reassure her, match things up and do legwork. She regularly panics that she has no money left and and having access to her bank account means I can alleviate that panic. She still has full access etc but we can stop that if she becomes so impaired that it's an unreasonable risk. I'm bloody lucky that she's so reasonable most of the time and that we have a good relationship. Also being frank about the fact that she's forgetful is important but as she gets worse she's resisting that more. It's shit and only going to get worse.

The financial can be activated with her permission. - provided the right box was ticked on the form

Is the LPA finances and property in place and agrees already? That's key...

Or has she challenged it having received the letter of notification of LPA application? - there is not much you can do as she is torpedoing the application

If it is in place and she has lost capacity, become paranoid and forgetful then you can ask GP to do capacity assessment and ask for support.

If as you Indicate, this is your mother with capacity being difficult then she has wasted £300-400 of her own money for the original court fees. And it will cost her far more in the future if or when she loses capacity to have a deputy arranged which can take many many months

Of course you can say "enough, I offered to help spent all that time on your instructions & why did you do this?"

However,
If a capacitated person writes to OPG to withdraw an LPA appointment , there is nothing further that can be done. It is a Mike drop moment

I agree with longhours

If your mum has capacity then she has made a very unwise decision to undo the LPA finances and property as you were trying to help and now she will have no one. (Unless she has someone else in mind!)

You can't fix your mums strange choices that are detrimental to herself if she has capacity to do so.

You can take a big step back

But I hope you don't go NC because of this . Of course she will need you in the future and you can set limits as to what you will worry about or what you are prepared to do. It doesn't have to be All or Nothing in response to a silly decision she made

@longhours yes it is the notification from the OPG she is proposing to respond to.

She was furious that I had "gone behind her back" and done it without her consent.

I reminded her of the circumstances of it being signed and it did appear to come back to her.

We signed it at the home of her most trusted friend who also served as certificate provider. She was borderline capacity then but has possibly crossed the line now.

As it turns out she called this trusted friend a few days ago and he and his wife visited her. She told him she was going to respond to the OPG and he asked to see the letter. He has now asked her to consult with him before she makes any response and she will because she sees him as her "advisor".

He called me to tell me this. She doesn't know we are in touch but he has her best interests at heart and is very much in favour of the POA staying in place.

She won't have wasted her own money though as I paid for it out of my savings.

I have drawn a firm boundary with her now though and am going to see her this weekend. Faced with the boundaries I am setting (refuse to be spoken to abusively; refusal to become her carer by the back door whilst she denies there's a problem) she appears to be backing down.

This weekend I'm going to see if I can set up an online shopping account with her card so that she can call and give me a list and I'm going to tell her that if she keeps shouting at social services they will have her in a home sharpish.

I have drawn a firm boundary with her now though and am going to see her this weekend. Faced with the boundaries I am setting (refuse to be spoken to abusively; refusal to become her carer by the back door whilst she denies there's a problem) she appears to be backing down.

I think this is a very important point, to have boundaries to avoid being manipulated into unsustainable and intolerable situations.
You have a right to a life too.
Mine only started hugging me and telling me she loved me when she needed me after her husband died. 60 years too late to be believable.

That's interesting mine is also telling me that she loves me sooo much.
I told her that her abusive phone calls don't feel like love.

My mother has started saying "I love you" at the end of every phone call. Very odd as she's never said that to me as a teenager or as an adult. Maybe she thinks it needs to be said. Heaven knows but it's very odd now

Increased emotional lability (heightened feelings) is an oft recognised feature of dementia. My Dad had it.

FWIW I think you have done exactly the right thing, OP. You are allowed to (and should) protect yourself with boundaries. I’m glad she has this trusted friend; I hope they can help her file the letter away and then she’ll probably forget all about it.

It’s tough, I’m sorry.

Update today is that she's gone ahead and objected. I am devastated after all that effort and it's all been undone.

She has no idea how much harder things are going to be now. This was the one thing that would have helped and she's destroyed it.

No doubt if I talk to her about it she'll say "let's set it up again then" but I just can't keep going round this merry-go-round.

I think you need to protect yourself and step back a bit here, like you said you would.

@OhamIreally can you object to her changing it on the basis that she won't remember and will change it again?
Ie that her memory issues are now affecting her judgement.
So frustrating, I really feel for you

@OhamIreally

Update today is that she's gone ahead and objected. I am devastated after all that effort and it's all been undone.

She has no idea how much harder things are going to be now. This was the one thing that would have helped and she's destroyed it.

No doubt if I talk to her about it she'll say "let's set it up again then" but I just can't keep going round this merry-go-round.

(You've name changed, OP!)

How frustrating for you. Have you spoken to the friend that was promising to be 'advisor'?

Thing is, ultimatums are all very well but if they can't remember much they don't really have much power

That is really sad and difficult to deal with OP. I know it is hard but you have to remember that this is not your real mum anymore. This is the person that Alzheimer’s has turned her into.

We did the same with my dad when he was in the very early stages and he had the wherewithall to ask us why it was just him getting one and not mam. As a result they both got one in the end which is no harm.

I know all cases and families are different but I would just say "go easy" on her. Hopefully her friends will step up on your behalf.

I know it is difficult with someone that has Alzheimers. My Mum was a bit paranoid but my brother and I managed to get them sorted before my parents decline in health.

Does Mum understand that just because there is a POA you can't just go and take the money? You have to register this POA everywhere. I had to send it to the council just to talk to them about my Dad's rented garage.

So even though it may be registered with the OPG it could stay at your Mum's house until you have to use it.

It is such a difficult chapter for the family but the pain that it causes if you don't have them in place is an absolute nightmare.

Good luck, this is not an easy time for anyone.

Sorry - I was referring to a power of attorney.

Yes sorry I name changed to my normal username.

@BetterCare that's exactly what I thought and why I wanted it set up before she declined too much.

I frankly don't want to have to deal with the nightmares- I've got enough on my plate as it is, working full time, mortgage and bills and my child to raise alone.

I'd imagine you are at the end of your tether with this news.